View Poll Results: Do You Use Creatine During PCT?

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Do You Use Creatine During PCT?

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  1. Registered User
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    Question Do You Use Creatine During PCT?


    Do You Use Creatine During PCT? I did after my 2nd 1ad cycle but it just watered me down. I decided not too use any after my winter bulker b/c I wanted to maintain dry gains and I was hoping to use xCEEd but it wasn't out yet. I still might have sacificed some lean gains for not doing that.

    Feel free to throw down your 2 cents on this one.

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    It shrinks the balls
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    It shrinks the balls
    Beat it, you court jester.
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    I kick it in for PCT and post-cycle. I use CEE, and even so am a very low responder. I don't use creatine while on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by handzilla
    Do You Use Creatine During PCT? I did after my 2nd 1ad cycle but it just watered me down. I decided not too use any after my winter bulker b/c I wanted to maintain dry gains and I was hoping to use xCEEd but it wasn't out yet. I still might have sacificed some lean gains for not doing that.
    Its definitely a good idea to preserve your strenght, when your natural test is low and u feel down. Thats the main reason for which I would use it (and i do).
    xCEEd is not ready yet: Sledge has some delays
    CEE does not blow. Get a 100g of bulk til xCEEd is ready.
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    Talking


    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    It shrinks the balls
    hihihii
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    Sometimes I use it during PCT.

    I could see where it may give you the illusion of preserving weight gain -- by the added water retention.

    But can someone explain the science to me of how it actually helps preserve strength when your natty test is low?

    i mean are we just confusing water gain from creatine for the actual maintaince of gains?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    But can someone explain the science to me of how it actually helps preserve strength when your natty test is low?

    i mean are we just confusing water gain from creatine for the actual maintaince of gains?
    Can't give you the science part, but creatine is definately a strength increasing compound, and it is great to use during PCT. My PCT stack consists of:

    Nolva
    Creatine
    Bulgarian Trib (high proto)
    Avena Sativa
    ZMA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skark
    Can't give you the science part, but creatine is definately a strength increasing compound, and it is great to use during PCT.
    No science from me either but i can tell u that creatine acts in a completely different way than test and other hormones (if u respond to creatine of course).
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    Creatine will help you hold the size and strength gains from orals specifically. If your using an oral in your cycle, save the creatine for PCT.
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    good info. Superdrol is an oral!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deoudes59
    good info. Superdrol is an oral!
    OK, I guess I didn't say that right! That applies to ~95% of 17-AA steroids, SD is the exception. That's because most orals (17-AA steroids) bind with very low affinity to the AR. Mibolerone and Methyltrenbolone are 2 noted exceptions, and so must be SD I think. I'm just guessing, but it behaves more like a free alcohol (injectable) than an alkylated steroid IMO. Nevertheless, I would still use creatine after an SD cycle because SD probably works by both AR and non-AR mechanisms.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    OK, I guess I didn't say that right! That applies to ~95% of 17-AA steroids, SD is the exception. That's because most orals (17-AA steroids) bind with very low affinity to the AR. Mibolerone and Methyltrenbolone are 2 noted exceptions, and so must be SD I think. I'm just guessing, but it behaves more like a free alcohol (injectable) than an alkylated steroid IMO. Nevertheless, I would still use creatine after an SD cycle because SD probably works by both AR and non-AR mechanisms.

    DrD, how does creatine work synergistically with most orals as opposed to comon injectables? I don't get the AR analogy/reason.
    And is it during the cycle and PCT as well?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    DrD, how does creatine work synergistically with most orals as opposed to comon injectables? I don't get the AR analogy/reason.
    And is it during the cycle and PCT as well?
    17-alkyl steroids (orals) increase creatine synthesis for the most part and non-alkylated (injectables) increase protein synthesis mostly. That's why you should use creatine or an oral stacked with an injectable. You grow from both mechanisms. After a dbol only cycle, most people lose a lot of weight. But if they add creatine in their PCT, they would hold more of the gains. That's a very simple explaination for it, but that's why people stack an oral and injectable for best results. I think SD must do both, which would mean it has unusually high receptor affinity for an oral.
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    I haven't kept up on the CEE info. Which board sponser sells it and what amount should be taken.

    I am thinking I saw someone say 2grams pre workout and 5 post workout or am I mistaken?


