Where to start when considering first cycle?

[linuxjon]

Hey guys, I'm sure this is posted a ton, but I'm basically considering my first PH or peptide cycle and have utterly no idea where to start researching what I should be using. Just basic info like what I should be looking at using during a cut vs a bulk, what the side effects and claimed benefits are of a given substance, ect.

Right now, I'm a bit less than a year into serious lifting and am about 4 weeks into my first cut. I'm 6'3 227lbs right now, with a 285lb bench and 190lb military press. So definitely still beginner/intermediate lifter status. Looking to find something that will help me maintain or gain muscle mass and strength while I finish my cut down to ~200lbs.

Does anyone have links to good information I should read, or else specific suggestions for a cycle?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Jiigzz]

Hey guys, I'm sure this is posted a ton, but I'm basically considering my first PH or peptide cycle and have utterly no idea where to start researching what I should be using. Just basic info like what I should be looking at using during a cut vs a bulk, what the side effects and claimed benefits are of a given substance, ect.

Right now, I'm a bit less than a year into serious lifting and am about 4 weeks into my first cut. I'm 6'3 227lbs right now, with a 285lb bench and 190lb military press. So definitely still beginner/intermediate lifter status. Looking to find something that will help me maintain or gain muscle mass and strength while I finish my cut down to ~200lbs.

Does anyone have links to good information I should read, or else specific suggestions for a cycle

Thanks a lot!

This board and others like it is a good place to start.

My recommendation Is to work out longer before considering AAS use.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Well, you only started recently so I'd say natty for a bit longer. You will get tons of gains as is, your lifts are pretty good too, what about squat and deadlift? Possibly could add in a natural anabolic like xgels, but seeing as you are only a year in you still got newbie gains to get.

Of course, knowledge is a great thing to have. So, if you want information on prohormones/designer steroids look up tuned sports and check around here. Lots of good information floating around here. If you have specific questions like best cutter/bulker you should expect different answers as it is opinion based as everyone's body reacts a bit differently to compounds

 

[MuscleJ]

You can learn a lot from this site. Keep your head in the forums and learn.

 

[linuxjon]

Well, you only started recently so I'd say natty for a bit longer. You will get tons of gains as is, your lifts are pretty good too, what about squat and deadlift? Possibly could add in a natural anabolic like xgels, but seeing as you are only a year in you still got newbie gains to get.

Of course, knowledge is a great thing to have. So, if you want information on prohormones/designer steroids look up tuned sports and check around here. Lots of good information floating around here. If you have specific questions like best cutter/bulker you should expect different answers as it is opinion based as everyone's body reacts a bit differently to compounds

Hey, thanks for the response guys. As for the question about my other lifts, I wasn't very smart about things, and didn't start training lower body seriously until maybe five months ago. My DL is at 365 (horrible, but I have short arms) and my squat is at 335. Definitely need to get those numbers caught up to my bench and OHP.

i know that it's still early to be considering all of this, but if there is anything I can do to make the time in the gym more productive, I just want to be doing it now.

Based on the (very) limited research I'd done, I was looking at Vital Labs EPI 2A3A to help with this cut. I don't know if this would be a worthwhile option to consider or not. Also, I'm still looking for opinions on whether the PCT options you can buy from supp websites are adequate, or if I really should be ordering Clomid somewhere to be safe.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Hey, thanks for the response guys. As for the question about my other lifts, I wasn't very smart about things, and didn't start training lower body seriously until maybe five months ago. My DL is at 365 (horrible, but I have short arms) and my squat is at 335. Definitely need to get those numbers caught up to my bench and OHP. i know that it's still early to be considering all of this, but if there is anything I can do to make the time in the gym more productive, I just want to be doing it now. Based on the (very) limited research I'd done, I was looking at Vital Labs EPI 2A3A to help with this cut. I don't know if this would be a worthwhile option to consider or not. Also, I'm still looking for opinions on whether the PCT options you can buy from supp websites are adequate, or if I really should be ordering Clomid somewhere to be safe.

Oh boy, you are one of those top heavy boys? You should head over to the training part of the forum and get in on the squat challenge. Those are still not that bad, could be better, but seeing as you only started 5 months ago that is a good start. You can check out the supplement section and find great natural stacks or single supps for cutting. Personally I find it to be a waste to cut using an anabolic, just missing out on the potential, rather recomp or bulk on cycle. Epistane is known to be a good "cutter" as it drys you out and gains are lean. PCT is best served as a SERM, either research grade or pharma.

