4-ad Injectable

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    4-ad Injectable


    I vaguely remember a post(and for some reason I can't find it) commenting on turning 4-ad into an injectable and BDC doing a writeup. Just curious if this has progressed, or if someone can provide a method for converting it now. Also, how exactly would someone dose this as an injectable? TIA

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    Why not just inject testosterone?
  3. The True Warrior is one who conquers oneself
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    Originally posted by phil216
    Why not just inject testosterone?
    exactly

    injecting 4ad would be just as illegal.....no?

    h19
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    You would also get better results with test
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    I think Chemo compared it to suspension. Try getting taste base for .80 a gram. If it worked half as good it would be a nice value. Plus if your powder is caught in the mail somehow you have not done anything illegal.
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    true it is legal and that is a big plus but I do not think the results would be nearly the same due to that fact that only so much 4ad will convert to test.
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    All the points above have their merit.

    However, take a look at BDC's reply to my thread about 4AD injectable. I have been studying this for some time and what I have seen is that people compare the results to test suspension. I have asked and read on several boards about this and everyone who has tried the injectable has had resounding success and raves about it. In reality, look at the costs. BDC sells the 4AD for a buck a gram, less than that in bulk. You buy the necessary components to make the injectable, you could get 5o grams of injectable 4AD for around $100. there is no way that test can compare to that in price. The best thing about the 4AD is that it is legal (for now). the only way to know for sure is to try it yourself, you may only be able to come up with around 50-75 mg/ml, but 2cc eod for 8 weeks makes a nice cycle of this. I would not be surprised if someone gained 20 lbs off of this, as long as diet and training are in order. And remember, the bioavailability of sometyhing injected is 100%, and 4AD is 90% as anabolic as test. So do the numbers and you pretty much are doing test. Heck even if you wanted to conver 10 grams to injectable, the costs would not be over $50. What have you got to lose? Absolutely nothing. The only thing that you have to be worried about is the purity of the 4AD which will help contribute to the solubility in oil. I am not sure the purity of BDC's 4AD, but I could figure to guess that it would be over 95%, which is fine for making an injectable. Hopefully if BDC gets some time he will post on how to make a 4AD injectable as I know for damn sure I would use it in a heartbeat.
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    Also, take a look on elitefitness anabolic board about this subject, and do a search on injectable 4AD. A guy named Pityocaptes tried this and posted his results and I promise that when you read them you will be blown away. Animal's board also talks extensively about this, but you will have to do a search as it was discussed long before his bust. Hit me up if you have more questions.
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    Was BDC saying 50 mg 2x per day? If so you will feel like ahuman pin cushion. If you think it will work and judging by what BDC is saying it should work well. My experience with test suspension was mind blowing I got big quick.
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    Well, I think I would feel like a pin cushion as well . But remember, the oil depot will dissipate slowly over the span of 2-3 days and that will help slow the absorption of the 4AD, much like the TNE from synovex. I asked around about the frequency of injections, and the general consensus is that eod injects will suffice, but try to get the concentration as high as possible so that you dontr have to do multiple injects. I am not sure about frontloading, but that may also help get blood levels to a stale level more quickly.
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    For those interested, take a look around. BDC has added some great info on this, but others from different boards have done so as well. This will help big time.
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    I would love to see your results from this cycle
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    Sure thing, I plan on doing one after my surgery.
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    Good Luck with the surgery and keep us posted on your results
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    Originally posted by phil216
    true it is legal and that is a big plus but I do not think the results would be nearly the same due to that fact that only so much 4ad will convert to test.

    4-AD is about 95% as anabolic as Test
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    is there any data on that, I know it must convert to testosterone and I do not think the conversion rate is that high.
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    The 95% thing is something the supp companies toss out there. Not sure it is true.

    For the record PA thinks this is a horrible idea.
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    Supp companies are cliaming 95% conversion, meaning if I took 100mg of 4ad it would convert to 95mg of test?
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    Originally posted by phil216
    Supp companies are cliaming 95% conversion, meaning if I took 100mg of 4ad it would convert to 95mg of test?
    No they claim 95% as potent as test.

    ***************************
    To date, the only legal Class-II androgen we've found that meets our criteria — maximal gains with minimum side effects — is 4-androstenediol (4-AD).

    Surprisingly enough, 4-AD is 95% as potent as Testosterone, and it turns out that it's a very important steroid in the body: Biotest research uncovered that there's actually more 4-AD in the blood than Testosterone, something that scientists had not generally been aware of. Since it's comparably potent to Testosterone, it has tremendous promise as a legal anabolic, but its effectiveness depends on actually getting enough into the body.

    Early products, particularly capsules, weren't effective because so little of the compound reached the blood, and duration of action was short. These problems were largely solved with the introduction of Androsol™ Sports Skin Tonic. Using transdermal delivery, Androsol is able to achieve sustained super-physiologic blood levels of 4-AD (in the ballpark of 3000 ng/dL!) and to produce excellent muscle-building results.