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    I haven't kept up on the CEE info. Which board sponser sells it and what amount should be taken.

    I am thinking I saw someone say 2grams pre workout and 5 post workout or am I mistaken?
    2-3g/day is really all you need. It's A LOT more bioavailable than monohydrate, so why overdo it? I take it post-workout, but apparently even that isn't necessarry. custom and stryder (nutraplanrt) have it in bulk.
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    As usual, Dr.D is laying the knowledge on us in a most helpful way... thanks for that (it won't let me give you any more rep points til I 'spread the love', LOL!)

    I've always had a question about this from a different angle though. With methyls we always hear/talk a lot about liver concerns, and rightfully so, however, isn't it true that all PH/AAS (to varying degrees) also put additional stress on the kidneys? If that is, in fact, true, then wouldn't it be wise to lay off of creatine during PCT for that reason and perhaps also for the liver's sake... just to give these organs a total break after pushing them?

    I know that is a very general question about a wide-range of possibilities, and no, I don't think creatine is 'bad for you' or anything but any general comment on the question will be appreciated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shootmeagain
    As usual, Dr.D is laying the knowledge on us in a most helpful way... thanks for that (it won't let me give you any more rep points til I 'spread the love', LOL!)

    I've always had a question about this from a different angle though. With methyls we always hear/talk a lot about liver concerns, and rightfully so, however, isn't it true that all PH/AAS (to varying degrees) also put additional stress on the kidneys? If that is, in fact, true, then wouldn't it be wise to lay off of creatine during PCT for that reason and perhaps also for the liver's sake... just to give these organs a total break after pushing them?

    I know that is a very general question about a wide-range of possibilities, and no, I don't think creatine is 'bad for you' or anything but any general comment on the question will be appreciated.
    Ahh man, your too kind! Really, you guys are always teaching me so I contribute back whenever I can. Much luv!

    Creatine monohydrate always messes up my kidneys after about 2 months of straight use, so I just use it pre w/o and in low daily doses during PCT. Some stuff like DHT causes direct growth and repair of the kidneys while other stuff causes water retention and high BP which stresses them with high salt load and creatinine supersaturation. Kidney stones are always a threat with a rich diet if water intake isn't high. Your right though, all of it can be toxic to the kids and tren especially, so I definately will not fuss with you that a strong argument can be made to avoid creatine during PCT. I just use it because I save it mostly for that and not while on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    .............
    Creatine monohydrate always messes up my kidneys after about 2 months of straight use, so I just use it pre w/o and in low daily doses during PCT. Some stuff like DHT causes direct growth and repair of the kidneys while other stuff causes water retention and high BP which stresses them with high salt load and creatinine supersaturation. Kidney stones are always a threat with a rich diet if water intake isn't high. Your right though, all of it can be toxic to the kids and tren especially, so I definately will not fuss with you that a strong argument can be made to avoid creatine during PCT. I just use it because I save it mostly for that and not while on.
    ?? Messes up kidneys - Like how?
    I thought it was safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    ?? Messes up kidneys - Like how?
    I thought it was safe.
    I'll get super-saturated creatinine levels in my kidneys and it promotes infection. I have to acidify my urinary track (that is very inconvenient) and treat w/ AB's like methenamine to fix it. It does it every time I get greedy and push it past 2 months of use. It's not "safe". Kindney stones are a real hazard too, but it does appear to be an inherent risk.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I'll get super-saturated creatinine levels in my kidneys and it promotes infection. I have to acidify my urinary track (that is very inconvenient) and treat w/ AB's like methenamine to fix it. It does it every time I get greedy and push it past 2 months of use. It's not "safe". Kindney stones are a real hazard too, but it does appear to be an inherent risk.

    When you say its not safe. Do you mean its unsafe for those with renal disorders or simply unsafe period?

    There was a creatine controversy 3-4 years ago about claims that creatine could cause kidney stones and cancer, but I don't remember any problems with infections.

    All I remembered was that the risks were waaay overstated and there is really no scientific basis for the purported claims but studies actually strongly supported the safety aspect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    When you say its not safe. Do you mean its unsafe for those with renal disorders or simply unsafe period?

    There was a creatine controversy 3-4 years ago about claims that creatine could cause kidney stones and cancer, but I don't remember any problems with infections.

