[atrain]

Its quite obvious that people are gaining crazy amounts of weight on Superdrol. I was wondering how many cals over maintenance people were eating when gaining weight?

[milwood]

I would go 400-500 cals/day over maintenance for SD to max the gains. Some might say more, but you don't want to get too fat.

[Syr]

I would go 400-500 cals/day over maintenance for SD to max the gains. Some might say more, but you don't want to get too fat.

Yes, dont go above 500 or you would get fat.
I would suggest to not up the carbs too much and to eat at least 1g protein per lb of bodyweight.

[DR.D]

People like Twin Peak stress upping carbs on SD. I suspect protein increase may be even more important, because I still got hard, pumped and vascular even on regular amounts of carbs. But everyone's metabolism is different. It's a bulker, so protein is a safer choice if you exceed maintenance anyway, if you want to avoid gaining fat. Just drink lots of water!

[SJA]

I just finished a cutter using SD. I wanted to weigh out the opinion about the carbs being crucial as well as water retention issues.

beginning weight 183
Ending weight 186
weight 1 week post 183
BF% before 11% after 8% (3 point measurement)
SD @ 30mg

calories (cyclic from 1400 - 2300) 40/40/20 (except on low carb days)
cardio - moderate intensity on cross trainer 30 minutes each day
lifting - two heavy compound movements with rest (3 sets each)....then circuit training and/or drop sets (another 4-6 movements 3 sets each) 5 day split

I'm an ecto/meso. I retain a lot of water weight when bulking (I like wet stacks) so I know what water retention is like. I can easily drop 8 pounds of water post cycle when using 4AD or M14ADD. I bloat easily and lose muscle easily if I'm not careful during a cut.

So here are my personal opinion/observations.

My strength stayed up more than it would normally on a cutting cycle. Obviously it wasn't on par with a bulk, but actually pretty close. I can gage this from my workout partner because we are pretty close in strength. He out-repped me on most lifts but not by much (he weighs in at 235 )

Water retention was definitely there. I looked tremendously better in the AM than in the PM. Although this is normal when you get lean, it was much more apparent to me this time for some reason. The water loss at night was seemingly ALL subcutaneous.

I didn't feel the "crazy strength" that I did the first time that I used SD. Although that time I was stacking it with 1-T/4AD so it's hard to compare.

I definitely had massive pumps (to the point of cutting some workouts short or switching muscle groups) again. I wasn't feeling the pumps until the 2.5 week mark though whereas the first time I felt them at the end of the first week.

I'm not sure what else to say about it. I think that stacking this with something like M4OHN or MDHT and/or 1,4AD would be a great Summer stack. I don't think that you have to worry TOO much about water retention...but it is there to some degree. But you definitely look "blown" even in a calorie deficit and low carbs.

[DR.D]

SJA, that's intresting. If it took you 2.5 weeks to feel the pumps this time, it might suggest that carbs do play a signifigant role, but if you still held water with low carbs, I'm a bit confused. Anyway, I think your one of the first success stories I've seen using SD to cut. If you gained 3lbs yet still lost 3% BF, that's not bad my man!

[Twin Peak]

SJA, that's intresting. If it took you 2.5 weeks to feel the pumps this time, it might suggest that carbs do play a signifigant role, but if you still held water with low carbs, I'm a bit confused. Anyway, I think your one of the first success stories I've seen using SD to cut. If you gained 3lbs yet still lost 3% BF, that's not bad my man!

Yeah, there has been little success with this while cutting. I think it can be used while cutting, its just not its best use.

Also, I wanted to clarify, I don't think you need to go nuts on carbs, I just think that this is an awesome volumizer, so you don't want to be low carbing it either, or else you will not see its greatest benefit.

[DR.D]

Yeah, there has been little success with this while cutting. I think it can be used while cutting, its just not its best use.

Also, I wanted to clarify, I don't think you need to go nuts on carbs, I just think that this is an awesome volumizer, so you don't want to be low carbing it either, or else you will not see its greatest benefit.

Ohh yeah, sure, now try to change your story.. (J/J)

I guess I misrepresented your view point slightly. I just remember you stressing carbs a lot w/ SD. You were putting in mucho work at the gym though, so I figured your impression was environmentally influenced based on you training level. I'd need all those carbs too if I was doing 36+ set workouts.

[Snachito]

I've used Superdrol on a 3 on 2 off scheme and got a good 13lb increase. I only lost ten pounds after wards. I also had raised my calories to 500 over maintenance. Same benefit as others have had with strength also.

