My post cycle stack

Nate Dawg

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My post cycle is still a few weeks away, but I have been putting alot of thought into it for the past few weeks to make it as good as possible. During the cycle I have been running 500IU HCG/week split into two doses, so that should help alot. Here is the stack that I came up with:

week1/week2/week3/etc...

Nolvadex: 60mg/60mg/40mg/40mg/20mg
Tribulus: 6g/day for 8 weeks
Lean Xtreme: 150mg/day for 4 weeks
Fenugreek: unsure of dosing, need to research it a bit more, but run it for ~8 weeks
Rhodiola Rosea: 1g/day for 8 weeks
DHEA: 200mg/day 8 weeks
Rebound XT: 75mg/75mg/50mg/50mg/50mg
DS Non-Hormonal Anabolic: Isnt currently available, depends on cost too if I run this or not
Cre-Ethyl Thunder: Recommended dose for 8 weeks
ZMA: Recommended dose for 6 weeks

So basically that is about everything I could think of to make post cycle as smooth as possible. I think I have all the bases covered pretty good, lower cortisol, lower estrogen, and boost testosterone. I also have plenty of HCG, and I was thinking the last 2-3 weeks shooting 500IU eod to get the ol nads as full as possible, but my question is would that be too much HCG, endangering desensitizing my leydig cells? I might also get some long jack powder, avena sativa, and maybe maca powder, but I am not for sure if those are worth all the money for that, my current cycle kinda put a dent in my account balance lol, plus all this damn food. So basically what I am wondering is what do you guys think of this stack, what would you add, and is doing the last 3 weeks of the cycle with 500IU of HCG eod too much? I think that may be a bit much for the HCG. Thanks for all your suggestions:)
 

Nate Dawg

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One other thing I forgot to mention, I was considering running clen during my post cycle, not necessarily for fat loss, but prevention of putting on extra pounds while trying to eat alot of calories to maintain strength/size, and I have also heard that it is slightly anti catabolic. Although, I once read it was only proven to be anticatabolic in rats, not in humans, but it seems that the people who have run clen post cycle have really liked it. Opinions?
 

glenihan

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wow that's a pretty serious pct between the nolva and the rebound XT i'm sure you'll recover very well ... btw did you get my email? i'm nearly positive i sent it to the right address .. if i got the addy wrong .. well someone is VERY confused haha
 

Wolfe08

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glenihan...what is your Email...? I tried to PM you but it wont work...
 

Nate Dawg

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Ya I got your email glen, lol, that would be kinda funny if some old lady got it or something. That is alot of stuff, I just hate coming off and I want it to go as smooth as possible.

Wolfe-PM's are disabled unless you are a board supporter.
 

Snachito

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How do you become a board supporter?

On topic, that is a serious PCT.
 

Strateg0s

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Click on the Donate button in the top right corner, which reminds me... going for gold 1:52am EST.
 

Strateg0s

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BTW Nate, that is a mother of a PCT stack, especially given that you were wise enough to use HCG during your cycle. If that stack won't do it, almost nothing will, well short of those $300/month options.
 

Nate Dawg

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Tomorrow I am going to add up the cost of all that stuff, then I will probably decide I want to cut some stuff out lol. What are your opinions on the last 2-3 weeks of the cycle shooting 500IU HCG eod, is that going to hurt my leydig cells?

BTW Strategos, I have always wondered this, is that you in your avatar, if so, you look alot like Vin Diesel.
 

Strateg0s

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I leave it to the expert, namely Swale, on HCG use. 500iu split into two doses each week should be fine, or 1000iu split, if you feel you need more. Taking 3500iu doesn't seem necessary. Maybe it would work fine though, I just don't have the experience to give you a proper answer. I don't suppose that you will damage your leydig cells just doing that for a few weeks, I mean look at some of the absurd doses people were doing before Swale chimed in.

As for the avatar, I look nothing like Vin Diesel. lol - and no, I'm not his biggest fan. That said, I thought XXX was absolutely hilarious in a hyperbole of the most insipid possibilities of film-making sort of way.

As for pricing it all out, that is always a good idea. Rank your ingredients by what costs the most and separately by what does the most for you. Then start making choices, and to keep the better but more expensive stuff that you can't get in any other form, try to find cheaper/generic/powder versions of the other stuff. Then also drop the least useful stuff, regardless of its price.

