Who has done methyl-dien at higher doses?

[shootmeagain]

I'd be interested in hearing from people who have used methyl-dien at higher dosages (12mg-20mg). I'd like to know:

1. What dosage did you use? (And what pattern; 2x daily, 3x daily..., 4 weeks, etc...)

2. Did you stack it with anything? If so, what?

3. What types of positive results did you achieve?

4. What types of negative sides did you experience?

Thanks tons!

 

[B5150]

M-Dien -- The Reference Point Thread

 

[pcn]

I used it with a cycle of Trimax for 5 weeks (Trimax 4 weeks). Doasages were Trimax 1111222222222233333332222111.
I also added:

Mdien 16 mg ED (4@4mg)

M5aa 20 mg mornings, 60 mg pre workout

Sesathin 3 ml x 3 daily

No negative sides, some lethargy at varied intensity. I think it helped reduce the muscle loss even though during the cycle my stength went down. Strength came back up within 2 weeks off. Near the end I thought I had lost some hair, but after taking some time not obsessing about it and reevaluating, I think it was just paranoia on my part caused by too much reading. I am happy to answer any specific questions. Here is a link to my review of the Trimax/MDien cycle:
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24621

 

[shootmeagain]

Thanks for those replies and the link to the ref thread (B5150). I have read it recently, however, it is a bit scattered in terms of dosages and helpful info. That is, not everyone who responded gave complete answers to the request as posed by strat... and some just flat-out ignored certain questions, such as stacking info, duration, sides, etc.

It's certainly nice to have that (and the other ref threads), but for my purposes I'll still ask for replies to THIS thread, specifically those who have used 12mg-20mg and, if viewers/posters will please, address the four basic questions I have posed.

(Of course, if you DID cover it in the ref thread, then no need to duplicate the info here.)

Thanks.

 

[B5150]

1. What dosage did you use? (And what pattern; 2x daily, 3x daily..., 4 weeks, etc...)

ramped 12-16mg over 6 weeks. 4mg 3-4x/d

2. Did you stack it with anything? If so, what?

1,4boldione @1g/d. Trimax ramped up to 3caps (2.5-3 weeks at 3 caps) a day for 4 weeks.

3. What types of positive results did you achieve?

Increased strength and added some LBM while losing BF at a defecit of about 800+ calories.Lost about 2.5 inches off my waist.

4. What types of negative sides did you experience?

rather depleted/flat while on Trimax. Hair loss was accelerated at about 2-3 weeks into cycle.

 

[Skark]

I'm 2.5 weeks into a cutting cycle with 12mg MDien, two equal dosages. I'm 6' 1" and started the cycle at 216.5, and am consuming only 1750 cals/day. My weight this morning is 216.25 and am not bloated. No sides

What I'm saying is that this is a great cutting tool. Adding M5AA as a strength gain agent would make it even better.

 

[s.norman]

1 i used 40mg/day for 5 weeks
2 stacked w/ 4ad cyp, 1-test cyp, tren, and mdht
3 harder physique and more striations esp. in delts. i felt that it is stronger than mohn for me and may be my fav. oral to date.
4 some lethargy and lower back pumps though not as bad as m1t-taurine took care of that

 

[RobInKuwait]

1. What dosage did you use? (And what pattern; 2x daily, 3x daily..., 4 weeks, etc...)

10mg, ramped it up to 12-14mg (split into 2Xdaily)

2. Did you stack it with anything? If so, what?

M5AA, ramped from 60mg up to 100mg, 4-5 ED
Trimax, 111112222222222211111 or something like that, ECA after Trimax.

3. What types of positive results did you achieve?

Lots of fat loss with minimal muscle loss. Went from around 15% to around 11% over the course of a month.

4. What types of negative sides did you experience?

Higher dose of M5AA interacted funny with MD on me. Just made me feel uncomfortable. I think MDien shut me down hard and the MDHT from the M5 made me feel unpleasant. I don't like running M5 or MDHT without running 4AD simultaneously. Makes me feel unpleasant. Libido was non-existent with the MD/Trimax.