    All I remembered was that the risks were waaay overstated and there is really no scientific basis for the purported claims but studies actually strongly supported the safety aspect.
    No, the risks are real, but cancer I doubt. I used to work at a clinical lab doing urine, blood and serum testing so I know first hand. Renal probs tend to be recurring and usually just run in families. But, if your juicing and using creatine and eating 5000cals/day and not drinking enough water, it will get back to you eventually. I drink like a fish and it still gets me after awhile. I otherwise have no history of renal issues nor does anyone in my fam. Just play by the rules and listen to your lower back is all I'm saying. The infection is just a result of over saturation. Cystex works well to eliminate it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    No, the risks are real, but cancer I doubt. I used to work at a clinical lab doing urine, blood and serum testing so I know first hand. Renal probs tend to be recurring and usually just run in families. But, if your juicing and using creatine and eating 5000cals/day and not drinking enough water, it will get back to you eventually. I drink like a fish and it still gets me after awhile. I otherwise have no history of renal issues nor does anyone in my fam. Just play by the rules and listen to your lower back is all I'm saying. The infection is just a result of over saturation. Cystex works well to eliminate it.
    So what you are saying is that for the majority of people, supplementing with creatine in typical amounts carries a real risk
    of developing kidney stones unless they cycle off after 2 months or so?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarcusG
    So what you are saying is that for the majority of people, supplementing with creatine in typical amounts carries a real risk
    of developing kidney stones unless they cycle off after 2 months or so?
    No, maybe I'm just more sensative. I haven't really heard many other people complain. It depends on your metabolic disposition. I'd still cycle it though just because.
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    This might be the stupidest poll ever posted.

    If physically possible, and you are a normal, healthy intelligent individual that can read directions, drink water, and aren't pre-contest.... creatine should be taken at all times period.
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    Or is someone who doesn't respond to it. Why is it that some people feel absolutely no effect from creatine?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    No, maybe I'm just more sensative. I haven't really heard many other people complain. It depends on your metabolic disposition. I'd still cycle it though just because.
    LOL. And, you are a man of science? hehe
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    Quote Originally Posted by natedogg
    Why is it that some people feel absolutely no effect from creatine?
    Creatine monohydrate is an amazing supplement. In fact, it would not be a stretch to call it the most amazing bodybuilding supplement ever, to date.

    Study after study has demonstrated that creatine monohydrate is safe in most persons. Creatine is so widely used, that the populations that can benefit range from the very young to the very elderly.

    Science being science, however, has always tried to understand the specific conditions under which a substance or drug works, and those conditions under which it will not.

    So, not surprisingly, science has been looking for populations and conditions under which creatine is ineffective. It appears that one population has been found.

    A study by researchers at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, Canada has shown that for some persons with muscular dystrophy, a dosage of 5g of creatine daily does not have any significant effect on muscle strength, body composition or activities of daily living.

    It is well known that there exists a population of creatine non-responders. It is also known that the symptoms of muscular dystrophy vary across the population. It would be interesting to investigate the so-called non-responders out there, and see if any symptoms of mild muscular dystrophy are present in this population.

    Thus, if you are a creatine monohydrate non-responder, and if every other aspect of your lifestyle is ideal (diet, exercise, etc), consider seeing a physician. It may be indicative of a higher problem of which you are unaware.

    Do not panic, though. Most non-responders report no symptoms consistent with MS. It is, however, prudent to be sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    This might be the stupidest poll ever posted.

    If physically possible, and you are a normal, healthy intelligent individual that can read directions, drink water, and aren't pre-contest.... creatine should be taken at all times period.
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    I'm not calling the thread stupid, or the thread starter stupid, but the poll is stupid.

    Get on creatine, adjust dosage until you respond, and stay on it, (cycling or loading completely optional).
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    LOL. And, you are a man of science? hehe
    I'm not alone here buddy-boy. Charles Poliquin, one of the biggest creatine proponents ever, also suggests cycling it every 3 weeks. I guess your probably much smarter that he is too though. He's just a world-class trainer, and I've just been doing this kind of stuff since the mid 1980's. When were you born again? And yes, 3 week creatine cycles makes perfect sense to me for scientific reasons. You should be a bit more carful with all that "this is stupid" talk, because you are not going to learn any of what you obviously need to know with that ****ty ass attitude bro. Just some friendly advise, this is not BB.com, it's all about science here
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    For some reason, I lose alot of water after 2-3 weeks on creatine. Its almost as if my body was trying to achieve some sort of homeostasis. So I cycle off because it seems like a waste if its not doing anything. The first week feels damn good though all swole up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    scientific reasons.
    What scientific reasons ?