I am in the process of trying to determine a daily supplement regimen, &c., that's why I bring it up. Using Excel, Froogle, AnabolicMinds and AvantLabs' search buttons, and (un)common sense makes the job go smoothly.
 

Sticks

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This actually looks like my planned future pct. Mine will look like this:
Nolva: 60/40/30/20
Rebount XT: 100/75/50/50
Lean XT: 75/75/75/75
IGF-1 (possibly OT): 40-50 mcg's ED
CET: bottle dosing
CEE: 1-2 grams ED
ZMA: Bottle dosing
Clen/Keto: will only use if I need to increase cals more then expected.

I think that this should work pretty well. I'll be coming of a cut with prop/fina and don't want to go much over maintenance on cals, but w/this stack i think i'll be able to go over w/out any fat gain. I think I may even be able to gain during PCT while maintaining a low BF% w/this.

I'll be looking into DS's non-hormonal as I haven't really heard much about this. Sounds very good for PCT though. I'm also gonna check out trib, and fenugreek as i've read good stuff about both, but what i've got is my base.
 

Nate Dawg

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I thought XXX was absolutely hilarious in a hyperbole of the most insipid possibilities of film-making sort of way.
XXX had some of the dumbest one-liners that I have ever heard. Sorry if I offended you by saying you like like Vin Diesel lol.

Hey DR.D, have you checked this out yet?
 
Alpha Dog

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Nate, question. Why so much Rebound XT? From what I have read, this is a very potent anti-e. However, PCT is a delicate balance of maintaining estrogen for both preserving joint integrity and maintaining muscle mass and decreasing estrogen to positively impact the HTPA loop. However, with regards to the latter, nolvadex (being an estrogen antagonist) is going to compete with the receptor to help offset the negative impact of estrogen. I would agree that running a minimal amount would be prudent, especially considering the addition of the DHEA (which can aramotize). Otherwise, if your goal is to recover as quickly as possible, I wouldn't modify your program. But, if you goal is too maintain gains and recover (albeit at a slightly slower rate); you might want to consider lowering the dosage of any anti-e's.
 
Beelzebub

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hey nate,
sldge addressed a similar topic recently saying that stacking nolva with rebound was pretty pointless. so, if you wanted to be safe, you could have the nolva on hand but don't use it unless necessary.
 
Alpha Dog

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hey nate,
sldge addressed a similar topic recently saying that stacking nolva with rebound was pretty pointless. so, if you wanted to be safe, you could have the nolva on hand but don't use it unless necessary.

Or conversely, what he said ;)

I just don't see the need to take high dosages of both.
 

Nate Dawg

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Bow, so when you said to lower the anti-e's but recover at a slightly slower rate, did you mean I would recover slower with how it is set up now, or slower if I lowered the anti-e's?

Beelzebub- After what you and Bow said, I think I may drop my dosage of Rebound XT to just 25mg/day for the first 4 weeks and see how that works. The reason I have such a heavy pct stack is that I really want to stay above 200lbs this time, my last 3 cycles have gotten me above 200, but every time I drop back to the 196-198lb range, just really messes with my mind and I want to be over 200 damn it!! lol.

Also, what are the opinions of clen being anti-catabolic post cycle?
 
Beelzebub

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i've heard of a few success stories from clen during post cycle. haven't tried it personally though, might give it a whirl on mine starting next week. rebound/lean extreme/ possibly clen. one of the mods, size i think, likes clen during post as well.

i know what you mean about having a hefty PCT. i've got all kinds of **** here ready to go in for support just in case **** goes awry. nolva, clomid, MR's IGF-1, fenugreek, camphibolic.
 
Alpha Dog

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Bow, so when you said to lower the anti-e's but recover at a slightly slower rate, did you mean I would recover slower with how it is set up now, or slower if I lowered the anti-e's
The latter. You would recover at a slightly slower rate because tamoxifen is not 100% efficient at the receptor. Anotherwords, I would speculate that you might recover a little bit slower if you were to lower the anti-e's. However, you would maintain more mass during PCT because estrogen is present. This is one of the reasons I am not a big fan of anti-e's post cycle. While they are effective at restoring a natural hormonal balance, they make it a bitch to work out (because you joints are so damn dry) and retain muscle. Low estrogen levels can also negatively effect natural gh and igf-1 production.
 

