Irreversable sides for women - AnabolicMinds.com

Irreversable sides for women

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    Irreversable sides for women


    I keep reading on these forums how androgenic side effects from prohormones are irreversable for women. I tend to think this is overstated. My personal experience is that those sides go away after a month or two off cycle. When I take 4-AD my clitoris does swell, but it returns to normal off cycle. Note - I actually like this side effect as....wooowee baby, is it quite sensative and my libido is raised considerably. My voice also drops slightly (I test it by singing) whether it is 19-nor, 1,4-anddro or 4-AD. This also returns to normal off cycle. I would like to hear other womens experiences regarding this issue.
    Doses I have done:
    19-Nor - 300mg/day
    19-Nor/1,4- andro 300mg/day each
    4-AD 160mg/day transdermal
    4-AD/1-test 100mg/day/50mg/day

    This is very little real info out there regarding women and prohormone usage so I'm hoping this thread will elicit some usefull response.

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    Welcome, Indigo6!

    You're right: this is a topic rarely addressed, so thank you for stepping up and initiating the conversation. My first curiosity is: how long have your cycles been, what have you done for PCT, and how long have you given yourself between cycle?

    I'm also curious as to how you guage your results in terms of strength, body-composition, etc.
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    I dont have much input but my wife took 50 mg of nor for 3 wks got a little stronger gained a little muscle. not much as far as sides. I'm thinking about trying another cycle of something with her soon.

    bump on the above questions.
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    I know women who can use as little as 50mg 4AD TD and get those libido sides. They all experience lower voice and clitoral enalargement (and some man hair). The voice and libido go away after a week, but the man hair....I'm not sure. Adding 1-T to the mix certainly increases strength.
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    Interesting topic! One of my friends(women) has done 5-10mg of Anavar and some low dose Deca. As far as PH's I'm not sure what she has used and at what dosages, but I know she dabbled in some.

    I'll try to get her to sign up here, as she said she would, she just hasn't had the time lately. But she assured me she would sign up soon!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    You're right: this is a topic rarely addressed, so thank you for stepping up and initiating the conversation. My first curiosity is: how long have your cycles been, what have you done for PCT, and how long have you given yourself between cycle?
    I don't think that women need PCT in the sense that we do (AFAIK they might not need it at all, with the exception of keeping calories and protein up) - the point of PCT is to restore natural test production and keep estrogen levels and effects low. Since women naturally have high estrogen levels and low test levels, if they took the PCT drugs that we do, they'd probably seriously mess themselves up.

    It is nice, though, to see a female with some experience in cycling posting here, since this is a subject most of us know little about and I think that a lot of us would like to know more, if for no other reason than pure curiosity. I'd like to know the nature and extent of the clitoral enlargement, the level/severity of voice deepening, and about other androgenic side effects like increased body hair, (scalp) hair loss, aggressiveness, etc.

    /karp
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    Understood - I just figured she'd have something to offer on the subject of getting herself 'back to normal' following a cycle - and I'm interested in what that might mean for her & how she might approach it.

    Certainly didn't mean to suggest that she'd approach it the way you or I might!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJA
    I know women who can use as little as 50mg 4AD TD and get those libido sides. They all experience lower voice and clitoral enalargement (and some man hair). The voice and libido go away after a week, but the man hair....I'm not sure. Adding 1-T to the mix certainly increases strength.
    B.S. - "They all" certainly do not! I'm dating one who has used a variety of prohormones AND "prosteroids," at various times and dosages off and on for 5 years now without ONE negative side-effect, but a ****-load of positive benefits that most males would be envious of (and she's still a babe!). Most recently, she's been cycling m-dien (1 - 2 mg/day) and m5aa (one tablet/pill/capsule)before workoutswith wonderful body comp and strength results.
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    no offense to anyone here. But the thought of girls, especially my girlfriend using aas/ph makes me wanna puke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    no offense to anyone here. But the thought of girls, especially my girlfriend using aas/ph makes me wanna puke.
    No offense, but puke on. No offense, but willful ignorance makes me want to do the same.
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    ignorance....its not ignorance....its personal opinion
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    Glad to see some positive response


    Quote Originally Posted by jrkarp
    I don't think that women need PCT in the sense that we do (AFAIK they might not need it at all, with the exception of keeping calories and protein up) - the point of PCT is to restore natural test production and keep estrogen levels and effects low. Since women naturally have high estrogen levels and low test levels, if they took the PCT drugs that we do, they'd probably seriously mess themselves up.

