Lethargy

datsthat

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My first cycle (ostar1ne) is currently scheduled upcoming January. I was wondering if the lethargic feeling on osta is similar to the feeling of low to no carb on a cut? What about legend? Is the lethargy similar to osta? I will combat with dermicrine, but just wanted to get an idea. Thanks
 
overanalyzer

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I ran Osta as a bridge into DMZ and had no lethargy issues on it. I wish I could have said the same about DMZ. Totally worth it though BC I gained 12lbs on the DMZ. Anyways...I digress...You shouldn't have any lethargy on Osta, I can't speak for Legend.
 
datsthat

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I ran Osta as a bridge into DMZ and had no lethargy issues on it. I wish I could have said the same about DMZ. Totally worth it though BC I gained 12lbs on the DMZ. Anyways...I digress...You shouldn't have any lethargy on Osta, I can't speak for Legend.
Thanks. I ended up getting a bottle of Legend. What about the lethargy on DMZ? Was it similar to low or no carb while on a cut? I am trying to understand what this lethargy I've been hearing about and the only thing I can relate to at the moment is how I felt during some of time during my previous cut.
 
overanalyzer

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The best way I can explain lethargy is just a lack of motivation to wake up/workout. I guess you could say that it could be compared to a low carb diet, only the tired feeling doesn't leave you after your body adjusts.
 

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Lethargy is usually due to lack of test and liver distress. It's an extreme tiredness. On my Dmz/diabolix cycle I could easily sleep for 14 or 15 hours and still take naps. I pretty much would fall asleep anytime I sat down
 
yates84

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Yes, and I've had blood work proving it. It's not extremely harsh but it did raise my ALT/AST around 30-40 points and bilruben slightly.
Could any other variables have factored in to those increases? Those are very unusual increases.
 
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Could any other variables have factored in to those increases? Those are very unusual increases.
No I don't think so. Still I'd rather be running cycle supports on orals anabolics no matter what they are. Not good to find out in the middle of a cycle how poorly you react to a certain compound. Everyone reacts differently as far as the individual toxicity to your specific body chemistry.
 
yates84

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No I don't think so. Still I'd rather be running cycle supports on orals anabolics no matter what they are. Not good to find out in the middle of a cycle how poorly you react to a certain compound. Everyone reacts differently as far as the individual toxicity to your specific body chemistry.
Very true!
 
medinacirilo

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When I ran Osta last winter, I felt mild lethargy and pressure behind my eyes. This happened every Monday and Tuesday when I would up the dosage (I went 10,15,20,25,25,25). I truly believe it made me carb-sensitive, like when I (tried) to do the Atkins thing years ago
 
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Yes, and I've had blood work proving it. It's not extremely harsh but it did raise my ALT/AST around 30-40 points and bilruben slightly. I'd use some TUDCA and Cycle Assist by CEL.
Were you on any support supplements then? Tbol didn't even raise my values half as much as that.
 
Chrisko

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Can any of the OL reps inform me of the negative side effects of osta or legend? Once again as stated in other posts, I am receiving a lot of conflicting information.

I believe I will always run a cycle assist or support product with any type of supp that effects the hormones such as Sarms or any other anabolic compound in hopes of protecting my organs. However I have never taken any form of sarm and there is not a lot known about them. For instance you know that methylated pro hormones are liver toxic because of the alkylation of various atoms but oral hormones that are not such as furuza are not as toxic. It was said by t-bone that it is liver toxic and had bloods to prove his personal experience but others say that it is not.

I am just looking for as much information that I can get on the products that I have already purchased. And I figured that an actual OL rep could answer some of these questions and provide me with some info.
 
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One has been posting in this thread yates84

And I'm running OL LeGenD and am 26 days in and haven't felt any lethargy. Hopefully I won't encounter any.
 
yates84

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Can any of the OL reps inform me of the negative side effects of osta or legend? Once again as stated in other posts, I am receiving a lot of conflicting information.

