1st post, intro, my next cycle to bulk quick

[ComputerNerd]

Hey,
I'm new here, just been browsing the forums for a while, thought I'd join for advice.

Intro: I'm 31, in good shape, very low bf, very vascular. I do not currently work out. I'm 5'8",143 lbs. I have not worked out in over 2 yrs.
Past use: when I was 19 I used androstenedione, dosed higher than recommended(used like 4 to 5 caps a day, I think recommended was 2, I don't remember the mg). I was stupid but that stuff worked. I started working out for the very first time under advice of an experienced bb. I got strong as crap at 19. I was about 130, and went up to 155 in about a month and a half on 6 week cycle. Was benching over 240 at my weight.
At 23, I was down again to 140, and wanted to bulk. I ran CEL Phera Plex and got up to about 153 little bloated. When I came off, I didn't have an AI or pct. Found a good doc that started me on 250mg test cyp ew. I stayed on test at 250mg ew for about 6 months then doc bumped me to 280mg test cyp ew . I stayed on 280 for another 6 months. I also ran CEL h-drol once during that time and got pretty huge. People started noticing and started saying steroids are bad for me. Long story short, that 280mg ew stopped due to blood work that showed to high test lvls. I normally was testing at 900 on day 7. After running hdrol, I went in for blood work and my test levels were 1400. Other blood levels were bad, my wife convinced me to stop. In a year I went from 140 lbs to 185lbs. Strength was through the roof and I was huge for being 5'8".

I found a new doc about a yr ago. I have been on 200mg test cyp for about a yr.(not working out,ha). A waste I know. Test levels now are about 850, probably because I am not burning it up. It has kept me hard and vascular, even without weight training. I feel good, but I'm ready to put on some mass.

I have been watching the laws about PH for years. Watching things get banned and reading logs, and so on. Just get educated. Now that I'm older I want to be safe.

The present: I stocked up on PH a yr ago, have 2 bottles of powerdrol10, 2 of epi 2a3a, 2 of CEL h-drol, and one of CEL P-plex. More than enough to last a good long while.

From what I understand, powerdrol10 is superdrol. Epi 2a3a is epistane.
I just started epi, day 2 right now, running it LOW at only 10mg/day along with 200mg test cyp ew. From past experience I know how to eat, train, and supp. I am expecting good results, but want opinions.
I have read and read thread after thread about everything I can find. There's just so much conflicting info out there.
To bulk quick which should I run first with test and how would you do it(only 1 oral at a time) I'm not trying to kill myself:
SD for 2 wks at 20mg/day.
EPI for 4-6 wks 20mg/day.
H-drol 4-6 wks 50mg/day.
P-plex 4 wks 30/mg day.

I want to run as many healthy cycles over the next 12 months, just not sure on the order, and how long I should wait between orals.

I have all the basic cycle supps, not going to list everything, if you have ran a cycle you already know everything I have, there's no reason to list it out.

-thanks
The Nerd

 

[yates84]

You haven't worked out in 2 years but you want to jump on a cycle? You need to build your base back up before even thinking about cycling imo. Get your training routine and diet on point, lift and eat properly for a good year or two, then maybe think about cycling. Powerdrol is msten btw

 

[ComputerNerd]

I figured a few people would say I should build a base first. I appreciate the opinion, not discrediting you at all, I'm just not looking to bust my butt in the gym for a year to only gain 10lbs. That is probably the "way" it should be done, but, I have never built a base before and always had good results, and gained size and strength very quickly.
Muscle memory right? I should be able to jump back in and be able to pick back up pretty quick.
I already know my training routine, I did it for over a year with outstanding results. The routine is basically ingrained in my head forever. I know what works for my body and what makes me grow. My diet is already very clean, my weight stays consistent, I have very little bf.
Although I have not been in the gym for the past two years, my arms, shoulders, chest and back are still larger and much more defined than any average guy that has never lifted. I still look extremely athletic, people ask me if I work out...which I don't.

I preloaded creatine this past week, have been starting to take a scoop of protein before bed the last 2 weeks. I started bcaa's last week to get nitrogen in check and on par.
I'm doing everything I know to prep my body to get back in the gym.
I'm a big believer in antioxidants. Echinacea, green tea, matcha, vitamin D3, raw organic honey, organic raw cinnamon.
For the past two years, I have been researching and eating foods/ drinking teas high in antioxidants. Basically just being as healthy as possible because I'm getting older. People say I look 23 or 24, I think my diet has a lot to do with that.