 

[shootmeagain]

Excellent! This is just what I was looking for. Thanks very much for responding.

Has anyone either done, or heard, of anyone stacking 4-AD with methyl-dien? I know the early info on it said not to do this, but I think the logic behind it was largely de-bunked.

What other PH products would, in theory at least, make a good stack partner with methyl-dien?

I'll throw this out there, how about methyl-dien and 4-OH?

Still looking for more answers if you've got one to the first 4 queries of this thread.

 

[LuckyBoy]

I'm currently into a 4ad and m dien stack. I was originally running mohn and m dien but I got way too dry and joint pain was off the wall plus I got the cold from hell after maybe 3 weeks so I switched to 4ad. I'm now using 10 mg m dien with about 240 mgs trans 4 ad. I realize its not a huge amount of 4ad but usually I get really bloated off it and since this is a cutter I want to se my progress. So far I've loved it and it's countered the "dien dick" epidemic that was occuring with higher doses.

 

[LuckyBoy]

Oh and no gyno to date, if that's what you were referring to. I also remember somebody mentioning doing a 4ad mdien cycle and being the best theyve run to date with no gyno to report. Maybe it was in the cycle log section?

 

[shootmeagain]

I found a cycle with 1-AD/4-AD and methyl-dien by FOCUS. I don't think this is the one you were referring to though.

Anyway, thanks for that reply as well. I'm trying to discern what to do for my next cycle and methyl-dien could certainly be a part of it, it is just more of an issue of what to stack with it. I am not looking for it to be a mass stack nor much of a cutter either, simply a strength gaining, muscle retaining, recovery enhancing, cycle.

Or maybe I should just say, I want the Holy Grail. LOL Seriously, thanks for the help.

Anymore replies?

 

[milwood]

someone suggested (for reasons too advanced for me to cite) that 4AD and MDien are not advisable together. Possibly progesterone issues. Someone will know for sure, ask around and search.

 

[colkurtz_spf]

I found a cycle with 1-AD/4-AD and methyl-dien by FOCUS. I don't think this is the one you were referring to though.

Anyway, thanks for that reply as well. I'm trying to discern what to do for my next cycle and methyl-dien could certainly be a part of it, it is just more of an issue of what to stack with it. I am not looking for it to be a mass stack nor much of a cutter either, simply a strength gaining, muscle retaining, recovery enhancing, cycle.

Or maybe I should just say, I want the Holy Grail. LOL Seriously, thanks for the help.

Anymore replies?

I cycled 10 mgs of MD and 16 of MOHN for 30 days. I didn't have joint pain or a decrease in libido. I was on a strict diet so gains were modest. Overall I was pleased. It did what I wanted it to.

 

[shootmeagain]

someone suggested (for reasons too advanced for me to cite) that 4AD and MDien are not advisable together. Possibly progesterone issues. Someone will know for sure, ask around and search.

Milwood, yes, but I believe this idea is from the 'early' info I was referring to. I've since seen several say that progesterone is not at issue with methyl-dien. And many people who have used it have not had sides that would indicate that either.

Still, I'm not sure what to think, and like you I have to say understanding this compound's structure and mechanism is beyond me since their is no clear and solid data source. I have to go by real-world usage and reports from others.

Myself, I have run methyl-d as high as 12mg daily with no real side-effects other than shrinkage. I typically felt real good on methyl-dien and got a little sensitive nip issue during PCT, but it was short-lived.

Thanks for the reply though. Does anyone KNOW if methyl-dien causes an increase in progesterone? (Not just 'have heard')

Thanks for all these replies ppl (thanks colkurtz).

If anyone else can share their methyl-dien cycle info and experience in this thread, please do. Thanks.

 

[LuckyBoy]

There was some blood work done by SS either when this was being tested or shortly after and the progest came back very low. Most of the worries was coming from just looking at the compound on paper.