Nate Dawg

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That makes complete sense, now I remember doing some research on that earlier, I will definetly lower it then. So do you reccomend dropping the nolva completely and going with rebound xt, or I was also thinking maybe rebound xt at the reccommended dosage and around 20mg nolva for 3-4 weeks.
 
Alpha Dog

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That makes complete sense, now I remember doing some research on that earlier, I will definetly lower it then. So do you reccomend dropping the nolva completely and going with rebound xt, or I was also thinking maybe rebound xt at the reccommended dosage and around 20mg nolva for 3-4 weeks.

Well, here's the tricky part. How do I answer the question and remain loyal to the board sponsors ;)

I agree with beelzebub that both are not required. Either one is going to be effective on its own. That being said, sledge's new compound is an anti-e. Again, for the reasons mentioned above, I am not a fan of anti-e's post cycle. Therefore, I would stick with your original protocol with respect to the nolva dosing and just lower the anti-e dosing (to prevent the aramotization of DHEA).
 

Wolfe08

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I read the clen was anti-catabolic when on a very low calorie diet (Post cycle)...
 

glenihan

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the studies that showed clen to be anti catabolic where done with rats with VERY high doseages ... 1) humans don't have nearly as many beta-2 receptors as rats, so the clen won't bind as well .. 2) we can't handle enough mg of clen to see any of the anti-catabolic benefits

this is theoritical, antecdotal evidence may vary ... take it for what its worth
 
exnihilo

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Honestly I'd say blow some cash and get some r3-igf1. It'll cost a little bit more but it'll work a LOT better, you can get it for as low as $150/vial. 40mcg/day for 25 days would probably be the way to go.

As for the lean xtreme vs nolva, nolvadex is kid tested mother approved (so to speak) whereas lean xtreme is sort of a wild card, if you're really worried about keeping gains go the time tested way. If you want to add some lean xtreme on top of that, it's up to you but I don't really see a need...
 

Nate Dawg

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I would really like to get some of the igf, i still need to add up the cost of this and then see if I cut out all the **** that isnt that necessary see if it would be close to the cost of the igf, because I really want to try that sometime, do some bi spot injections:) On the lean xtreme vs nolva, I think you may have misread it a bit, we were talking about Nolva vs. Rebound XT, Designer Supplements new anti-e. I am doing the lean xtreme for sure to try and prevent a huge spike in cortisol.

BTW exnihilo, do you have any pl meets coming up soon? What state are you in?
 
exnihilo

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I'm in cali, I'm going to a WPO meet in vegas in march. Pretty psyched up, should be fun.
 

Nate Dawg

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Nice, I have one next saturday, first one, I am really ready for it, but kinda nervous.
 

Wolfe08

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r3-igf1...So this can be used during PCT...it's injectable correct...? I know little about HGH. Would it be used with nolva and HCG ?
 

Nate Dawg

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Yes it is injectable, it is insulin like growth factor, kinda like growth hormone, read up on it in the igf/gh forum. You wouldnt need nolva or HCG with it as it doesnt actually alter your test/estrogen. One of the reasons it is good post cycle is that it can help regenerate the testes and make them come back to size faster and put them in good working order.
 

BryanM

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I will give the same advise on the nolva and DS rebound your not gonna need that much but it is still good to have the nolva in there to help your lipid profile from using an AI and it will keep your IGF levels from getting altered in a negative way.

Are you takeing the rhodiola all at once?

I just started taking mine and it has strange effects at that dose almost like a mild mild vicodin feeling.
 

Nate Dawg

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I really dont know how I am going to take the rhodiola, i might split it up 2x a day. So it makes you feel pretty mellowed out or what?
 
exnihilo

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Nice, I have one next saturday, first one, I am really ready for it, but kinda nervous.
Sweet! Are you going to compete in the 220s or try and cut some water for the 191s? Do you have a shirt/suit yet, and if so what kind? I really like titan gear, if you're using an inzer setup right now after this contest I highly advise blowing some cash on a nice TIGHT titan fury or f6 and a centurion suit. Some guys are hitting in the 700s on bench with the F6 and it's a SINGLE PLY shirt so you know it's gotta be good :D I have a centurion that is so tight I can't break parallel with the straps down and 700lbs on my back! That's what I call a suit!