I didn't know powerdrol was m-sten. That's news to me. I will have to look that up. From everything I read the Powerdrol 10 that I bought is a clone of superdrol.
Before I even go research this, is m-drol bunk? This may completely change my decision on what to run.

 

[ComputerNerd]

Vital Labs says it's msten and the active compound does match msten. I guess I got confused reading the prohormone dB site. It said it was a superdrol clone but the compound they have listed there is wrong. :-/
That actually makes me relieved, I was worried about taking SD because of liver toxicity.
I guess I will back off of epi in a week, and just split a 10mg of PD into two doses throughout the day.
Msten should be fine to run at 10mg a day I assume?

 

[Nitro41]

Havnt worked out in 2 yrs and want to jump straight into a roid cycle? I cant imagine any credible PH user or bodybuilder that would reccomend that. And thats for a reason! A shortcut at this point sounds like a big mistake to me.

 

[ComputerNerd]

I get what you're saying. I have read many posts of OP's that are just starting to lift for the first time(or are very young) and want to jump into a first cycle with no previous experience with training/dieting. I completely agree with you that someone who has never trained, never cycled shouldn't jump into a cycle because they have never had any experience and should build a base first.
I just can't really understand why you both say to wait and not jump in and start bulking. I'm just not following the logic. I'm in good shape, I'm healthy, my diet is good. I have ran 3 cycles in the past. I have past experience with heavy training.

The more I read about aas, I have found that it not only helps build muscle but increases muscle fibers. I contribute that to be the fact that my muscles are larger than average because I have more muscle fibers than someone that has never trained/cycled.
I have not even started "training" yet and just the creatine load this past week has made me look "muscular" and people are noticing, but I haven't been training at all.

What would be a good reason to not start an oral and put on some bulk/weight?

Let me regress : I said I haven't been in the gym for 2 yrs, what I meant to say was I have not trained in 2 yrs. I have lifted but not consistently...not true training imo. So when I said I haven't been in the gym, I mean I haven't "BEEN IN THE GYM" ha. I think you know what I'm saying. There's a huge difference in going once a week compared to training hard 5 or 6 days a week and being dedicated to a routine.
Even now, when I occasionally stroll into the gym I laugh because I am still bigger than a lot of the guys. I'm still pretty solid, vascular, very low bf. I don't even work my abs and you can see my 6 pack.
Not trying to brag or be ridiculous but I would say I already have a base, I just don't think I ever lost all of my gains (my size, yeah I lost my size and stregth) . At 5'8" 143 and size 28 waist, I look like a natural lifter that lifts several times a week. I'm 31, most guys my age that don't exercise have beer bellies are all flabby, have no definition. I definitely look extremely athletic compared to anyone my age that is a couch potato, but I am by no means a solid brick like I was when I was 185.

Not trying to argue, but what would be the negatives of going on cycle?

 

[yates84]

You are going to hurt yourself jumping straight on, your joints and ligaments aren't ready for all the extra stress yet. Also, you need to get a solid routine and diet in motion. That's all for me, I'm out. Good luck op

 

[IronAddiction]

You are going to hurt yourself jumping straight on, your joints and ligaments aren't ready for all the extra stress yet. Also, you need to get a solid routine and diet in motion. That's all for me, I'm out. Good luck op

^this x10

 

[Nitro41]

You are going to hurt yourself jumping straight on, your joints and ligaments aren't ready for all the extra stress yet. Also, you need to get a solid routine and diet in motion. That's all for me, I'm out. Good luck op

You can lead a horse to water, but cant make him drink....


Let me know how the weather is in Snap City this time of year OP....goodluck

 

[ComputerNerd]

Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate it. I guess I better rethink this whole thing. I definitely don't won't to get hurt.

I think this is good advice, but it's definitely a first time hearing this.
I'm glad I joined here. I don't have anyone in my area to consult with and get advice. This was the exact reason why I started this thread.
Is msten really that strong of a substance that I need to train for a certain time period before running a cycle?

