Bloodwork high estro help

demonfox

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so i just got my bloodwork back. i got the bloodwork done yesterday, which is about close to a month after my 4 week nolva pct and 3 weeks after aromasin.
i dont know why my estro is so high. only side effects ive been feeling is lethargy and bloating. i have pubertal gyno so i cant tell if the high estro is doing anything to my already existing gyno. but i dont have any soreness, lump or itchiness. all i have is just puffy, fatty nips.

my cycle was 7 weeks of 330mg of 1-andro and epiandro. i did 2 weeks of alpha 1 weeks 5-6 as well.

heres my results
lab.JPG


i do have nolva and aromasin on hand. please let me know what you guys think i should do
 
pogue

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What all are you taking currently? Both supplements and drugs.
 

demonfox

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Only thing I'm taking right now is creatine and whey.
 
AustBenny

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I guess what they call rebound estro. What was your cycle?
 
JeremyNG25

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Let others chime in because I'm certainly no expert on estrogen control but obviously you need to get your estrogen back down...so I think the Arimidex would be a good place to start or maybe use something OTC like SNS inhibit E that way you won't have to worry about estro rebound from coming off of the Arimidex. I'm confused as to why estro rebounds and how to eliminate that possibility. I'll be following along because there must be a way to stop estro rebound
 

demonfox

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i did use aromasin during pct to reduce the chances of estro rebound. i kinda tried to taper off the last week taking it every other day, so may be i shouldnt have done that and kept taking aromasin everyday.
either way, ive started taking aromasin again. 12.5mg ed. ill take it for 2 weeks straight. but the thing is i dont know if ill be able to tell the difference because right now, if i hadnt done the blood test, i wouldnt know that my estro was high cause i dont see that much of a symptom of high estro. like i mentioned, i already have pubertal gyno and i havent seen my gyno get worse or any hard lumps or itchiness. only thing i am seeing is a bit lethargy (but it could be because of my school and lack of sleep) and bloating.
 
NoAddedHmones

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so i just got my bloodwork back. i got the bloodwork done yesterday, which is about close to a month after my 4 week nolva pct and 3 weeks after aromasin.
i dont know why my estro is so high. only side effects ive been feeling is lethargy and bloating. i have pubertal gyno so i cant tell if the high estro is doing anything to my already existing gyno. but i dont have any soreness, lump or itchiness. all i have is just puffy, fatty nips.

my cycle was 7 weeks of 330mg of 1-andro and epiandro. i did 2 weeks of alpha 1 weeks 5-6 as well.

heres my results
View attachment 125652

i do have nolva and aromasin on hand. please let me know what you guys think i should do
you got baseline bloods prior to cycle?
 

demonfox

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i already mentioned it in my initial post "my cycle was 7 weeks of 330mg of 1-andro and epiandro. i did 2 weeks of alpha 1 weeks 5-6 as well"
 
AustBenny

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Sorry man, so you did - I missed it. My eyes were drawn to the bloodwork just below it.

Nothing in that cycle I could point to, other PH like epistane are well known for rebound gyno but the andros are pretty mild - maybe the 1AD but that was only a couple weeks.

Probably someone smarter can chime in but it might just be one of those things man. Sounds like you did everything right.
 
JeremyNG25

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No the 1 ad and epiandrosterone don't aromatize. By alpha 1 do you mean methyl 1 Alpha? Again none of these compounds should convert to estrogen not even the methyl 1 Alpha
 

demonfox

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i used alpha1max by bsl. i believe its methyl1ad. in any case, i didnt see any high estro issues in cycle. and now im 4 weeks past my pct and im seeing high estro.
for high estro, doesnt it mean that it converted from test so for me to have high estro, i would also have to have high test in the first place? but my test level is in the normal range.
 
pogue

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Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Your HTPA is getting back into full swing and as long as your testosterone levels are in a good range, which they are, then it's no problem. As long as you aren't experiencing estrogenic side effects then you're good. Just give it some time and get another blood test in maybe 6 weeks and go from there. Estrogen isn't overly detrimental to muscle gain or anything unless your testosterone was really low.

I came across this when looking up something for another poster, and this is an oldie but a goodie, recommended read:
http://mindandmuscle.net/articles/understanding-post-cylce-t-recovery/
 
machinehead

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I will post cliffs first, then explain how I got to them, then summarize them again.

Cliffs:

-your free/active cortisol and thyroid hormones together determine your cell metabolism
-the speed of your cell metabolism determines how much testosterone the cells can take
-if the cells can't take all the free/active testosterone, the body takes action to 'dump' the testosterone either via increasing SHBG, or increasing conversion to estrogens and other androgens (E2, DHT, whatever) or increasing excretion from the body (liver, kidneys), or a combination of all 3 but the first two are most easily measurable
-taking exogenous androgens not only suppresses gonadotropins but also leads to a decreased production of substrates for testosterone, starting from pregnenolone all the way to androstenedione

Out of those, only the last conclusion is my own. I'll get to it at the end

The cortisol and thyroid metabolism (or turnover, or free/active levels of hormones) effect on everything else is not my idea, kudos goes to someone who goes by chilln at a famous male health forum. Just google "chilln pregnenolone" and read to your heart's content.