 

[Jerrad]

How old are you?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

if you want to take something that will help you with this cut I recommend you find a high grade fat burner and FORGET the hormonals for a few yrs. there are so many over the counter ergogens on the market right now that its silly for you to be thinking about taking such a leap that u end up on steroids.. and for what?
are you competing? listen man im not bashing u because your only here asking about this stuff. but so far what no one has told you is this really is a life altering descision. you will most likely regret if you screw it up.
the things that will help you naturally are much safer for you. they do have effects. ARA for example is great while on a cut and people love how it helps lean them out.. you can use it with a fat burner to amp up your progress! seriously weigh this out.. a life time of potential issues surrounding drug use.. or continue to build your base for several yrs until you really stall out. only then should u even consider using steroids and other drugs like peptides imo

 

[Blergs]

Hey guys, I'm sure this is posted a ton, but I'm basically considering my first PH or peptide cycle and have utterly no idea where to start researching what I should be using. Just basic info like what I should be looking at using during a cut vs a bulk, what the side effects and claimed benefits are of a given substance, ect.

Right now, I'm a bit less than a year into serious lifting and am about 4 weeks into my first cut. I'm 6'3 227lbs right now, with a 285lb bench and 190lb military press. So definitely still beginner/intermediate lifter status. Looking to find something that will help me maintain or gain muscle mass and strength while I finish my cut down to ~200lbs.

Does anyone have links to good information I should read, or else specific suggestions for a cycle?

Thanks a lot!

* proh is usually harsher and worse for body than just outright known non liver toxic steroids
I rec for first: 12-14 weeks of teste or cyp @ 500mg ew, an AI (dex 0.25-0.5mg eod wk1- start of pct, PCT 2 weeks after last pin of Clomif 50-70mg ed and 20mg tamox ed

for peps i would rec : MOD GRF 1-29 and GHRP 2 @ 100mcg 3-4x a day for 4-6months

highly rec and use CEMs for my research.
ohh and MT2 is pretty cool for tanning research ; )

 

[linuxjon]

Oh boy, you are one of those top heavy boys? You should head over to the training part of the forum and get in on the squat challenge. Those are still not that bad, could be better, but seeing as you only started 5 months ago that is a good start. You can check out the supplement section and find great natural stacks or single supps for cutting. Personally I find it to be a waste to cut using an anabolic, just missing out on the potential, rather recomp or bulk on cycle. Epistane is known to be a good "cutter" as it drys you out and gains are lean. PCT is best served as a SERM, either research grade or pharma.

Yeah, I'm definitely "top heavy". My natural build is just better for upper body training- I have 24"+ wide shoulders and shorter arms- so things like bench and OHP really come naturally. Squat isn't bad, but deadlift is terrible in terms of the huge ROM. I'm working on it- I'll get there.

My main concern isn't just losing the weight- I'm sure that'll happen. It's keeping the muscle mass I've built while cutting. I'm naturally really thin (was probably 175lbs for most of my life)- it was hard putting on the muscle and I'm trying to not lose too much size/strength while cutting the bf%

How old are you?

29

if you want to take something that will help you with this cut I recommend you find a high grade fat burner and FORGET the hormonals for a few yrs. there are so many over the counter ergogens on the market right now that its silly for you to be thinking about taking such a leap that u end up on steroids.. and for what?
are you competing? listen man im not bashing u because your only here asking about this stuff. but so far what no one has told you is this really is a life altering descision. you will most likely regret if you screw it up.
the things that will help you naturally are much safer for you. they do have effects. ARA for example is great while on a cut and people love how it helps lean them out.. you can use it with a fat burner to amp up your progress! seriously weigh this out.. a life time of potential issues surrounding drug use.. or continue to build your base for several yrs until you really stall out. only then should u even consider using steroids and other drugs like peptides imo

Aware me on ARA or suggest a specific non-hormonal supp I should look at that isn't a huge stim? I've been down the road of EC stack and 1,3 DMAA in the past and really want to avoid anything that's basically amphetamine-lite again in the future.