Best of luck dude, let me know how it goes... And if this is your first meet set your openers at something you know you can dunk fairly easily with perfect form so you don't bomb.
 

Nate Dawg

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I am going to compete in the 220 class, I could easily cut to 198, the next class for me, I am going to do an APF meet. But the reason I dont want to cut to 198, is hell I have been busting my balls to get over 200 and stay there, why cut down, even though I could probably get back to where I was with a few days of heavy eating. If I was stronger and thought I had a good chance of placing up there with the rest of the guys I would drop weight, but there are going to be some real freaks there in all the classes so I dunno. As of right now there are 29 lifters I believe, and maybe 20-21 of those are doing the full meet, the rest are doing bench only. Right now there are 7 people in the 220's and 4 of them are doing the full meet, but I dont really know anything about the other guys, so I dont know their lifts.

As for gear, I am going to bench raw, my friend had a inzer double poly that fit me really good and tight, but I didnt know how serious I wanted to get into the gear thing, so I just stuck with raw, that way I could get my raw bench up as much as possible while on cycle. For squat and deadlift, I have a pair of Frantz groove briefs, and that same friend that has the shirt has a frantz double poly squat suit that fits pretty well. I have only squatted in the suit twice, so I dont really know how to get as much out of it as possible. Worked in the briefs for several workouts now. I think the suit is starting to get too broke down, I cant really tell any difference from squatting in my briefs to when I put the suit on so...For bench I know I have 380-385 in me, hoping for 390, I am sure being at the meet and being fired up as hell will make the weight seem alot lighter. I plan on opening at 330, then hitting 360-365, then judging how that felt go for my last attempt. For squats I have around 465, hoping for 475-480, opening at 405, then hitting 460, then going from there. Deadlifts I am not really for sure, my last time I deadlifted I hit 450 after getting done with a max effort squat workout and hitting a 50lb pr, so I dont know what it is around, I quit at 450 because I didnt want to break myself down too bad yet. With deadlift I will probably open at 405, 455, then judge from there for the last attempt....Im not really all that strong, pretty pathetic when my squat isnt even 100lbs over bench. I really wish I could find some halotestin or cheque drops lol.

For eating the day of the meet, what do you recommend exnihilo? I was thinking not a big breakfast necessarily, but get full with some good carbs, then during the meet drink gatorade, water, eat granola bars and bananas to help with cramping, along with creatine. How does that sound? That is the thing that I am most worried about now, is running out of gas out there.
 
exnihilo

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I am going to compete in the 220 class, I could easily cut to 198, the next class for me, I am going to do an APF meet. But the reason I dont want to cut to 198, is hell I have been busting my balls to get over 200 and stay there, why cut down, even though I could probably get back to where I was with a few days of heavy eating. If I was stronger and thought I had a good chance of placing up there with the rest of the guys I would drop weight, but there are going to be some real freaks there in all the classes so I dunno. As of right now there are 29 lifters I believe, and maybe 20-21 of those are doing the full meet, the rest are doing bench only. Right now there are 7 people in the 220's and 4 of them are doing the full meet, but I dont really know anything about the other guys, so I dont know their lifts.

As for gear, I am going to bench raw, my friend had a inzer double poly that fit me really good and tight, but I didnt know how serious I wanted to get into the gear thing, so I just stuck with raw, that way I could get my raw bench up as much as possible while on cycle. For squat and deadlift, I have a pair of Frantz groove briefs, and that same friend that has the shirt has a frantz double poly squat suit that fits pretty well. I have only squatted in the suit twice, so I dont really know how to get as much out of it as possible. Worked in the briefs for several workouts now. I think the suit is starting to get too broke down, I cant really tell any difference from squatting in my briefs to when I put the suit on so...For bench I know I have 380-385 in me, hoping for 390, I am sure being at the meet and being fired up as hell will make the weight seem alot lighter. I plan on opening at 330, then hitting 360-365, then judging how that felt go for my last attempt. For squats I have around 465, hoping for 475-480, opening at 405, then hitting 460, then going from there. Deadlifts I am not really for sure, my last time I deadlifted I hit 450 after getting done with a max effort squat workout and hitting a 50lb pr, so I dont know what it is around, I quit at 450 because I didnt want to break myself down too bad yet. With deadlift I will probably open at 405, 455, then judge from there for the last attempt....Im not really all that strong, pretty pathetic when my squat isnt even 100lbs over bench. I really wish I could find some halotestin or cheque drops lol.