    A 5-lb gain in LBM within the first two weeks of use is common, given high protein intake, sufficient calories, and proficient training. Some users have even experienced a 10-lb LBM gain in two weeks!
  20. Registered User
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    You must excuse me I some what new to the prohormone thing. I'm trying to contribute and gain knowledge. The info you just gave me was great I never knew 4 ad itself was active, I thought it had to convert to test to become active.
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    Originally posted by phil216
    You must excuse me I some what new to the prohormone thing. I'm trying to contribute and gain knowledge. The info you just gave me was great I never knew 4 ad itself was active, I thought it had to convert to test to become active.
    I am in the same boat new to PH. I have just been using the real stuff up until lately.
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    Originally posted by Aneas



    . Using transdermal delivery, Androsol is able to achieve sustained super-physiologic blood levels of 4-AD (in the ballpark of 3000 ng/dL!) and to produce excellent muscle-building results.

    Androsol ONLY used ISo as well....

    You guys are crazy. This is where the transdermals come in... Just rub on 1000mg/day. I garantee you will grow..... GARANTEED

    If you are going to pin something just do test. Just my opinion.. Talk to ya
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    Originally posted by phil216
    Supp companies are cliaming 95% conversion, meaning if I took 100mg of 4ad it would convert to 95mg of test?


    No No No....

    4-AD converts to Test @ about 16%...

    4-AD in plain form is 95% as anabolic as Test

    BDC says so
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    If BDC says so i believe it
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    Heh, man I started a thread and missed out on talking in it for 26 replies :P That's what I get for posting and running...


    Anyways, I have hit the elite boards, as well as finding those comments made in Brock's thread by BDC.

    Reasons for doing it were well spelled out: Somewhere in the neighborhood of 95% as anabolic as Test, when injected. BDC made a 6lbm gain in 2 weeks off of twice daily injections. It's cheap, it's legal to obtain, etc etc.

    To Curt2go: Transdermal vs Inject of 4-ad is like taking two different anabolics, essentially.

    About being a pin-cushion: This is my only complaint, however I've read good posts regarding 4-ad-ec, which is esterfied and therefore might just prevent that twice daily stabbing.

    I'm hoping BDC will post on this soon, and possibly explain dosing schedules that don't involve multiple injects per day.
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    Originally posted by BrKonman
    Heh, man I started a thread and missed out on talking in it for 26 replies :P That's what I get for posting and running...

    To Curt2go: Transdermal vs Inject of 4-ad is like taking two different anabolics, essentially.

    About being a pin-cushion: This is my only complaint, however I've read good posts regarding 4-ad-ec, which is esterfied and therefore might just prevent that twice daily stabbing.

    I'm hoping BDC will post on this soon, and possibly explain dosing schedules that don't involve multiple injects per day.
    The ONLY diff between pinning and transdermal is the amount that gets into the blood.... pinning 100%, transdermal 40-45%...

    The 4-ad-ec is esterfied for oral absorption. Not to sure if it would help with pinning. It just help to make sure the 4-ad makes it through the stomach into the intestines and out to the bloodstream.... Talk to ya...
  27. Registered User
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    Dosent the suspension in oil allow for it to dissipate over the span of 2 days or so?

    If this were so, then eod injects could be possible.

    I know that this is the way that TNE from synovex is used by many people, but I could be wrong when it comes to 4AD.
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    Brock,

    I think you are on the right track. An ester and its length should extend the time for total breakdown. It should help 4AD with an ester injectable.

    But with orals, it is still pretty quick but not as quick as regular 4AD, I would think.

    I am sure BDC can help us.
  29. Brewing Anabolic Minds
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    Originally posted by Brock Landers
    Dosent the suspension in oil allow for it to dissipate over the span of 2 days or so?
    It will be fine for EOD injects IF it were dissolved in the oil. Suspensions tend to leach pretty quickly even if it is an oil "suspension". I'm doing trials now to determine the best ingredients and ratios for the 4-AD inject. I plan on making a 10 20, 30 , etc. mg/mL preparation and see which is stable (and least painful). I am doing this for different ratios of medium/solvent/co-solvent systems. I will post the recipes and results within the next week or two (sorry, still just a bit behind and busy).

    Chemo
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    Originally posted by curt2go


    Androsol ONLY used ISo as well....

    You guys are crazy. This is where the transdermals come in... Just rub on 1000mg/day. I garantee you will grow..... GARANTEED

    If you are going to pin something just do test. Just my opinion.. Talk to ya

    Thats not my stuff I cut and pasted from biotest web site to show Phil where people got the 95% from.

    I would gladly pin test right now or any other gear for that matter but I cant becuase I have been busted. If I was not I would not even think about using prohormones.
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    Originally posted by Big Daddy Chemo


    It will be fine for EOD injects IF it were dissolved in the oil. Suspensions tend to leach pretty quickly even if it is an oil "suspension". I'm doing trials now to determine the best ingredients and ratios for the 4-AD inject. I plan on making a 10 20, 30 , etc. mg/mL preparation and see which is stable (and least painful). I am doing this for different ratios of medium/solvent/co-solvent systems. I will post the recipes and results within the next week or two (sorry, still just a bit behind and busy).