* proh is usually harsher and worse for body than just outright known non liver toxic steroids
I rec for first: 12-14 weeks of teste or cyp @ 500mg ew, an AI (dex 0.25-0.5mg eod wk1- start of pct, PCT 2 weeks after last pin of Clomif 50-70mg ed and 20mg tamox ed

for peps i would rec : MOD GRF 1-29 and GHRP 2 @ 100mcg 3-4x a day for 4-6months

highly rec and use CEMs for my research.
ohh and MT2 is pretty cool for tanning research ; )

MOD-GRF 1-29 is mostly a GH booster, right? Not familiar with GHRP 2. Do peptides like these require any sort of cycle support or PCT like the PH's do? And would I really be injecting 2 peptides 3-4x a day for 6 months? That's a LOT of needles.

I'm looking at PH's rather than traditional steroids because of legality and availability- I realize they are harder on your system.

 

[Jerrad]

If all you really care about is preserving muscle while cutting, then I would go with 11-oxo. @500-600mg you should have minimal if any shutdown or other sides, and because of this you can run a much longer cycle, which is often necessary for a cut.

 

[smshannon001]

* proh is usually harsher and worse for body than just outright known non liver toxic steroids I rec for first: 12-14 weeks of teste or cyp @ 500mg ew, an AI (dex 0.25-0.5mg eod wk1- start of pct, PCT 2 weeks after last pin of Clomif 50-70mg ed and 20mg tamox ed for peps i would rec : MOD GRF 1-29 and GHRP 2 @ 100mcg 3-4x a day for 4-6months highly rec and use CEMs for my research. ohh and MT2 is pretty cool for tanning research ; )

This ^^ ^^

I love ghrp2 (or ipamorelin) with mod grf1-29 also called cjc no dac on some sites

But as blergs said run it for at least a few months. It would help you stay lean and workout recovery is great and if you have any injuries it will help with that too.

The prolactin release from ghrp seems to be minimal so I doubt you world need caber or prami. I always have some prami on hand just in case though

 

[linuxjon]

If all you really care about is preserving muscle while cutting, then I would go with 11-oxo. @500-600mg you should have minimal if any shutdown or other sides, and because of this you can run a much longer cycle, which is often necessary for a cut.

11-oxo looks interesting. Any particular brand you'd suggest? Also, I assume I should still run some sort of PCT with this?

 

[linuxjon]

This ^^ ^^

I love ghrp2 (or ipamorelin) with mod grf1-29 also called cjc no dac on some sites

But as blergs said run it for at least a few months. It would help you stay lean and workout recovery is great and if you have any injuries it will help with that too.

The prolactin release from ghrp seems to be minimal so I doubt you world need caber or prami. I always have some prami on hand just in case though

GHRP2 looks interesting to me as well, but an injectable 3-4x daily?! Maybe that's the norm for peptides, I have no experience to know. But that's insanely more frequent than people I've known on "real" tech....

 

[Jerrad]

11-oxo looks interesting. Any particular brand you'd suggest? Also, I assume I should still run some sort of PCT with this?

I like smart powders, but they're out of stock right now. IMO OTC Pct are worthless, probably not to popular to say here lol. I would run a low dose short pct of a serm. Which is probably overkill, but at a low dose sides should be little if none so it won't hurt.

 

[linuxjon]

I like smart powders, but they're out of stock right now. IMO OTC Pct are worthless, probably not to popular to say here lol. I would run a low dose short pct of a serm. Which is probably overkill, but at a low dose sides should be little if none so it won't hurt.

Thanks man. Fill me in on what a Serm is? Would that be nolva or clomid? Sorry, like I said, I'm really new to this.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Thanks man. Fill me in on what a Serm is? Would that be nolva or clomid? Sorry, like I said, I'm really new to this.

Selective estrogen receptor modulator. And yes that is nolva or clomid

 

[Jerrad]

Yeah, nolva and clomid are serms.

 

[linuxjon]

Well, I have some things to think about now. Is there a reputable site where I could order either of those serms that delivers to the US?

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Well, I have some things to think about now. Is there a reputable site where I could order either of those serms that delivers to the US?

Check board sponsors for research grade stuff or you will have to go find a UG

 

[Jerrad]

Look in the Peptide/Research Companies sub-forum.

 

[linuxjon]

Check board sponsors for research grade stuff or you will have to go find a UG

Look in the Peptide/Research Companies sub-forum.