    It is nice, though, to see a female with some experience in cycling posting here, since this is a subject most of us know little about and I think that a lot of us would like to know more, if for no other reason than pure curiosity. I'd like to know the nature and extent of the clitoral enlargement, the level/severity of voice deepening, and about other androgenic side effects like increased body hair, (scalp) hair loss, aggressiveness, etc.

    /karp
    Lets see, where to start. O.K. when I ran the 4-AD @ 160mg/day the enlargement could be quite significant if in an excited state. However, this would quickly return to normal off cycle (within a week or two). Sorry guys, I don't have any measurements for you, LOL. Voice deepening seems to vary throughout the day. My voice is also very sensitive to overuse; it gets worse the more I talk and I can get hoarse if I push it. But this too returns to normal after about a month off cycle. Very little increased body hair, but then I was never very hairy to begin with. I did have to terminate the 1,4 - andro due to an irritation that broke out on on my chest. I think I also may have had a little hair thinning. No real acne to speak of.
    Now regarding cycling. I ran 6 to 8 week cycles with 4 to 6 weeks off in between. No PCT, I don't think we need it. Something else you have to realize is at my age (50) my estrogen production has already diminished. I had already ceased having periods before I started using Ph's. I had also reached my "genetic potential" before resorting to prohormones (training 20+ years). In addition, my natural hormones levels were dropping and I was seeing the results in my training.
    My favorite so far is the 4-AD. I can see why you guys love your test so much. Not only has it done wonders for my training, but my libido and general feeling of well being is nicely increased.
    In regard to my training and gains I have experienced: Nice gains in strength and I have gained at least 5 to 8 pounds of muscle in the last ten months. That's excellent for me. In the past I struggled for every pound. I tend to be leaner and have less fat on the backs of my thighs and buttocks (I'm 5'5", 150 pounds).
    As far as aggression goes, well I've always been kinda....assertive.
    I'm only two weeks into the 4-AD/ 1-test cycle. I think just this week the 1-test may be kicking in; starting to gain weight, hungry all the time. And I don't use creatine in case you're wondering.
    Does that answer all your questions?
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    One more: do you find that your in a great mood while "on"? This is also another seemingly popular trait that I've seen women experience.

    B.S. - "They all" certainly do not! I'm dating one who has used a variety of prohormones AND "prosteroids," at various times and dosages off and on for 5 years now without ONE negative side-effect, but a ****-load of positive benefits that most males would be envious of (and she's still a babe!). Most recently, she's been cycling m-dien (1 - 2 mg/day) and m5aa (one tablet/pill/capsule)before workoutswith wonderful body comp and strength results.
    GEEZ CARD.....take it easy in here!! I was referring to "all" of the women that I know of who have tried this. Didn't mean to offend you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJA
    One more: do you find that your in a great mood while "on"? This is also another seemingly popular trait that I've seen women experience.