For eating the day of the meet, what do you recommend exnihilo? I was thinking not a big breakfast necessarily, but get full with some good carbs, then during the meet drink gatorade, water, eat granola bars and bananas to help with cramping, along with creatine. How does that sound? That is the thing that I am most worried about now, is running out of gas out there.
The suit is probably too loose, which is why it's not helping you when you put it over the groove briefs. It should be trying to pull your knees in and pull you forward as you lower the weight, if it's not, the suit doesn't fit. After this meet get a fury and a centurion bro, it'll be the best thing you ever did.

I'd say just kind of nibble, don't get too full or you will probably get sick, esp if you are nervous. I'd say have some fairly light food and sip the gatorade with a little protein mixed in throughout the day, whatever food you like that will make you feel better is good too, just nothing that will make you uncomfortable ala beans or milk if you bloat off of it. Just take it easy and focus on finishing the meet this time around man, that's the key. Once you finish this meet you will see what you need to do to succeed in the next meet, and you will be able to jump more heavily on the gear bandwagon which is really my biggest piece of advice.

Best of luck tomorrow!
 

Nate Dawg

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Thanks for the advice exnihilo, it is actually next saturday the 19th, so I have been taking it fairly easy this week in the gym, and next week will probably just hit bis light and maybe some light leg curls and leg ext to get some blood flowing in my legs. If you wouldnt mind, could you send me an email at [email protected] so we could talk some more about the suits and stuff, thanks.
 

Nate Dawg

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BTW, the suit doesnt pull me at all in any way really, my training partner has a double denim Frantz squat suit, and I wore it one day just dicking off seeing how it felt, the legs werent even really tight in it, and I could tell a much bigger difference with the denim even though it didnt fit right, compared to the poly which is tight on me, but just doesnt seem to have any tightness in it.
 

raybravo

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One other thing I forgot to mention, I was considering running clen during my post cycle, not necessarily for fat loss, but prevention of putting on extra pounds while trying to eat alot of calories to maintain strength/size, and I have also heard that it is slightly anti catabolic. Although, I once read it was only proven to be anticatabolic in rats, not in humans, but it seems that the people who have run clen post cycle have really liked it. Opinions?
this is actually a bad idea, when u eat more, circulatory insulin levels are higher and then if ure using clen at this point, assuming clen works in this scenario, even then, clen increases insulin resistance, so this reduction in insulin sensitivity is going to work against u and u may even end up getting more chubby? dont u think?

now coming to the supplementation part, what i always suggest to people is this:

vit c : 3 gms per day.
creatine- 5-10 gms per day.
phosphatidylserine- 800 mg per day , maybe when u get up or before bed.

zma is a very good addition, and i think Cre-Ethyl Thunder is some form of creatine? I dont know about these :
DS Non-Hormonal Anabolic
Rebound XT- is this an anti-e? or anti aromatase?
Lean Xtreme
what do u have them there for? can u explain the logic to me? prolly new products on the market, do they have any effect on reducing body's cortisol levels?
btw, reading other replies on these products, seems like u have a little too much anti e's in there, generally, 40 mg nolva for 2 weeks and 20 mg nolva for 2 more weeks is enough, if u want to use some sort of another anti e as well, go with something which will LOWER estrogen levels to a small extent , ie anti aromatase, not anti e.. this may help u cos u got dhea in there as well.

again, if ure going to use igf-1, split it into 2 shots, one as soon as u wake up and another post workout, better that way, especially if ure going to use over 40 mcg ..
And, using clen with igf-1 may work again to be contradictory? true?
 

Nate Dawg

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I dont really understand what you are saying about the clen, but thats ok, I doubt I will take it anyways. The non hormonal anabolic is one of Designer supplements new supplements, it binds up SHBG, the rebound xt is an anti aromatase, and the lean xtreme controls cortisol and is actually better than phosphatidylserine. I will probably run the nolva at the dose listed, and run a very low dose of the Rebound XT.
 

raybravo

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actually, increasing free testosterone may hinder recovery, lower free test levels sends a signal to the body to produce more testosterone to cater to the needs of the body's testosterone levels... so leave out that product. the other 2 seem fine, and i'm intruiged by this product which is supposed to be better than PS :) i'll check it out.
 

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