I believe I will always run a cycle assist or support product with any type of supp that effects the hormones such as Sarms or any other anabolic compound in hopes of protecting my organs. However I have never taken any form of sarm and there is not a lot known about them. For instance you know that methylated pro hormones are liver toxic because of the alkylation of various atoms but oral hormones that are not such as furuza are not as toxic. It was said by t-bone that it is liver toxic and had bloods to prove his personal experience but others say that it is not.

I am just looking for as much information that I can get on the products that I have already purchased. And I figured that an actual OL rep could answer some of these questions and provide me with some info.
Potential side effects:
Lethargy
Negative impact on cholesterol levels
Hpta shutdown
Gyno
Increased blood pressure

Cycle support is never a bad idea when using any sarm/ph/ds. Keep an ai like exemestane on hand and always use a serm in your pct. Time on + pct = time off. Follow these basic rules and you should be gtg
 
yates84

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Can any of the OL reps inform me of the negative side effects of osta or legend? Once again as stated in other posts, I am receiving a lot of conflicting information.

I believe I will always run a cycle assist or support product with any type of supp that effects the hormones such as Sarms or any other anabolic compound in hopes of protecting my organs. However I have never taken any form of sarm and there is not a lot known about them. For instance you know that methylated pro hormones are liver toxic because of the alkylation of various atoms but oral hormones that are not such as furuza are not as toxic. It was said by t-bone that it is liver toxic and had bloods to prove his personal experience but others say that it is not.

I am just looking for as much information that I can get on the products that I have already purchased. And I figured that an actual OL rep could answer some of these questions and provide me with some info.
Potential side effects:
Lethargy
Negative impact on cholesterol levels
Hpta shutdown
Gyno
Increased blood pressure

Cycle support is never a bad idea when using any sarm/ph/ds. Keep an ai like exemestane on hand and always use a serm in your pct. Time on + pct = time off. Follow these basic rules and you should be gtg
 
T-Bone

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Can any of the OL reps inform me of the negative side effects of osta or legend? Once again as stated in other posts, I am receiving a lot of conflicting information.

I believe I will always run a cycle assist or support product with any type of supp that effects the hormones such as Sarms or any other anabolic compound in hopes of protecting my organs. However I have never taken any form of sarm and there is not a lot known about them. For instance you know that methylated pro hormones are liver toxic because of the alkylation of various atoms but oral hormones that are not such as furuza are not as toxic. It was said by t-bone that it is liver toxic and had bloods to prove his personal experience but others say that it is not.

I am just looking for as much information that I can get on the products that I have already purchased. And I figured that an actual OL rep could answer some of these questions and provide me with some info.
There are levels of toxicity. Ostarine isn't as liver toxic as other compounds but it still has a negative effect on the liver. Overall it's pretty safe compared to a lot of products. Just take some support supplements, TUDCA and some NAC and you'll be fine.
 
Chrisko

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Potential side effects:
Lethargy
Negative impact on cholesterol levels
Hpta shutdown
Gyno
Increased blood pressure

Cycle support is never a bad idea when using any sarm/ph/ds. Keep an ai like exemestane on hand and always use a serm in your pct. Time on + pct = time off. Follow these basic rules and you should be gtg
You don't think arimistane will suffice as an AI? And what would be the cause of gyno? Is it your own test converting or a raise in prolactin?
 
Chrisko

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There are levels of toxicity. Ostarine isn't as liver toxic as other compounds but it still has a negative effect on the liver. Overall it's pretty safe compared to a lot of products. Just take some support supplements, TUDCA and some NAC and you'll be fine.
That sucks donkey dick. I do love my occasional beer or glass of red with a steak.
 
Chrisko

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Also I have asked in the female section hoping that a female would get back to me with some user experience but what about female usage? A lot are touting osta as the go to choice next to anavar. Are there any precautions that a female would have to take when using it such as while on the pill or is there such a thing as a female pct?
 