 

[blakkstarr]

I've done Mythel D at 60mgs dosages- split 3 times a day at 20mgs a shot.. Very good results rockhard definition, phenomenal strength increase, maybe 2nd next to M1T. But all that saying I really did'nt like the floppy limp dick that MD gave me, MD seems to shut me down hard so PCT is unpleasant as well.. My last cycle at the above dosages left me so frustrated about the limp willy that I tossed the remaining bottle of MD.

 

[B5150]

I've done Mythel D at 60mgs dosages- split 3 times a day at 20mgs a shot..

ex-squeeze-me... :blink:

 

[T-Bone]

I've done Mythel D at 60mgs dosages- split 3 times a day at 20mgs a shot..QUOTE]


You should have put down the crack pipe before you planed the cycle!.

 

[BryanM]

Thanks for the reply though. Does anyone KNOW if methyl-dien causes an increase in progesterone? (Not just 'have heard')

All nandrolone derivatives act directly on the receptors they also increase prolactin

 

[MarcusG]

All progesterone derivatives are infact progesterone so yes in a way they act directly on the receptors they also increase prolactin

No, mdien is a nandrolone derivative and does not increase prolactin.

 

[BryanM]

My bad its not a progesterone derivative its a nandrolone one but by it being prostagenic (meaning it can bind to the progesteron-receptors, progesteron in women causes breasts to grow and the milkproduction to start, so in men it does the same and couple that with the estradiol + estron production and things won't get any better)

 

[BryanM]

But here is an article on progesterone gyno by Pheedno a very knowledgeable bro from AR

Progesterone induced gynecomastia? Don't think so
I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia.

Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren? Deca? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.

There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though

Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.

This is mainly speaking of tren and deca but MDIEN as well as M4OHN are all nandrolone derivatives so this refers to them as well.

 

[MarcusG]

My bad its not a progesterone derivative its a nandrolone one but by it being prostagenic (meaning it can bind to the progesteron-receptors, progesteron in women causes breasts to grow and the milkproduction to start, so in men it does the same and couple that with the estradiol + estron production and things won't get any better)

Then do you realise that the article above which you posted has the author saying that he has never came across a documented case of "progestogenic gynecomastia".

What do you mean by "couple that with the estradiol + estron production (from mdien?) and things won't get any better"?

And it doesn't explain what you mean by "they [mdien] also increase prolactin" in your earlier post when it doesn't.

 

[BryanM]

The above article was more relating that increased progesterone itself is not the culprit.

It is the fact that nandrolone derivatives themselves are weak progestins and the bind directly to the PR. I think Deca binds about 20% and Tren binds at about 60% of pure progesterone I have no idea what Mdien would be but it is much more structureally closer to tren then deca. Because the can act directly on the PR they cause an increase in prolactin production.


Now If there is an abundance of estrogen from an aromatizing compound like 4ad or test then you have more of a problem to form what is called progestenic gyno but if you keep estro in check then there is no problem this is why it was originally advised against stacking mdien with 4ad.

 

[blakkstarr]

I've done Mythel D at 60mgs dosages- split 3 times a day at 20mgs a shot..QUOTE]


You should have put down the crack pipe before you planed the cycle!.

Maybe I should have.. Live and learn... The dosage gradually increased from 20mgs to 40mgs to 60 mg over 4 week cycle- I concur not a very thoughtout cycle, not really planned just happened like that due to decreased effects at 20mgs, 40mgs.. Although I ran it alone- I suggest stacking with M4ohn- worked well, when I ran the cycle I only had Meythl D and did'nt want to spring for anything else- this was back when PH's were available..

 

[MarcusG]

All nandrolone derivatives act directly on the receptors they also increase prolactin

It is the fact that nandrolone derivatives themselves are weak progestins and the bind directly to the PR. I think Deca binds about 20% and Tren binds at about 60% of pure progesterone I have no idea what Mdien would be but it is much more structureally closer to tren then deca. Because the can act directly on the PR they cause an increase in prolactin production.