    GEEZ CARD.....take it easy in here!! I was referring to "all" of the women that I know of who have tried this. Didn't mean to offend you.
    Yes. Very positive and confident.
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    Cycling


    I've seen a few women claim that they never go all the way off; that they just taper way down. They claim that going all the way off is too much of a hormone roller coaster. I haven't noticed any severe rebounds but then my system has already shut down naturally (menopause). What is your input on cycle lengths? There is so little info out there that I have to kinda experiment and see what works. The first couple of cycles I did started out at such low levels that the first two to four weeks probably didn't have much of an effect. I had to slowly increase dosages to see what the best dosage is. And I'm still experimenting...
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    Indigo6, given that you've tried a variety of phs including some quite androgenic ones do you have any plans to run Superdrol? I wonder if 10 mg might be too much and perhaps an oral solution is needed at say 5mg/day. If anyone has any thoughts if it would be appropriate for a female to use it please share.
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    Superdrol


    Quote Originally Posted by ersatz
    Indigo6, given that you've tried a variety of phs including some quite androgenic ones do you have any plans to run Superdrol? I wonder if 10 mg might be too much and perhaps an oral solution is needed at say 5mg/day. If anyone has any thoughts if it would be appropriate for a female to use it please share.
    Have not looked into it (and I don't have any - not sure where to get it). But I am curious too. How expensive is it?
    Regarding the more "androgenic" PH's. I got very little from the 19-nor's (tried both the dione and the diol). And for the cost, I just thought it was not a good value. The 4-AD was cheap, especially if you bought the powder and made your own transdermal.
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    the tapering idea for women might be a good idea. my wife is still increasing doses to find out what will be a good dose. I think she wants to try 4oht trans next.
  19. SJA
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    You can find some info on female SD use here

    As far as dosing with respect to ramping, I think it would vary from person to person. Just like with men, there is going to be tolerance differences. I've also been toying around (researching) whether or not you would need to cycle. You can look at it two ways.

    1. If you use PH's like HRT, you can get away with low doses and not cycling.

    2. If you like the effects of higher doses, then you need to cycle to avoid virilizing effects (low voice, clitoral enlargement, hair growth).

    But I think that you may (in women) be able to get away with larger doses cycled down to lower doses rather than going completely off.

    A friend of mine keeps asking if he could just keep his wife "on" all the time because he likes the side effects (libido). I have been telling him to have her cycle 4 on 4 off (no real basis for this....just being conservative). But the more I read on women's HRT, the more I'm believing that you don't have to go completely "off". The sides of 4AD/1-T for women seem to be much less severe than horse piss hormones. If you have the $$ or a script, I would opt for bio-identical hormone replacement.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJA
    If you use PH's like HRT, you can get away with low doses and not cycling.
    Steve, what's the range of these low doses?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SJA
    .......
    A friend of mine keeps asking if he could just keep his wife "on" all the time because he likes the side effects (libido). I have been telling him to have her cycle 4 on 4 off (no real basis for this....just being conservative). But the more I read on women's HRT, the more I'm believing that you don't have to go completely "off". The sides of 4AD/1-T for women seem to be much less severe than horse piss hormones. If you have the $$ or a script, I would opt for bio-identical hormone replacement.

    I don't think for one second that 4AD, 1T or methyls like superdrol is anywhere near ideal for HRT. Horse piss hormones are estrogens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
    no offense to anyone here. But the thought of girls, especially my girlfriend using aas/ph makes me wanna puke.
    Well, probably 80% of those fitness competitors (hotties) are using. Still feel like puking? I think they primarily use to reduce leg and hip fat, and tone up.
  23. SJA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BodyWizard
    Steve, what's the range of these low doses?

    I would say 10-20mg transdermal...but that is just a guess based on some testing...err....not by me though

    [PHP]I don't think for one second that 4AD, 1T or methyls like superdrol is anywhere near ideal for HRT. Horse piss hormones are estrogens.[/PHP]

    I wasn't referring to methyls and I should have clarified a little better I also was just using HRT as an example of how to use these compounds (not that they should replace them). Sorry for the miscommunication.
    First off, I'm talking about 4AD and 1-T. These would be specifically used for enhancement of libido and sense of well being. There are a lot of women looking for the "female Viagra". Well....this is it IMO.

