First PH Cycle - 1-Andro solo or stack with 4-AD

[Caretata]

Hey guys, I've been preparing for my first cycle for quite some time. I've done (most) of my homework. I have access to absolutely every drug on the planet (I have SERMS on hand), I have a doctor, who's willing to watch my back + I have bloodworks done and can repeat them whenever I need.

Now, for the cycle itself -

My first choice was running AMS 1-Andro at 300mg for 4 weeks + Al, followed by 4 weeks Toremifene 120/90/60/60 (if I'm shut down) followed by 4 weeks natural test booster + Al

BUT for the same $ I can get AMS Kit, which also includes 4-AD / Decavol. My question is, should I stick to 1-Andro only, or stacking it with 4-AD and/or Decavol will yield better gains without more side effects?


So, my options are

1) 1-Andro 300-400mg + Al

2) 1-Andro 200mg + 4-AD 200mg + Al

3) 1-Andro 200mg + Decavol + Al

Or

4) 1-Andro 200mg + 4-AD 200mg + Decavol + Al


Which would be the most effective/ with least sides?

Will there be any difference between the liquid and the capsuled versions?


Is it better to use 1-Andro solo at higher dose or stack it with 4-AD at lower dose?

I'm not entirely convinced that Decavol is worth adding. How it compares to the other two compounds?

And finally, are andro side effects a concern with 4-AD?



Thank you!

 

[yates84]

4 andro is mild and great for a test base but it does aromatize. I personally would run the 4 andro with it but be ready for any estrogen sides that might pop up. Have an ai on hand. Definitely get a serm for your cycle either way. No serm, no cycle.

 

[Caretata]

Is Arom X hood enough for on cycle Al or should I pick up ATD or Liquid Formeron? How the last two compare? (Because Formeron costs twice as much)

And last question, does Drcavol aromatize/ shut down and is it even worth adding in the stack

 

[yates84]

Are you stuck on the 1 andro? Halo is a very good first time ph, mild but real effective. Would be more than happy to help you set up either one

 

[Caretata]

I prefer to the test the waters with 1-Andro since is non-methyled and doesn't aromatize and is not supposed to shut me down. If all goes well, next cycle I might run Halo, but I want to start small...

The only thing I still can't decide is if I should run 1-Andro solo or add 4-AD / Decavol to it. As far as my research - 4-AD HAS andro side effects and Decavol DOES shut natural test down, so maybe I should stick with 1-Andro + Al for four weeks to keep things simple and see how my body will respond?

and if I decide to use 1-Andro solo, would the 2 ml/day dose be enough or should i buy a seocnd bottle?

 

[yates84]

Just run the 1 andro solo then, see how you respond at the 2 ml. I guess you don't have to worry about lethargy so 4 andro isn't much of a concern. I would still run cycle assist and use a serm

 

[Caretata]

I have a SERM on hand, but I thought cycle assist wasn't neccessary for 1-Andro?

And I think I'll run an Al alongside the whole cycle, just in case, because I'm slightly gyno prone. Should I get ATD or Formeron or Resveratrol?

And very last question - is the liquid form of 1-Andro really more efficent than the piills? (Because I have a better price for the pills + they are more convinenient)

Thanks for the help brother

 

[yates84]

Cycle assist does more than protect the liver, it keeps blood pressure in check. It also helps with cholesterol and lipids. I take it year around. I would get the formastane to have on hand, I'm using it now and it is working like a champ. You get a lot of it for the $ and you can use it through pct in low doses.

 

[jgntyce]

Cycle assist does more than protect the liver, it keeps blood pressure in check. It also helps with cholesterol and lipids. I take it year around. I would get the formastane to have on hand, I'm using it now and it is working like a champ. You get a lot of it for the $ and you can use it through pct in low doses.

do you take the cycle assist during PCT, or start again after PCT?

 

[yates84]

do you take the cycle assist during PCT, or start again after PCT?