    From a scientific standpoint the 3 days on X days off cycle would seem to make more sense..
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    Quote Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    What scientific reasons ?

    From a scientific standpoint the 3 days on X days off cycle would seem to make more sense..
    Why just 3 days? I've never heard of that kind of creatine schedule. But the point that I'm making has to do with adaptation and tolerancer. This phemomena is also know as the law of diminishing returns and it can not be avoided. Enzyme induction is usually the culprit and dose can be increased to temporarily overcome it. In the long run, sides overtake benifits and you just have to stop. Either that or keep on with the same dose receiving no more benefit from it. Many steroids act by increasing creatine synthesis. This is no different than just taking creatine in the first place. After 2 weeks, the benefit starts to wear off. After 3 to 4 weeks, your creatine levels actually return to normal, but your creatinine excretion stays elevated. At that point, your just ****ing up your kindeys and that's it. You may not realize it now like I do went I go to long, but it will get back to you one day. Just like you don't feel the postate cancer, but just by using androgens you are planting the seeds and there is no way around it if you are genetically predisposed. Use creatine all year round if you like, but I'm trying to help you here. I used to run a full electolyte and analyte analysis on my urine weekly, and I know what it can do to you, so take this warning to heart or not. I don't have time to argue the point any further. As for me, I'll use creatine pre w/o and post cycle when creatinine excretion is low and my body could really use it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    ...... Enzyme induction is usually the culprit and dose can be increased to temporarily overcome it. In the long run, sides overtake benifits and you just have to stop. Either that or keep on with the same dose receiving no more benefit from it. Many steroids act by increasing creatine synthesis. This is no different than just taking creatine in the first place. After 2 weeks, the benefit starts to wear off. After 3 to 4 weeks, your creatine levels actually return to normal, but your creatinine excretion stays elevated. At that point, your just ****ing up your kindeys and that's it. .....
    Dr.D you say after some weeks, creatine levels return to normal and creatinine excretion stays elevated. Does that mean the water weight gained at the beginning will also be excreted (because creatine levels return to normal)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    After 2 weeks, the benefit starts to wear off. After 3 to 4 weeks, your creatine levels actually return to normal
    I challenge anyone to post proof of either of those theories.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    I'm not alone here buddy-boy. Charles Poliquin, one of the biggest creatine proponents ever, also suggests cycling it every 3 weeks. I guess your probably much smarter that he is too though. He's just a world-class trainer, and I've just been doing this kind of stuff since the mid 1980's. When were you born again? And yes, 3 week creatine cycles makes perfect sense to me for scientific reasons. You should be a bit more carful with all that "this is stupid" talk, because you are not going to learn any of what you obviously need to know with that ****ty ass attitude bro. Just some friendly advise, this is not BB.com, it's all about science here
    nonon.. you missed the joke.

    "just because" was listed as the reason. I tohught that rather funny coming from a man of science

    Guess the joke was lost. No offence my man
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    Quote Originally Posted by pu12en12g
    I challenge anyone to post proof of either of those theories.
    Man that's just common knowledge bro. This has been know since the early 50's. The info would be easy to find with a search I'd think, but you probably couldn't access the ref's I could offer. Besides, I wouldn't lie to you friend.
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    Quote Originally Posted by houseman
    nonon.. you missed the joke.

    "just because" was listed as the reason. I tohught that rather funny coming from a man of science

    Guess the joke was lost. No offence my man
    Sorry, man. These posts and allegations about the second batch of SD being bunk didn't have me in a joking mood last night, so I totally missed it alright! Call it a 'blond' moment.. but hey, as complexity increases, scientists have to say "just because" a lot these days!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by DR.D
    Sorry, man. These posts and allegations about the second batch of SD being bunk didn't have me in a joking mood last night, so I totally missed it alright! Call it a 'blond' moment.. but hey, as complexity increases, scientists have to say "just because" a lot these days!!
    Hey ****er. I'm blond. What exactly are you trying to say?


    No worries my man.
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