    As for HRT, I was just relaying info that typical drugs used as female HRT have much harsher side effects than 4AD and 1-T (the majority of women using horse piss hormones will end up getting a script for anti-depressants within a year of using them) and that the FDA for whatever reason will not allow the use of a T-patch as shown here So women have another option for increased libido and mood if they have access to these chems through a B/F or Husband who may have stocked up prior to the ban.
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    Female viagra


    First off, I'm talking about 4AD and 1-T. These would be specifically used for enhancement of libido and sense of well being. There are a lot of women looking for the "female Viagra". Well....this is it IMO.

    As for HRT, I was just relaying info that typical drugs used as female HRT have much harsher side effects than 4AD and 1-T (the majority of women using horse piss hormones will end up getting a script for anti-depressants within a year of using them) and that the FDA for whatever reason will not allow the use of a T-patch as shown here So women have another option for increased libido and mood if they have access to these chems through a B/F or Husband who may have stocked up prior to the ban.
    I personally think that 4-AD (or test for that matter) could be the female viagra. It has made a tremendous difference in my libido and sexual response. However, I think there is a certain measure of sexism that is influencing the FDA to not approve the T-patch. The powers that be aren't sure it's such a good idea to approve a drug that will make their women horny. Sure, on the surface it looks like a good idea, but...women enjoying sex? My god that could mean that they will learn their men arn't up to the task...or they will start sleeping around, ect. No,no, no...much better to keep things they way they are. Women have gotten too independent as it is...and now you want them to actively be looking for sex...like a man does...oh my god, the humanity. Kinda like that. Seems to me Viagra, Cialis and Levitra showed up overnight and had no problems getting approved.
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    I think the natural levels of testosterone vary much more in women compared to men so finding the right dosing for steroids/ph is a little more hassle.
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    IMO you'll get better results running either var or primo without any of the nasty, POTENTIALLY permanent sides (like voice deepening, hair growth, etc)
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    I think they are afraid of releasing testosterone for anything. not so much being sexist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenihan
    IMO you'll get better results running either var or primo without any of the nasty, POTENTIALLY permanent sides (like voice deepening, hair growth, etc)
    While that may be true, I hear real primo is hard to find and var is very tough on the liver. I also do not have a source for these items. But I gotta admit, I've been curious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by wastedwhiteboy2
    I think they are afraid of releasing testosterone for anything. not so much being sexist.
    Men get it for HRT all the time. My husband may get it. They will supplement a mans test to bring it up to a more functional level, but they hesitate to give very small doses to women for HRT? Tell me there's not a sexist component in that. Of course there is. It's the same boogie-boogie crap I see all the time about how any women who experiments with anabolics is gonna grow a mustache.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Indigo6
    I personally think that 4-AD (or test for that matter) could be the female viagra. It has made a tremendous difference in my libido and sexual response. However, I think there is a certain measure of sexism that is influencing the FDA to not approve the T-patch. The powers that be aren't sure it's such a good idea to approve a drug that will make their women horny. Sure, on the surface it looks like a good idea, but...women enjoying sex? My god that could mean that they will learn their men arn't up to the task...or they will start sleeping around, ect. No,no, no...much better to keep things they way they are. Women have gotten too independent as it is...and now you want them to actively be looking for sex...like a man does...oh my god, the humanity. Kinda like that. Seems to me Viagra, Cialis and Levitra showed up overnight and had no problems getting approved.
    The difference, however, is that Viagra, Cialis, and Levitra do not make you horny, they just make you hard. It's a common misconception that Viagra makes you horny, but a little research clears that up.

    There is a testosterone spray being tested for women with sexual dysfunction.

    /karp
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    You're right. The main use of viagra was discovered serendipitously when patients saluted constantly and even asked if they could continue taking viagra.
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    Yup. They were in a blood pressure medication trial. Seems that it lowers blood pressure by dilating blood vessels. Dilated (and full) blood vessels in penis = erection. Dilated blood vessels in head = congestion and headache, which are common side effects of Viagra, Levitra, and Cialis.

    /karp
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    and some of the BP meds like enapril trust me on that one
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