The observation is that as metabolism of cortisol and thyroid go down, so does that of all other hormones but we are mainly interested in testosterone and its metabolites. The reason for the decrease could be genetic, environmental, exogenously-androgenic :), anything really, and if you want to restore what he calls "youthful levels" of testosterone, you have to restore cortisol and thyroid first. If you don't, the test you inject or the test you force your body to produce via, say, a combo of a SERM and an AI, will not result in increased testosterone metabolism but instead the test would be dumped to E2 and/or DHT or it will be dealt with via an increase in SHBG.

What I think happened here is the first scenario. And why I think it happened is because cortisol metabolism was suppressed from androgen use (less conversion to pregnenolone etc) and is yet to come back. The giveaway from me is the lethargy and bloat the OP mentions. I read that as low cortisol and aldosterone, but maybe I'm biased ;)

If read the cycle logs on here you'd see a lot of mentions of lethargy. That is also true on compounds that are not harsh on the liver. It is my personal conclusion that this is due to the drop in cortisol. Those who add Dermacrine get better, it has a tiny bit of pregnenolone but it maybe just enough to keep the boat from sinking.

With all that said, the OP may wait and see what happens, or try chilln's protocol for transdermal pregnenolone to boost his cortisol and therefore his cortsiol metabolism and (assuming thyroid is ok as I wanted to keep this short) as a result his testosterone metabolism which will remove the reasons for the body to get rid of the test it sees as redundant if not harmful by converting it to E2.

I wrote something up here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/261968-anxiety-how-help-19.html#post5099137

If you wanted to do that, start low, maybe 20mg a couple times a day and see how it goes without changing anything else! You can top off your pregnenolone and cortisol without causing suppression, very much unlike testosterone where any exogenous androgen you put in and you are shut down, it is only a matter of time, not amount. Once you feel so much energy you can jump over cars in motion, you know your cortisol metabolism is good. Good luck
 
123abcabcabc

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OP get some Letro.

Make sure you taper off...
 

demonfox

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I will post cliffs first, then explain how I got to them, then summarize them again.

Cliffs:

-your free/active cortisol and thyroid hormones together determine your cell metabolism
-the speed of your cell metabolism determines how much testosterone the cells can take
-if the cells can't take all the free/active testosterone, the body takes action to 'dump' the testosterone either via increasing SHBG, or increasing conversion to estrogens and other androgens (E2, DHT, whatever) or increasing excretion from the body (liver, kidneys), or a combination of all 3 but the first two are most easily measurable
-taking exogenous androgens not only suppresses gonadotropins but also leads to a decreased production of substrates for testosterone, starting from pregnenolone all the way to androstenedione

Out of those, only the last conclusion is my own. I'll get to it at the end

The cortisol and thyroid metabolism (or turnover, or free/active levels of hormones) effect on everything else is not my idea, kudos goes to someone who goes by chilln at a famous male health forum. Just google "chilln pregnenolone" and read to your heart's content.

The observation is that as metabolism of cortisol and thyroid go down, so does that of all other hormones but we are mainly interested in testosterone and its metabolites. The reason for the decrease could be genetic, environmental, exogenously-androgenic :), anything really, and if you want to restore what he calls "youthful levels" of testosterone, you have to restore cortisol and thyroid first. If you don't, the test you inject or the test you force your body to produce via, say, a combo of a SERM and an AI, will not result in increased testosterone metabolism but instead the test would be dumped to E2 and/or DHT or it will be dealt with via an increase in SHBG.

What I think happened here is the first scenario. And why I think it happened is because cortisol metabolism was suppressed from androgen use (less conversion to pregnenolone etc) and is yet to come back. The giveaway from me is the lethargy and bloat the OP mentions. I read that as low cortisol and aldosterone, but maybe I'm biased ;)

If read the cycle logs on here you'd see a lot of mentions of lethargy. That is also true on compounds that are not harsh on the liver. It is my personal conclusion that this is due to the drop in cortisol. Those who add Dermacrine get better, it has a tiny bit of pregnenolone but it maybe just enough to keep the boat from sinking.

With all that said, the OP may wait and see what happens, or try chilln's protocol for transdermal pregnenolone to boost his cortisol and therefore his cortsiol metabolism and (assuming thyroid is ok as I wanted to keep this short) as a result his testosterone metabolism which will remove the reasons for the body to get rid of the test it sees as redundant if not harmful by converting it to E2.

I wrote something up here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplements/261968-anxiety-how-help-19.html#post5099137

If you wanted to do that, start low, maybe 20mg a couple times a day and see how it goes without changing anything else! You can top off your pregnenolone and cortisol without causing suppression, very much unlike testosterone where any exogenous androgen you put in and you are shut down, it is only a matter of time, not amount. Once you feel so much energy you can jump over cars in motion, you know your cortisol metabolism is good. Good luck
Do you think having a slow metabolism can affect this? Because I've always had a slow ass metabolism. I can easily gain weight with small amount of food.
So do you think since my metabolism is slow, it affects the metabolism of cortisol and hence the turnover of test to estro?
 
machinehead

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The other way around. Your low cortisol and thyroid metabolism is making your overall metabolism slow.
 

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