    Chemo
    Just a lil' ol' BUMP for the Big guy. You've got curious people and it's been more than 2 weeks
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    buuuuuummmmmpppp


    bump again for the big guy, cause i for one am eagerly awaiting.....soooooooo

     

    GET TO POSTING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    hey guys, i suppose this is slightly off-topic, but there are ways of getting around the whole injection idea, while still getting a very high percentage into ur bloodstream. intranasals, and sub-linguals for example. from what ive read, the absorption rate of a intranasal using the method described in dazed's article (mindandmuscle.com, issue 9) is between 90%-95%. its pretty easy to turn a steroid or prohormone into a cyclodextrin so that it is usable in a sub-lingual or intranasal. so basically, considering that 4-ad is about 95% as anabolic as test, and u would be getting between 90%-95% of what ur using, u would be able to get between 85%-91% of what test would give u, anabolicly speaking. so hypothetically, lets say u have been using 560 mg a week of test (im not too familiar with steroid dosages, so if this is way off from a normal dose, go ahead and correct me), well if u were to use about 640 mg of 4-ad intranasaly, or sub-lingually, u should be right in the neighborhood of the affects of the test, without a single injection. this is all theoretical of course, so dont hold me to any of this, but this should, in theory work just fine. sorry for rambling on, i just thought this might be of use to u guys.
  34. Brewing Anabolic Minds
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    Originally posted by drfly
    hey guys, i suppose this is slightly off-topic, but there are ways of getting around the whole injection idea, while still getting a very high percentage into ur bloodstream. intranasals, and sub-linguals for example. from what ive read, the absorption rate of a intranasal using the method described in dazed's article (mindandmuscle.com, issue 9) is between 90%-95%. its pretty easy to turn a steroid or prohormone into a cyclodextrin so that it is usable in a sub-lingual or intranasal. so basically, considering that 4-ad is about 95% as anabolic as test, and u would be getting between 90%-95% of what ur using, u would be able to get between 85%-91% of what test would give u, anabolicly speaking. so hypothetically, lets say u have been using 560 mg a week of test (im not too familiar with steroid dosages, so if this is way off from a normal dose, go ahead and correct me), well if u were to use about 640 mg of 4-ad intranasaly, or sub-lingually, u should be right in the neighborhood of the affects of the test, without a single injection. this is all theoretical of course, so dont hold me to any of this, but this should, in theory work just fine. sorry for rambling on, i just thought this might be of use to u guys.
    There are a few things that you aren't taking into consideration:

    • Intranasal is GREAT for absorption but has a 25 mg per dose limit.  Refigure a weekly dose schedule and you get a whole lot of PH applications to your cavities.  For this reason, it is my recommendation to limit the use to pre-workout and not as a cycle base.
    • I firmly believe the notion that 4-AD has anabolic activity in its UNCONVERTED form.  It's hard to really estimate percent activity accurately but reports have it anywhere from 50-90%  I tend to go with the higher end of that scale...
    • The post by Dazed was GREAT!  It opened my eyes to the fact that I may have used a hard to complex cycledextrin and this the reason for my low yield.  The fact still remains that the method is untried...it would be better to verify we can actually perform the complexation before we start to plan the application.
    • If a workable recipe for a 4-AD can be established then 100% becomes the figure of reference.  In relation to intranasal application this is a leap from the rough guestimate of 90-95%.  For some, me included, the knowledge of EXACT doseages goes a long way for recording results and coorelations.


    Getting back to the recipe...

    I still haven't had time to work on the recipe.  I know I'm late on the ball but December is a big month for me and preparations began weeks ago.  I will slowly work on it a time is allowed but don't see any progress for at least another few weeks.  Sorry bros...

    Chemo
  35. Anabolic Innovations Owner
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    Bump anything yet bro?
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    I noticed kilosports now sells 4ad with an ester in powder form. This would probably be best used for anyone who wants to inject.

    Secondly, as far as the 15% conversion factor - I've seen this number thrown around by Bigcat and some others but, in the study, what transport method was used. If you're getting 100% absorbtion of the product, I would assume you would get a higher conversion rate since there would be more of it in your system, no?

    Or would the enzymes be saturated?
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    DO you know where there are some good directions on how to convert it into an injectable?
  38. Gold Member
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    ok here ya go

    http://www.triedia.com/board/showthr...threadid=21872

    checkout mr t's site as he now says he has a solvent for getting even winny in oil
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    Wojo that was VERY helpful thanks.
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    Originally posted by Chemo

    [*]I firmly believe the notion that 4-AD has anabolic activity in its UNCONVERTED form.  It's hard to really estimate percent activity accurately but reports have it anywhere from 50-90%  I tend to go with the higher end of that scale.
    Then 4-AD also has androgenic properties in its inconverted form, doesn't it? If so, it means that it's a very androgenic compound and you cannot use finasteride in order to stop that androgenity, am I right?

    Could you post some research which demonstrates that 4-AD similar potency to testosterone stems from INTRINSIC anabolic abilities and not from higher conversion enzymes in skeletal muscle?
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