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

2 years under your belt....you need to train a good deal longer before thinking steroids....and yes msten is a steroid. Oral...methylated...very toxic

What are your goals and IM sure we can help educate you with proper training and diet. 2 years of training I guarantee you are still learning how your body reacts to different exercises, routine, diets. Now you need to establish a foundation.

 

[ComputerNerd]

2 years!! I'll be an old man by then. Ha, jk

Goal is to bulk. I'll admit it's for aesthetic reasons only. I don't play sports, I don't compete in anything.
When I was BIG (185 that was big for me), my self esteem was through the roof. Getting hit on by women, all the stares, getting approached by the sexiest women all the time. Ahhh, It was pretty awesome. I got tons of compliments from the ladies in the most random places. Walking out of a gas station and getting hit on. Walking in a bar and get hit on before you get through the door. Women trying to take you home with them. Women buying you drinks. It was like a reverse universe where I was the meat! omg it was awesome. Someone that has never been "bodybuilding size" wouldn't know what I'm talking about.
The attention you get and everything that comes along with it. I truly miss it. I think my wife misses it as well, at least the body anyway.
Ya, I'm married, not doing this for the ladies, I'm doing it for me. And, maybe put a spark back in my marriage by being "hot" again. It's a confidence booster and there really isn't anything in this world that makes you feel like a king than getting randomly approached everyday by hot women.

Is this vain? Ha. Probably so, regardless, I did it before(in a year) and I feel pretty confident that now I know what works for me, I can get back there in less than a year.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

I meant if you only have 2 years under your belt you need a lot more.

 

[GoHardOrGoHme]

Best thing I can tell you to do is get back to your old form naturally. There are a lot of good natty supplements to aid this.

If it can be attained in less then a year, there is absolutely no rush to start adding hormonals.

 

[ComputerNerd]

True story - between the ages of 19 and 22 I tried every natural supplement on the market. I lifted weights, I would be so sore. I would drink protein shakes, take the nitro boosting supplements and took creatine. I could not gain weight or bulk up. I would only lean out. I actually lost weight. At one point I went from 135 down to 128. I'm not sure how or if I can post photo's on here but I would be glad to share photos from over the past 10 yrs and my struggle to gain weight or muscle.
When CEL brought p-plex to market I was very skeptical. I was skinny, kinda flabby, just all around normal looking. I had a weight bench and I would work out and never saw any results. I was that skinny guy.
I bought the p-plex, a scale and a little notebook.
I had no "base" to speak of. I was completely clueless.
I started taking the p-plex and lifting at home on my own bench. My basic routine was nothing special. I did dumbbell incline bench, decline bench, flat bench, flat and incline butterflies. I did dumbell hammer curls, regular curls, concentration curls. I did the Arnold shoulder press, front and side lateral raises. Dumbell shrugs and a few other exercises I don't remember the names for.
All I had was one small bench from Walmart and a set of the adjustable dumbell sets. They only went up to 50 lbs each.
In the beginning I was benching 50lbs. Ya, two 25 lb dumbells. I was curling 20lbs dumbells. I was doing lateral raises with 2.5 lbs. I was weak.
I started the p-plex and weighed myself everyday. Everyday I stepped on the scale I would write down my weight. After the first few days, I started seeing very small gains every day, half pound gain, the next day 1/3 pound gain and so on...for the rest of the 30 day cycle. I didn't lift super heavy weights. I pushed myself and took it seriously. I was determined I was not going to be the small guy anymore. No more skinny jokes, no more jokes about being 100lbs dripping wet. I was sick of it.
During that first cycle I gained weight, I gained muscle, size and strength. Was I a bodybuilder? No. Was I super human huge and strong? No. Was I ready to jump out and compete? No.
Did I hurt myself? No. Did I have any sides at all? No. Was it the single best thing that really changed my appearance? Yes.
My face filled out, my shoulders widened, my chest and arms were noticeably larger.
I gained about 15 lbs in a month. I felt amazing. Adding 15 lbs onto a 5'8" frame with no body fat to speak of is a drastic change.
I was hooked. I knew I wanted to be bigger, I knew that I really enjoyed weight lifting.
I decided to join a real gym and learn how to use all the equipment.
I was working one day and my buddy said, "have you heard of that place.." I said huh? He said, "I see your into weight lighting, you should go check it out". I thought about it for a month or so, and then went by to check it out. What was it? A TRT clinic. Did I need TRT? I didn't know. Could my reason that I had never gained any weight or muscle have been a symptom of low test my entire life?
My test levels were 280. Doc said that I had the test lvl of a 70 yr old man.
I started TRT. Read back to my original post. I was skeptical. Is 200mg of test enough to actually make me grow? Would this work for me?
Wow, TRT changed my life. Got on and stayed on for a year. I religiously worked out everyday afterwork. I could go on and on about that year and how things changed...Muscle definition, size, strength...but I wont.
The results were not quick but I was gaining little by little and I just kept sticking with it.
I found a workout buddy while at the gym one day. He was running a cycle. He was a pretty big guy. He was running some veterinary grade stuff he bought from a ul, and sticking himself with pins from the pet store. If I remember correctly he was running equipoise at 400mg e/w. He tried to get me to run it but I was happy with my test cyp at 280mg/week.
I remember him laughing at me when I told him the dose. He said he was doing a 12 week cycle and asked how long I was running mine. I told him, indefinitely. He thought I was crazy. So he did his 400mg vet gear for 12 weeks and I did my trt. He was getting bigger than I was very quickly. He was a monster, about 6'3", I was so jealous.
At the end of his 12 weeks he stopped coming to the gym as much and I just kept on going everyday. Fast forward several months, I was now 185lbs, 30 inch waist. I ruined 2 church suits, split the back out while putting them on. I could not no longer put any of my t-shirts on without my wife helping. It became such a hassle to put my old clothes on and take them off, that I packed up my old clothes and had to buy new clothes.
In a year, I went from a little skinny guy to massive and gained around 45lbs in a year. I will post photos if I can figure out this app.
My transformation would not have been possible without aas.
I do not feel like I abused aas. I used it as a tool. I was not on some superdose, or even on the recommended 500mg/week that I see thrown around everywhere as a "starter dose". I have always wondered what 500mg would do, but I still got amazing results through hard training, even on my small dose. I never experienced any sides or ever hurt myself..at all.
When my buddy finally did show back up at the gym, he saw how big I had gotten, and he just stopped coming altogether. I was now the beast. I was the guy that everyone was looking at in the gym. I still remember it like it was yesterday.