Hercules1982

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My first cycle (ostar1ne) is currently scheduled upcoming January. I was wondering if the lethargic feeling on osta is similar to the feeling of low to no carb on a cut? What about legend? Is the lethargy similar to osta? I will combat with dermicrine, but just wanted to get an idea. Thanks
I did an Osta/11-andro/LGD cutting cycle this summer, and had mild lethargy. Not sure though if this was due to these compounds, and/or "crashes" in between the caffeine/yohimbine doses that I used to amplify my results (as well as running 50-100 grams of carbs per day).
 
Hercules1982

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Potential side effects:
Lethargy
Negative impact on cholesterol levels
Hpta shutdown
Gyno
Increased blood pressure

Cycle support is never a bad idea when using any sarm/ph/ds. Keep an ai like exemestane on hand and always use a serm in your pct. Time on + pct = time off. Follow these basic rules and you should be gtg
Did anyone ever report getting gyno from using Osta????
 
yates84

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You don't think arimistane will suffice as an AI? And what would be the cause of gyno? Is it your own test converting or a raise in prolactin?
Gyno would be caused by your own test aromatizing. The androgen receptor is occupied by the osta so your natural test is left to turn into estrogen. Not very common but it does happen. I would have exemestane on hand, armistane is not going to be strong enough to handle any potential gyno that could come up
 
Jebrook

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Also I have asked in the female section hoping that a female would get back to me with some user experience but what about female usage? A lot are touting osta as the go to choice next to anavar. Are there any precautions that a female would have to take when using it such as while on the pill or is there such a thing as a female pct?
I did read in a thread on here a while ago about dangers of conception while using Osta. I have no idea if there are any contraindications with birth control. sanmarino was the one who made the statements about pregnancy concerns if I recall correctly. If I can dig up the thread I will link it. I do know many female forum users have used Osta successfully. love2liftkat could offer some anecdotes from a female perspective. Also, I believe she had a log of it somewhere.
 
Chrisko

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Gyno would be caused by your own test aromatizing. The androgen receptor is occupied by the osta so your natural test is left to turn into estrogen. Not very common but it does happen. I would have exemestane on hand, armistane is not going to be strong enough to handle any potential gyno that could come up
So I am assuming the risks of gyno are the same with LGD?
 
Chrisko

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I did read in a thread on here a while ago about dangers of conception while using Osta. I have no idea if there are any contraindications with birth control. sanmarino was the one who made the statements about pregnancy concerns if I recall correctly. If I can dig up the thread I will link it. I do know many female forum users have used Osta successfully. love2liftkat could offer some anecdotes from a female perspective. Also, I believe she had a log of it somewhere.
I did read that thread and will have to do a little more searching to find her run. Love2liftkat did reach out to me in the female forum and stated that she ran a test booster and e some sort of estro regulator.
 
Chrisko

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Someone also advised though that females do not need a pct, even though she technically ran an OTC one. She also never did bloods either though.
 
yates84

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So I am assuming the risks of gyno are the same with LGD?
Yep. I've never heard of anyone getting gyno from lgd but it is definitely a possibility
 
datsthat

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Gyno would be caused by your own test aromatizing. The androgen receptor is occupied by the osta so your natural test is left to turn into estrogen. Not very common but it does happen. I would have exemestane on hand, armistane is not going to be strong enough to handle any potential gyno that could come up
So I should pick up exemestane on top of already having clomid?
And to only use exemestane during PCT if estrogen issues arise that clomid isn't able to control such as tender nipples?
And immediately stop exemestane once estrogen issues subsides?
 
datsthat

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I did read in a thread on here a while ago about dangers of conception while using Osta. I have no idea if there are any contraindications with birth control. sanmarino was the one who made the statements about pregnancy concerns if I recall correctly. If I can dig up the thread I will link it. I do know many female forum users have used Osta successfully. love2liftkat could offer some anecdotes from a female perspective. Also, I believe she had a log of it somewhere.
What about dangers of getting my wife pregnant? Any issues with birth defects while on osta or lgd?
 
datsthat

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I don't think these types of products have been around long enough to know about that.
Thanks you. I guess I'll have to arm my dude with body armor before entering war zone
 
Gutterpump

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That sucks donkey dick. I do love my occasional beer or glass of red with a steak.
This is absolutely fine. You might not want to slam down 12 beer while on something though. Just use moderation.
 
sanmarino

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I did read in a thread on here a while ago about dangers of conception while using Osta. I have no idea if there are any contraindications with birth control. sanmarino was the one who made the statements about pregnancy concerns if I recall correctly. If I can dig up the thread I will link it. I do know many female forum users have used Osta successfully. love2liftkat could offer some anecdotes from a female perspective. Also, I believe she had a log of it somewhere.
Back on AM. Had a lot of works to do.