Thanks so much guys. Found exactly what I needed in terms of serms from a research co.

Last thing... what would you guys think about me stacking 11-oxo with a conservative dosage of epistane?

 

[Jerrad]

Depends on your goals. If cutting with little muscle loss is the goal, then 11-oxo is enough. The thing I like the most about the 11-oxo is the minimal shutdown. Throw the epi in there and there goes that. I would choose one or the other and not stack.

 

[linuxjon]

Depends on your goals. If cutting with little muscle loss is the goal, then 11-oxo is enough. The thing I like the most about the 11-oxo is the minimal shutdown. Throw the epi in there and there goes that. I would choose one or the other and not stack.

What is the "shutdown" you are talking about, and what effects do you actually notice from it?

 

[Abe Lincoln]

What is the "shutdown" you are talking about, and what effects do you actually notice from it?

Your natural testosterone system. from shutdown you can notice lethargy, libido issues, etc

 

[linuxjon]

Your natural testosterone system. from shutdown you can notice lethargy, libido issues, etc

Gotcha. Is there anything I could take to combat that, or at that point am I getting into a way more complicated/complex cycle?

 

[Jerrad]

Gotcha. Is there anything I could take to combat that, or at that point am I getting into a way more complicated/complex cycle?

Depends on what cycle you choose

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Gotcha. Is there anything I could take to combat that, or at that point am I getting into a way more complicated/complex cycle?

Well there is a lot of things to combat it, the best being pinning test. You don't want heavy shutdown so something like trest would be a bad idea as it is more suppressive than test, potentially something like bps dermacrine could be used to combat lethargy.

 

[linuxjon]

The more I look at it, the more I think 11 oxo and clen might be the way to go....

 

[Jiigzz]

Well there is a lot of things to combat it, the best being pinning test. You don't want heavy shutdown so something like trest would be a bad idea as it is more suppressive than test, potentially something like bps dermacrine could be used to combat lethargy.

Shutdown is shutdown.. there are no degrees of it. Either you are, or you arn't. There are cycles that the body finds harder to recover from (like 19 nors) but that's nothing to do with how "heavy" the shutdown is.

Any cycle where you introduce an exogenous hormone has the potential to cause suppression or shut you down. Bare in mind that OP is new to this and has a lot to learn about training an nutrition before taking the leap of hormone manipulation.

 

[Jerrad]

The more I look at it, the more I think 11 oxo and clen might be the way to go....

You better make sure you do your homework. Clen comes with it's own possible sides. If you unknowingly take a high dose of clen, you're going to ****ing regret it. Ever take an EC stack? Far better starting off with something like that.

 

[Abe Lincoln]

Shutdown is shutdown.. there are no degrees of it. Either you are, or you arn't. There are cycles that the body finds harder to recover from (like 19 nors) but that's nothing to do with how "heavy" the shutdown is. Any cycle where you introduce an exogenous hormone has the potential to cause suppression or shut you down. Bare in mind that OP is new to this and has a lot to learn about training an nutrition before taking the leap of hormone manipulation.

It has been said that trest is more suppressive than test, that is why they are looking to use it as a male contraceptive, at least this is my understanding.

 

[Jiigzz]

You better make sure you do your homework. Clen comes with it's own possible sides. If you unknowingly take a high dose of clen, you're going to ****ing regret it. Ever take an EC stack? Far better starting off with something like that.

Lol this. The shakes and heart rate is a hard lesson to learn, especially as it lasts 24hrs

 

[linuxjon]

Fair point about the clen.

Am most likely just going to go with 11 OXO, since it seems like the lowest risk proposition for my first cycle.

11 X by LGI seems to be the one I'm finding for sale everywhere. Is this a decent manufacturer?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

its a good company but id go for the topical verion of 11kt instead of trying to mega dose 11oxo

 

[Jerrad]

Fair point about the clen.

Am most likely just going to go with 11 OXO, since it seems like the lowest risk proposition for my first cycle.

11 X by LGI seems to be the one I'm finding for sale everywhere. Is this a decent manufacturer?

I have never used LGI before, so I don't know. I'm waiting for smart powders to restock.

 

[Iainsm]

Hi any advice on what to take for a bulk cycle and how much and what to take on my PCT any advice please kind regards T Bear

 

[Volvo140G]

Props to AM!

Really gave some sound advice and steered this guy in the right direction!