So this ended up being a short novel. I apologize. Could you get hurt from jumping on a cycle? I guess if you guys have seen it happen then it must be true. Did it happen to me? Nope, not at all, not even a little.
140lbs to 185lbs. Best year of my life. I'll get back there eventually.

My original post was, which would be better to run for moderate gains? I'm just going to run the msten and I'll do a log with before and after pics. I'll be sure and grab a newspaper with the date to validate my gains.

I'm not condoning the use of aas. People abuse all sorts of things and aas are no different. You CAN get hurt, you could even die. I believe that moderation is key. There is nothing wrong with going slow. There's nothing wrong with being natural either. To the guys out there that have great genes and can actually make gains naturally, you guys are blessed. For me, and I imagine many other guys out there like me, we struggle. No one wants to be the little guy.
I'm not giving advice to anyone, just speaking from my experience.
Stay safe, be careful, go slow.

I guess this thread is done.

 

[hochaser]

There's always a right way and a wrong way to do things.. I've done both. You've got excellent advise from this thread n I believe you should follow it.. Having said that, I've hopped straight into a cycle from a year plus of no gym activity. Mind you my job kept me in good physical condition..

My suggestion is that you definitely should hold off a lil n try n gain as much knowledge as possible before beginning. Make sure you have ai's and ur pct set as well as on cycle supports.. set yourself up for success as best you can. Yes ideally you should wait, get some natty time in, develop your base etc.. However I do believe you can achieve great results regardless.. I utilized a cycle to catapult me from mediocre to above average and then just kept the ball rolling, lol. I know I'm in the minority here, and absolutely respect the members and knowledge contained in this board, but I believe if you start small, cover all your bases n train eat n sleep wisely you can make use of a light/beginner cycle.. either ways best of luck man

 

[ComputerNerd]

Thanks hochaser. I appreciate the kind words. I'll try and start up a log soon and let you know how it goes.