During and after for me. You should preload before cycle 2 weeks, during cycle, and to the end of pct

 

[Caretata]

I really don't like the fact that forma is topical though, gels are pain in the ass...

Is ATD not good enough for the job?

As for now, my plan is:

Week 1-4: 1-Andro (2ml/day) + ATD (25mg/day)
Week 4-8: Toremifene + ATD (25mg/day) + Natural test booster

how does it look?

 

[jgntyce]

During and after for me. You should preload before cycle 2 weeks, during cycle, and to the end of pct

how about taking it during a natty cycle as well? my plan is PH cycle for 6 weeks, PCT - 4 weeks, Natty cycle - 6 weeks. thanks bro.

 

[yates84]

how about taking it during a natty cycle as well? my plan is PH cycle for 6 weeks, PCT - 4 weeks, Natty cycle - 6 weeks. thanks bro.

It won't hurt, I would

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I really don't like the fact that forma is topical though, gels are pain in the ass...

Is ATD not good enough for the job?

As for now, my plan is:

Week 1-4: 1-Andro (2ml/day) + ATD (25mg/day)
Week 4-8: Toremifene + ATD (25mg/day) + Natural test booster

how does it look?

why are you taking an AI during cycle with a non aromatizing hormone. save this for PCT.
also id stick with the pills.

 

[Caretata]

I'm gyno prone and a little paranoid Better safe than sorry, no?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

well not really.. how do you know your gyno prone? I thought this was your first cycle?

 

[Caretata]

Had a slight pubertal gyno when I was 16-17. It's gone now, but I guess I'm prone to estro sides and I really don't want it back..

Anyway, unless there's any negatives I prefer to run a low dose Al just in case

 

[bert45]

Do 1andro + 4andro for pct just run a otc pct such as form xt or erase you can add DAA in pct aswell as a test booster. (Nolva is not needed).

 

[yates84]

Had a slight pubertal gyno when I was 16-17. It's gone now, but I guess I'm prone to estro sides and I really don't want it back..

Anyway, unless there's any negatives I prefer to run a low dose Al just in case

Low estrogen has plenty of negative sides like low libido and achey joints. Just keep an ai on hand in case sides pop up

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

agreed^

 

[Caretata]

Okay then, I'm pulling the trigger.

Last questions;

pills vs liquid? (For AMS)

(I can get the pills version for a better price)

And dosing:

2ml/ day vs 3-4ml a day?

 

[yates84]

Get the pills, liquid has no real advantage and is a hassle to dose

 

[Caretata]

So the claims about potency are bogus? From their write up you get 20mg active compound from liquid vs 15mg (or less) from the pills

 

[bert45]

I liked the liquid but I guess its the same ish

 

[Caretata]

So, is running it at 2ml/200mg a day good enough or will it be a waste? Should I opt for a higher dose? (3/4ml/300-400mg)

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

300 mgs is were its at to start.

 

[Caretata]

That would mean 2ml / day in the liquid version, correct?

 

[blacklac]

Dont run 1-DHEA for only 4 weeks. You wont gain anything you can keep. It takes ~2 weeks for it to "kick in".

Also, do not use an AI with 1-DHEA.

 

[Caretata]

Why not?

Won't 4-AD convert to estro?

 

[Caretata]

Bump for last questionn got the stack right here with me and that's the last thing I need to get clear

 

[yates84]

Bump for last questionn got the stack right here with me and that's the last thing I need to get clear

Hold on to your ai and use it if sides come up

 

[blacklac]

Why not?

Won't 4-AD convert to estro?

I said with 1-DHEA, not 4-DHEA. Wasn't sure if you were using both or not.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

even with 4 ad.. don't use the AI unless you run into a problem. (itchy nips is not a problem) (sore nips may indicate a problem)

 

[Caretata]

I'm gonna run low dose 4-AD to battle lethargy/libido loss etc

Main compound will be 1-Andro @ 300/day

 

[Caretata]

Does Saw Palmetto interact with the effects of 1-Andro/4-AD or is it okay to take during the cycle?