Time on = time off

[MA$$BUILDER]

Where did this come from, and what study if any support this?
To me it seems that someone started this and everyone else followed it.

 

[houseman]

Where did this come from, and what study if any support this?
To me it seems that someone started this and everyone else followed it.

Why don't you post your reasoning for why it doesn't make sense.

 

[prolangtum]

It is just a good general rule of thumb. The longer the cycle, the more severe the shutdown, usually. Even with Proper PCT it can take a couple of months to regain total HPTA function.

 

[MA$$BUILDER]

I look at it like this. If one is to use for longer than 6 weeks, natural test is going to be shut down. So with that in mind lets say one person does a 12 weeks cycle and lets say another person does a 24 week cycle. Both are going to be shut down. Now using the rule time on = time off. The first person would have to be off for 12 weeks and the other person 24 weeks, to me that is bullsh!t. They both got shut down and i bet that their natty test is about the same when they come off. Also, are there any studies done that show how long it takes for test to return to normal? From my experience I have found that after an 8 week cycle I'm back to normal after about 3-4 weeks.

 

[MA$$BUILDER]

It is just a good general rule of thumb. The longer the cycle, the more severe the shutdown, usually. Even with Proper PCT it can take a couple of months to regain total HPTA function.

can you show me a study where it took months to recover? I would really like to see it.

 

[prolangtum]

you dont double the time off,12 weeks on, 12 off, not 24 off

 

[D_town]

It's also good to let your body be itself for a little while, for such little things as blood pressure returning to normal without meds. AAS puts a lot of stress on the body, not just shuts down natural test levels. Everything works harder. With your idea, I could use Swale's protocol for HCG and never need to come off if test levels is my only concern. Overall, I don't know of exact studies that specify optimal OFF time, I just believe it's better to your body to stay off AAS for as long as you're on, if not even more.

 

[Alpha Dog]

The answer is, it depends.

There are a ton of variables. How long is the cycle? Short, four weeks..... or longer, 10 to 12 weeks. What are you doing for PCT (estrogen antagonists, hcg, etc). Are you taking HCG during the end of the cycle? How suppresive were the androgens you were taking during the cycle? And finally (and most importantly), how old are you?

These are all very important variables in determining the length of time off cycle. Also, I have a theory (no documentation to support) that you should vary the amount of time off cycle to prevent physiological adaptations. For example, I typically stick with short cycles (30 days). Some times I will take 30 days for PCT and sometime I will take 60 days for PCT between 30 day cycles. Reason being is that If I continually cycle at 30 days on - 30 days off, I am concerned that my body will begin to try to predict the hormonal fluctuations and try balance natural output somewhere in between. This would result in an overall suppression in HTPA. Thus, I believe that you want to continually mix up the amount of time off with respect too the amount of time on cycle and still take into consideration the variables I mentioned above.

 

[MA$$BUILDER]

you dont double the time off,12 weeks on, 12 off, not 24 off

oops, you get the idea 12/12, 24/24

 

[glenihan]

its about giving your body a break from the stresses of exogenous hormones ... its not just about test production ... other concerns like what AAS do to HDL levels, etc exist ... as a general rule of thumb this allows your body to fully recover and then rest for a decent amount of time before being bombarded again by exogeneous hormones

 

[MA$$BUILDER]

Here is some interesting info. form meso.com

"Where AAS doses are sufficient for good gains, an interesting pattern is seen. For the first two weeks of the cycle, only the hypothalamus is inhibited, and it produces much less LHRH as a result of the high levels of sex hormones it senses. The pituitary is not inhibited at all: in fact, it is actually sensitized, and will respond to LHRH (if any is provided) even moreso than normally. After two weeks however, the pituitary also becomes inhibited, and even if LHRH is provided, the pituitary will produce little or no LH. This then is a deeper type of inhibition. After this point, there seems to be no definite further "switching point" where inhibition again becomes deeper and harder to reverse. As a general rule, I would say that there seems to be little difference between using AAS for 3 weeks vs. 8 weeks: recovery is about the same either way. Between 8 and 12 weeks, it becomes more and more likely that recovery will be difficult and slow, though even at 12 weeks it is common for recovery to not be too problematic, taking only a few weeks. Cycles past 12 weeks seem much more likely to cause substantial problems with recovery. In the hundreds of consultations I have done for people with recovery problems, very few (I can recall two) were for very short cycles such as 6 weeks, while most were for usages of 12 weeks straight or more."


The whole time on/ time off theory is bunk imo.

Also, i know why cycling is important, i'm not debating if it is or isn't.

 

[milwood]

Ditto to D_town and glen. It's about keeping health as (hopefully) one of the primary goals in bodybuilding. We are in it for the long haul.

 

[bigman420]

SHUTDOWN IS SHUTDOWN, USUALLY YOU SHOULD GO FOR 1-2 MONTHS ON STRONG PCT SUCH AS HCG, NOLVADEX, CLOMID, LETROZOLE, THE USUAL

 

[MA$$BUILDER]

Ditto to D_town and glen. It's about keeping health as (hopefully) one of the primary goals in bodybuilding. We are in it for the long haul.

I know the health reasons.

 

[MA$$BUILDER]

SHUTDOWN IS SHUTDOWN, USUALLY YOU SHOULD GO FOR 1-2 MONTHS ON STRONG PCT SUCH AS HCG, NOLVADEX, CLOMID, LETROZOLE, THE USUAL

So are you saying after one to two months, no matter how long the cycle, one will/should be recovered fully? If so, where did you get this info.?

 

[Skye]

So are you saying after one to two months, no matter how long the cycle, one will/should be recovered fully? If so, where did you get this info.?

I have heard that as well, I think that info was on anamals board. But even if you have recoved fully I still think it is a good idea to give it a rest as the other parts of your body can take years to catch up to the rest of you.

 

[JBlaze]

Also, are there any studies done that show how long it takes for test to return to normal? From my experience I have found that after an 8 week cycle I'm back to normal after about 3-4 weeks.

As was previously stated "time on=time off" is just a good general rule of thumb, and in no way is this always right. For example this rule becomes less true the longer the cycle. The only sure way to know you're recovered is to get a blood test done.

Also, thats great that from your experience you can recover after 3-4 weeks; however, this is not the case for everybody. Some will take longer to recover, it's different for each person, age group, and also depends on the substances used not to mention plenty of other variables.

can you show me a study where it took months to recover? I would really like to see it.

I think you may a bit lost on what studies are. However i wont address that.

In the past i've done a 12 week cycle and got a blood test 8 weeks later and everything was back to normal. Recently though, I did a 21 week cycle, got a blood test back and everything is still not back to normal after 9 1/2 weeks. Is it going to take another 10 1/2 weeks for me to fully recover? Hell no, in fact i'm planning a cycle in about 6 weeks, but for some it may take longer and others it may take less time.

Also, as was previously stated, theres so many other things you want back to normal besides just natural test. I think a lot of those who dont get blood tests forget this.