Please inform yourself on Ostarine as a Bicalutamide-derivative. I wrote a lot about that in this forum. Bicalutamide is a teratogenic substance which may have (yes, may, it was never tested on pregnant woman, because of ethical and legal reasons).
Of cause Ostarine works well on woman, I also know some woman, who used and are using Ostarine in dosage range from 5mg/ed to 10mg/ed. The main problem would be the fact, that one of these women want to build up a family and getting pregnant.

I also hope for all the testsubjects, that Ostarine don't have any teratogenic side effects, but Bicalutamide has. And the fact that Ostarine is literally based on Bicalutamide doesn't make the whole stuff comfy.

So, if you are a woman:
- which is able to have a child (e.g. age) and want to have a child; stay away from Bicalutamide-derivatives like Ostarine and S-4. There is LGD and RAD-140 (watch out, at the moment still Phase 0, Phase I planned soon) to misuse for muscle growth.
- which is not able to have a child anymore or is SURE not to have a child (please, be very sure and don't act too fast), you "may" use Bicalutamide-derivatives.

Don't take this as a final word, it's only a good meant advice. None of use - even the researchers - know the long term (side) effects of these substances. And some pounds of muscles are definitely not worth for taking the risks for a deformed child.
 
T-Bone

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Back on AM. Had a lot of works to do.

Please inform yourself on Ostarine as a Bicalutamide-derivative. I wrote a lot about that in this forum. Bicalutamide is a teratogenic substance which may have (yes, may, it was never tested on pregnant woman, because of ethical and legal reasons).
Of cause Ostarine works well on woman, I also know some woman, who used and are using Ostarine in dosage range from 5mg/ed to 10mg/ed. The main problem would be the fact, that one of these women want to build up a family and getting pregnant.

I also hope for all the testsubjects, that Ostarine don't have any teratogenic side effects, but Bicalutamide has. And the fact that Ostarine is literally based on Bicalutamide doesn't make the whole stuff comfy.

So, if you are a woman:
- which is able to have a child (e.g. age) and want to have a child; stay away from Bicalutamide-derivatives like Ostarine and S-4. There is LGD and RAD-140 (watch out, at the moment still Phase 0, Phase I planned soon) to misuse for muscle growth.
- which is not able to have a child anymore or is SURE not to have a child (please, be very sure and don't act too fast), you "may" use Bicalutamide-derivatives.

Don't take this as a final word, it's only a good meant advice. None of use - even the researchers - know the long term (side) effects of these substances. And some pounds of muscles are definitely not worth for taking the risks for a deformed child.
That's good info. I think some people jump the gun on these products and take them without a care in the world. There are some females on here that took or are taking it and wonder if they considered this. Ostarine that is.
 
pogue

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Chrisko: Only way you're going to know how it effects you is if you get blood work done mid cycle.

Gyno would be caused by your own test aromatizing. The androgen receptor is occupied by the osta so your natural test is left to turn into estrogen. Not very common but it does happen. I would have exemestane on hand, armistane is not going to be strong enough to handle any potential gyno that could come up
What makes you say one particular AI isn't going to be strong enough while on a SARM?
 
