Cycle help plz

[Grifter]

Is HCG really needed on my 12 week Test E/EQ cycle?

 

[glenihan]

no its not necessary, although helpful throughout the cyle and will benefit recovery .. mind posting your whole cycle with doses please

 

[kwantam]

Is HCG really needed on my 12 week Test E/EQ cycle?

Enough hCG to last that whole cycle should cost you about $20. Small price to pay for full-sized nuts...

-kwantam

 

[Grifter]

test enanth week 1-12 500mg/week
EQ week 1-12 400mg/week
superdrol week 1-4 20mg/ed
nolva/clomid for pct week
would it make much dif if i did EQ for 10 weeks instead of 12?

 

[Grifter]

Also, sry for this noob question but would hcg be something i need to get from my source? or does research chem sites sell it?

 

[Beelzebub]

test enanth week 1-12 500mg/week
EQ week 1-12 400mg/week
superdrol week 1-4 20mg/ed
nolva/clomid for pct week
would it make much dif if i did EQ for 10 weeks instead of 12?

stop the eq at 10-11 weeks, so the test and eq will clear at the same time or close to it anyway. as for HCG, you'd have to ask your source, some carry it, some don't. i say run it, your nuts will thank you.

 

[Sticks]

good recommendation on stopping the Eq first but instead of shortening the EQ lengthen the test. Eq takes a long time to kick in and 12 weeks is really the minimum for this drug. Run the Eq to week twelve and the test to week 13.

 

[Grifter]

thanks for the info, also if i ran hcg with the cycle would it effect the gains?
or would it matter much if i just ran it post cycle before pct?

 

[Beelzebub]

thanks for the info, also if i ran hcg with the cycle would it effect the gains?
or would it matter much if i just ran it post cycle before pct?

umm, you're supposed to run HCG during the cycle, not during PCT.

 

[Grifter]

ohh, i read big cats hcg article and i thought he said start the hcg after your last shot of test? take 4 shots 5 days apart each?

 

[Beelzebub]

ohh, i read big cats hcg article and i thought he said start the hcg after your last shot of test? take 4 shots 5 days apart each?

big cat's articles are old. good for reference but not for practice. swale's protocol for HCG is the tried and true method. i'll see if i can find a thread about it so you can read up on it. but the general breakdown is 250iu's 2x a week (monday/thursday for instance) during the cycle to keep the nuts from atrophying (sp?). but given that you have 5000iu, you can't take it the entire cycle because it's only good for 60 days once it's mixed. so, you basically have to take it for the last 60 days of your cycle, which is roughly 8 weeks.

 

[Beelzebub]

here ya go:

Swale's PCT protocol (Swale is a doctor)

I've been getting quite a few emails from guys wanting individualized advice on their cycles. In the first place, I cannot design cycles, nor do I prescribe steroids (just ancillary medications). That would be a violation of my Oath as a physician, and DEA law to boot. Also, obviously I cannot afford to give away free Consultations. So, I'll post my PCT Protocols here, for anyone who may choose to use them.

Here it is:

I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn?t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn?t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM?s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a ?bridge?. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can?t ?fool? the body?it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground?and we don?t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols.

Thought this would shed a little light on all the HCG questions during cycle.

 

[kwantam]

ohh, i read big cats hcg article and i thought he said start the hcg after your last shot of test? take 4 shots 5 days apart each?

Dr. Swale's protocol seems to be more popular around here, and there is at least one study that seems to agree.

-kwantam

 

[Grifter]

thanks Beez, good info. Say i take the hcg and it ends 8 weeks into the cycle. I read someone saying maybe ALRI's new product HOT could maybe be used instead of hcg. Could that be possible. and i could finish the rest of the cycle with it?

 

[Grifter]

ok, just read wolfes thread. So I could start at week 6 and go to week 13 instead?

 

[exnihilo]

I am a big fan of 500iu EOD. I am also larger than normal, so of course you may want to adjust that number somewhat.

 

[Grifter]

off topic, guys on bb.com saying hcg can increase penis size, is that true?

 

[Beelzebub]

off topic, guys on bb.com saying hcg can increase penis size, is that true?

guys on bb.com say a lot of **** that ain't true. stick around here, you'll learn more.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

off topic, guys on bb.com saying hcg can increase penis size, is that true?

Maybe you're thinking of HGH? I've heard that before, but I'm not positive whether or not it's substantiated. I know supraphysiological doses of HGH can make lots of tissues grow, especially soft tissues (i.e. cavernosa tissues in the penis). For Ex. Look at acromegally victims...big and out of proportion body parts, etc.

So, this is very possible, but def. not hCG.