I've also been contemplating using Superdrol for cutting, but in a AAS stack. I posted my plan on two other websites, but haven't gotten any suggestions yet. But, it would be used the last three weeks of a TP/TA cycle. I figure it might give me that extra added hard look towards the end of a ten week cycle. Superdrol would of course replace Winny in this stack.
I haven't made up my mind just yet if I will do this though, so we'll see.

[NPursuit]

I'll be cutting with SD soon, and I'll be on a 40/40/20 diet. We shall see. I start the 1-test/m40hn portion of the cycle tomorrow.

[SJA]

SJA, that's intresting. If it took you 2.5 weeks to feel the pumps this time, it might suggest that carbs do play a signifigant role, but if you still held water with low carbs, I'm a bit confused. Anyway, I think your one of the first success stories I've seen using SD to cut.

I would agree that carbs make the difference in strength and weight gain....but they usually enhance these effects anyway (on or off cycle). Having still felt the pumps (and cramps) was interesting to me. 30mg is a high dose for me. The last time, I only went to 30mg for a few days before the pumps were unbearable. So there was a significant differnece in them.

If you gained 3lbs yet still lost 3% BF, that's not bad my man!

This actually has been one of my better cuts. I usually take too much weight too fast (my metabolism gets that freight train effect when I get it going). I kept my cardio short and lower intensity this time as well. That was a change for me too.

Yeah, there has been little success with this while cutting. I think it can be used while cutting, its just not its best use.

There are other PH/PS's which I would consider good cutters. My reasons for trying this were that I wanted something which kept my muscles "full", something very strong and something that kept me fairly dry. I think that SD definitely was one reason that I kept my mass fairly easier this time as well as my strength. I haven't had that before when I've ventured into single digits. As far as water, I had some extreme pisses at night and my weight would flucuate much more than normal from when I hit the sheets to when I got up in the morning. So I was retaining for sure.

Also, I wanted to clarify, I don't think you need to go nuts on carbs, I just think that this is an awesome volumizer, so you don't want to be low carbing it either, or else you will not see its greatest benefit.

Definitely an awesome volumizer. Your posts along with B5150's have inspired my trial. You guys are both endo/meso's. Your talk of carb volumizing while on SD got me to thinking. My problem (at least I think) is that my body eats up glycogen too quickly and I waste muscle because of it. I figured that if I used something like SD to keep glycogen "fullness" in the muscle, then I could retain strength and fullness while cutting (I tend to flatten out especially when <10%)
You guys, on the other hand, have the opposite problem and/or advantage during a cut. So I'm not sure if SD would be of use to you guys in a cut (maybe and endo will try this someday). You may respond better to M4, M5, MD, 1,4ADD etc..

Just for the record, I only had one cheat meal during this phase so that's the only real refeed that took place (about mid-cycle). I did cycle carbs, but not drastically. I did it more by "feel".

Tomorrow is Easter so I'm going to have a PCT cheat meal/evening. Then in a week I'm off to an all inclusive week of gluttony We'll see what kind of damage I can do prior to returning

[boomr]

i have also used it to cut, 20 mg ed for 6 weeks. I ended up weighing the same at the end...215, but 4% less bf (went from 16% to 12% using those cheap one click calipers). anyhow, i was very pleased with the results of sd for cutting, going to use it to bulk here in 2 weeks. looking forward to it.

[DR.D]

Well, that's impressive Boomr and SJA. All adrogens antagonize cortisol to some degree, but I know SD must drop it hard. There is really no other way to explain the fast, strong angiogenic effect. So I always figured it could be used to cut or at least minimize fat gain, but you guys have convinced me.

[Twin Peak]

Ohh yeah, sure, now try to change your story.. (J/J)

I guess I misrepresented your view point slightly. I just remember you stressing carbs a lot w/ SD. You were putting in mucho work at the gym though, so I figured your impression was environmentally influenced based on you training level. I'd need all those carbs too if I was doing 36+ set workouts.

LOL.

Most of my comments were in relation to folks who were cutting or skimping on carbs, or low carbing eat.

If you are bulking and eating above maintenance calories, and getting 40% or more of your calories from carbs, that should be plenty.

And yeah, my volume was high. I need to do that again soon.

[Beowulf]

I've used Superdrol on a 3 on 2 off scheme and got a good 13lb increase. I only lost ten pounds after wards.

Snachito, this is not good. Am I misreading this, or did you lose 10 of the 13lbs. that you gained?

[DR.D]

Yeah, that's what I was wondering too, that's only a 23% retention of his over all gain

[Snachito]

Sorry guys, I meant to say I gained 13lbs and lost three, so total was 10lb gain. LOL! gaining 13 then losing 10 would not be good!