SARMS vs PH's - Which Produces Greatest RESULTS

[BillyBatson]

For those of you who have run both pro-hormone cycles (e.g. SDMZ 2.0, 3.0, other) and a SARM cycle (whichever), which produced the greater results overall in your opinion?

I'm not talking about side-effects and/or liver toxicity ... but rather the noticeable RESULTS in terms of overall muscle/strength gain.

 

[Bunshichi]

Well depends on how you define PHs. If you include Designersteroids I am sure around this time they will provide more gains. But in following generations of SARMs this might be reversed.

 

[mixedup]

If your talking old school I don't think any sarms can match up to sdrol phera or m1t etc. If your talking newer ph ds I think they are comparable

 

[Superman_777]

No, they do not match up. They look good on paper and that is as far as it goes.

 

[jbryand101b]

More gains more sides.

 

[Hastur]

PH's will be stronger than SARMs hand down. But like it's been mentioned, the more you gain, the more side effects you have. It all depends on your priorities. Of course, the compounds make a big difference in this comparison. But lets say Halodrol compared to Ostarine, Halodrol will put on more mass in 6 weeks hands down, it will also require liver protection and is associated with far more side effects.

 

[T-Bone]

I had my AST or ALT go up something like 30 points just from running Ostarine alone. Not sure which it was, I'd have to look back at my records.

 

[Joedoubledose]

It all comes down to pros vs cons , sarms your gonna have less gains in some instances , then again halo can put on 10-15 pounds in 4-6 weeks while 8 weeks of LGD can do the same . Sarms aren't going to be damaging like a methylated product . All in all its user preference and user dependent . Diet being the number one determine factor imo

 

[Big_sxc]

I had to run lgd at 30mg to maybe get 10 pounds MAX. All lgd I've tried. Its powerful but it lacks the hormone kick it gives to your body.

 

[Big_sxc]

Epistane bro. Use epistane.

 

[Joedoubledose]

Yes sarms won't really give you that "on" feeling

 

[Hastur]

Yes sarms won't really give you that "on" feeling

And they aren't intended to. We should all keep that in mind. SARMS were never intended to be as potent as Test, nor replace it. If people are seeking that 'on' feeling, they are better off researching other compounds.

 

[Night hog]

Prohormones aren't the same as they were before the ban. I still have a bottle of super drol and phera phlex In my drawer that i have never opened. I don't think any sarm could compare to those. I feel like they are comparable now that the ban got rid of some good ph's. Been looking for epistane but I can only find it on eBay and it is probably junk.

 

[BillyBatson]

So I had - in my opinion - a previous successful 4-week cycle run with a solo SDMZ 2.0 (20 mg/day) back in May.
Put on 10 lbs and pretty decent size/strength gains ... no noticeable side effects. PCT = nolva.

(My Stats: - 45 y/o, 5'10, 215 lbs, Bodyfat around 15%).

As it has been over 8 weeks now, I am ready to start my next (again, 4-6 week) cycle and I'm thinking it will be SDMZ 2.0 + 4-Andro this time around. I'm thinking/hoping that the 4-Andro will not only serve as a test-base, but also be a catalyst for increased results due to the test conversion.

PCT likely to be nolva again.


Thoughts?

 

[mixedup]

My thoughts are if your stats are acvurate then you got some good size approx 180lbs of lbm. I would try and cut the difference in how you look between 15% and 10% is Huge it may not seem like a big deal but you will look so much bigger

 

[BillyBatson]

My thoughts are if your stats are acvurate then you got some good size approx 180lbs of lbm. I would try and cut the difference in how you look between 15% and 10% is Huge it may not seem like a big deal but you will look so much bigger

So, other than cutting calories and [trying] to fit in more cardio ... any other suggestions as to the Road to 10%?

 

[mixedup]

So, other than cutting calories and [trying] to fit in more cardio ... any other suggestions as to the Road to 10%?

What's your diet look like?

 

[BillyBatson]

What's your diet look like?

About 3000-3500 cals/day - mostly clean eating . . . .
egg whites, tuna, chicken, 95% lean beef, whey protein (ON Gold Standard Whey), 6-9 cups of green tea/day, brown rice, 10-12 cups of water/day .... occasional cheat meal (maybe once a week).

 

[mixedup]

About 3000-3500 cals/day - mostly clean eating . . . .
egg whites, tuna, chicken, 95% lean beef, whey protein (ON Gold Standard Whey), 6-9 cups of green tea/day, brown rice, 10-12 cups of water/day .... occasional cheat meal (maybe once a week).

For me personally fat loss vs weight loss is about my macro content. I can lower cal and lose weight but it might not be fat.

 

[BillyBatson]

For me personally fat loss vs weight loss is about my macro content. I can lower cal and lose weight but it might not be fat.

And that's the problem :banghead:

 

[mixedup]

And that's the problem :banghead:

Yeah for me my body needs low carbs to lose fat.

 

[BillyBatson]

Yeah for me my body needs low carbs to lose fat.

I suppose I could [try to] significantly cut down my carb intake - see how that works.

My only concern with this method has been the reduction in energy to fuel my workouts ... but I can give it a shot.

 

[mixedup]

I suppose I could [try to] significantly cut down my carb intake - see how that works.

My only concern with this method has been the reduction in energy to fuel my workouts ... but I can give it a shot.

Cut them slowly not drastic allows your body to adjust

 

[Hastur]

Cut them slowly not drastic allows your body to adjust

I just want to add that mixedup is giving you great advice here, and I concur with all of his points. I personally cannot lose fat on high or even medium carb intake, it has to be low.