Jebrook

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This is why I tagged SanMarino because he is the only one I've heard mention this. I almost let my wife try Osta but this has stopped us because we are still making our family.
 
sanmarino

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This is why I tagged SanMarino because he is the only one I've heard mention this. I almost let my wife try Osta but this has stopped us because we are still making our family.
Wise decision. There are much better options (lower dosed LGD (or in combination with MK-677) would be the next best thing).
And good luck, Jebrook :D
 
Jebrook

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Wise decision. There are much better options (lower dosed LGD (or in combination with MK-677) would be the next best thing).
And good luck, Jebrook :D
Thank you friend. We already have two. We let nature take its course so who knows how many we will have. She's young. I'm old. But I'm virile;)
 
thatguy1234

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Wise decision. There are much better options (lower dosed LGD (or in combination with MK-677) would be the next best thing).
And good luck, Jebrook :D
very interesting. so this molecule that osta is derived from, it can cause permanent damage to the uterus only or also the male organs?
 
sanmarino

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very interesting. so this molecule that osta is derived from, it can cause permanent damage to the uterus only or also the male organs?
This is a good question. While Ostarine shouldn't be generally used by women (see my post above about the "exceptions") men are a special case.
While impregnation by the man, Ostarine should be used actually or should be used more than three months ago. You will find also the statement in the studies (especially in the older one, in the newer ones only women where testsubjects (and yes, they are not "allowed" getting pregnant during the studies. I will paste here some quotes)), that men have to - at least for three months after the last Ostarine application - prevent during sexual activities.

Why?
Men should also try as much as possible to avoid impregnating anyone while taking Bicalutamide, as it may have harmful effects on the fetus.
As you know, fire and water or electricity and water doesn't fit well together. And a teratogenic substance combined with sperms (liked to a pregnancy) also doesn't fit that well. Sperm in men is going to refresh itself (by sexual activities or masturbation). The researchers selected a time period, in which 99.99% of all the possibly damaged sperm were renewed (talking in statistical language there is never a 100% possibility, nor a 0% by the way).

The feminine testsubjects had to fulfill following condition:
Negative pregnancy test in woman of childbearing potential, [...] no more than 7 days before the first dose of study treatment.
For women of childbearing potential who are sexually active, agreement of use a highly effectice, non-hormonal form of contraception during and for at least 6 months after completion of study treatment; OR, a fertile male partner willing and able to use effective non-hormonal of contraception [...] during and for at least 6 months after completion after study treatment
In another study about Ostarine, also men were accepted as testsubjects. The condition - to take part at the studies - were:
FEMALE - age > or = 30 years and clinically confirmed as postmenopausal. [...]
MALE - age > or = 30 years. Subjects must agree to use a double barrier method of contraception during the study and for 3 months after study completion. This may include the following: condom + spermicide or condom + oral hormonal contraception
And as a reminder: for eight years now the studies about Ostarine were ongoig. And nothing changed concerning the Bicalutamide-story. If Ostarine as a Bicalutamide-derivative were not that dangerous, the conditions (for getting accepted as testsubject) must have changed.

But it has not.

As a personal advice: as a men, don't impregnate a woman while on Ostarine or less than 12 weeks after the cycle. There are other non-Bicalutamide-substances who don't act like the Bicalutamide (LGD-4033, RAD-140). The risk is still there, but a bit less dramatic than in women. Women have to prevent herselves 6 months after the Ostarine application, the researchers recommend.
Despite on these fact, I personally would wait for further studies, which cover the topic "pregnancy". Lower dosed LGD in this case would be IMHO the best option. It's not pure anabolic but also have some androgenic effect.

You can't have your cake and eat it too ;)
 
Hercules1982

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Just a little update on the potential LGD lethargy from my side. I am now two weeks into a bulk cycle using 10mg LGD solo. Feeling no lethargy at all, full of energy, thus I attribute this summer's lethargy to the low carb diet and also having large amount of cortisol crushing 11-oxo (700 - 1.000 mg / day) in my stack.
 
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sanmarino, thanks for the thoughtful response. i already have one and he is so much to handle i'd really like to never have another one.
 

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From my personal experience with Osta, I found I felt fine on 15 and 20 mg ED but once I upped it to 25 for the final couple weeks, that is when the lethargy hit me. So maybe running on the lower end of dosage might help avoid that side.
 
kboxer7

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You are welcome. Sorry, I can't follow. One of what?
Looks like he's saying he doesn't want another child because the little bundle of joy he has now keeps him busy enough haha
 
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