Sledge did mention the possible risk of stacking estrogenic compounds like 4ad with a little known new steroids like m-dien in the writeup on his website when it first came out.

And prolactin increasing again? Are you sure about this.

 

[B5150]

due to decreased effects at 20mgs, 40mgs..

How long did you run it at 20mg before you considered it to have decreasing effects. M-D is slow acting, taking up to 10-14 days to really experience a profound effect.

 

[CEDeoudes59]

I'm linking this ongoing log:
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26150

MD ran at 12mg for cutting, guy has actually gained strength!

 

[B5150]

MD ran at 12mg for cutting, guy has actually gained strength!

Good link. This is an example of an effective MD cycle. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was at a very low deficit and on trimax and lost about 16-18lbs/2.5" off waist and got stronger (couple PR's) on 12-16mg. I believe many reports of effectiveness (or lack of) have a great deal to do with diet and training. MD was one of my most favorite and productive cycles even at a deficit.

 

[T-Bone]

Good link. This is an example of an effective MD cycle. I mentioned earlier in the thread that I was at a very low deficit and on trimax and lost about 16-18lbs/2.5" off waist and got stronger (couple PR's) on 12-16mg. I believe many reports of effectiveness (or lack of) have a great deal to do with diet and training. MD was one of my most favorite and productive cycles even at a deficit.

Mine also. I ran it at 20mg for 8 weeks. I have a "semi-log" on here somewhere. What I mean by that is its not really a detailed log, I just gave me results here and there. I just finished PCT. PCT sucked though because I got sick about 1 week into it. Still maintaining my strength gains but got a little fat due to the sickness.

 

[shootmeagain]

T-Bone, did you stack anything during your MD cycle?

 

[T-Bone]

M5AA, MDHT at the end

 

[Kristopher]

Did 10mg/ed for 5 weeks, started it off with 2 weeks of m1t/trimax
stacked with 40mg M5 PW

Was cutting, lost like 20lbs while gaining strength, i liked everything about this compound except for the acne and libido loss.

 

[s.norman]

it seems that m-dien is not hard on liver b/c even after several weeks at 40mg/day my ast and alt were in normal ranges. iam looking forward to using this again for my summer cycle in june-great stuff for bringing out the cuts.

 

[milwood]

it seems that m-dien is not hard on liver b/c even after several weeks at 40mg/day my ast and alt were in normal ranges. iam looking forward to using this again for my summer cycle in june-great stuff for bringing out the cuts.

40mg of MDien!!! -I just have this picture in my head of the first bottle I got of 90 X 1mg tabs from Kilosports for which I shelled out north of $50.00. Hmmm....that's 2 days worth!!! Of course, at the time, it was 3mg daily recommendation, right?

I actually like MDien at 12mg/day, which of course ended up selling bottles for $10 pre-ban! Live and learn.

 

[dingobite]

Useing it again myself went three weeks at 9mgs a week dropped my calories to 1500 or under and i lost 6lbs and a half inch off the hip. Soon as i picked up the calories on my 2 week Pct weight jumped right back on.

Im on it again now 12mgs a week i should up the dosage cuase im not seeing much but vascularity, legs have more lines also from the last three weeks and and now on my 5thh week of MD.



Almost forgot if i miss any sleep lethary from MD shuts me down so hard i dont want to hit the weights.

 

[s.norman]

40mg of MDien!!! -I just have this picture in my head of the first bottle I got of 90 X 1mg tabs from Kilosports for which I shelled out north of $50.00. Hmmm....that's 2 days worth!!! Of course, at the time, it was 3mg daily recommendation, right?

I actually like MDien at 12mg/day, which of course ended up selling bottles for $10 pre-ban! Live and learn.

i have a shitload of powder so thats why i dose high. the md is an excellent cutter so i cap em myself. i scored a great deal pre-ban and i am glad that i got this cutting wonder