 

[ericool007]

Ive been very impressed by ostarine so far, first sarm ive ever ran in my life 4 weeks in now at 20 mgs and i just strted adding topical formestane into the mix this week and im drying out and looking full as ever. Im up about 4lbs and dont feel like ive put on any fat. to me this kind of feels like a light epistane cycle of 20 mgs but so far ive had no side effects except for a couple weird headaches i could probably attribute to osta.

anyways OSta plus formeron FTW!!
its a shame this is my last bottle of formestane and i dont know how to get my hands on anymore :'(

 

[Hastur]

Ive been very impressed by ostarine so far, first sarm ive ever ran in my life 4 weeks in now at 20 mgs and i just strted adding topical formestane into the mix this week and im drying out and looking full as ever. Im up about 4lbs and dont feel like ive put on any fat. to me this kind of feels like a light epistane cycle of 20 mgs but so far ive had no side effects except for a couple weird headaches i could probably attribute to osta.

anyways OSta plus formeron FTW!!
its a shame this is my last bottle of formestane and i dont know how to get my hands on anymore :'(

Formastane is/was amazing. There's nothing OTC quite like it. I really wish it was still around, but alas, it went the way of many other favorite... Glad to see Osta/Forma is treating you so well! Sounds like a fantastic combination!

 

[CJNator]

I had to run lgd at 30mg to maybe get 10 pounds MAX. All lgd I've tried. Its powerful but it lacks the hormone kick it gives to your body.

Really? What company's LGD did you use and how long did you run it?

 

[ericool007]

Formastane is/was amazing. There's nothing OTC quite like it. I really wish it was still around, but alas, it went the way of many other favorite... Glad to see Osta/Forma is treating you so well! Sounds like a fantastic combination!

Ive been hearing a lot of things about MK-677 and might research up a bit more on it but next time i run osta ill probably add that in. do you guys make this yet i know you just came out with a new line of sarms or is it only available as a RC?

 

[Hastur]

Ive been hearing a lot of things about MK-677 and might research up a bit more on it but next time i run osta ill probably add that in. do you guys make this yet i know you just came out with a new line of sarms or is it only available as a RC?

Olympus UK offers the only available 3rd party tested MK-677 product currently on the market, to the best of my knowledge! Our MK-677 product is called Ghar1ne, and people seem to be loving it.

 

[ericool007]

Olympus UK offers the only available 3rd party tested MK-677 product currently on the market, to the best of my knowledge! Our MK-677 product is called Ghar1ne, and people seem to be loving it.

o nice im glad i asked you, ill probably buy it here shortly just to have ready for a later stack.

 

[Hastur]

o nice im glad i asked you, ill probably buy it here shortly just to have ready for a later stack.

I plan on picking some up for my PCT in September here soon! If you have any future questions or you're looking to get a deal on Ghar1ne feel free to PM me.

 

[AndroRage]

Ive been very impressed by ostarine so far, first sarm ive ever ran in my life 4 weeks in now at 20 mgs and i just strted adding topical formestane into the mix this week and im drying out and looking full as ever. Im up about 4lbs and dont feel like ive put on any fat. to me this kind of feels like a light epistane cycle of 20 mgs but so far ive had no side effects except for a couple weird headaches i could probably attribute to osta. anyways OSta plus formeron FTW!! its a shame this is my last bottle of formestane and i dont know how to get my hands on anymore :'(

Formastane is/was amazing. There's nothing OTC quite like it. I really wish it was still around, but alas, it went the way of many other favorite... Glad to see Osta/Forma is treating you so well! Sounds like a fantastic combination!

What was do good about it (Formestane)? I never had the chance but thought it was just a suicidal AI? Or have a missed something

 

[Hastur]

It was just a really solid OTC AI, and you could stack it on cycle and it had positive effects on body composition that other AIs really didn't/don't.

 

[StatePlan1425]

It was also a PH to 4-hydroxytestosterone so very mild androgenic effect as well...alas no more :-(

 

[BillyBatson]

So I had - in my opinion - a previous successful 4-week cycle run with a solo SDMZ 2.0 (20 mg/day) back in May.
Put on 10 lbs and pretty decent size/strength gains ... no noticeable side effects. PCT = nolva.

As it has been over 8 weeks now, I am ready to start my next (again, 4-6 week) cycle and I'm thinking it will be SDMZ 2.0 + 4-Andro this time around. I'm thinking/hoping that the 4-Andro will not only serve as a test-base, but also be a catalyst for increased results due to the test conversion.

PCT likely to be nolva again.


Thoughts?

I'm starting to wonder - seeing as that I did not notice any lethargy or lack of libido with my last SDMZ 2.0 only cycle - if I even need 4-Andro at all. I mean, is the potential for gains above/beyond what I could achieve with 20mg or dmz + msten worth the purchase?

 

[T-Bone]

I'm starting to wonder - seeing as that I did not notice any lethargy or lack of libido with my last SDMZ 2.0 only cycle - if I even need 4-Andro at all. I mean, is the potential for gains above/beyond what I could achieve with 20mg or dmz + msten worth the purchase?

Trest is available again from Olympus Labs, that's a much better base than 4 andro. Also the extra gains you get from it, is definitely worth the purchase!

 

[BillyBatson]

Trest is available again from Olympus Labs, that's a much better base than 4 andro. Also the extra gains you get from it, is definitely worth the purchase!

Just looked and couldn't find "Trest" on the Olympus Labs site. aranoid:

 

[T-Bone]

Just looked and couldn't find "Trest" on the Olympus Labs site. aranoid:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/272176-nutriverse-ol-uk.html

 

[jbryand101b]

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/supplement-deals/272176-nutriverse-ol-uk.html

Olympus UK brother

Kinda like cel and SNS