First Cycle, Test E: Looking for feedback

[Druboutin]

Age: 28
Height: 5'8.5"
Weight: 155
BF%: ~10

Plan is to run 500 mg Test E pinned twice weekly (250/250) for 12 weeks
HCG 500 IU pinned twice weekly (250/250) weeks 2-13
Arimidex .25mg EOD weeks 1-12
Clomid 50/50/25/25 weeks 14-17

I plan on starting with calories 500 above maintenance and adjusting based on fat gain. Protein 2g/lb.

Upper/Lower split. Training on Mon/Tue Thur/Fri and possibly adding in some specialized work based on recovery.

Heading into PCT I plan on reducing training volume, but attempting to maintain intensity. I'm also going to continue to eat above maintenance, but will likely scale it back based on fat ratio.

Any feedback would be much appreciated. From most of the research I've done, this seems to be an ok protocol for a noob.

 

[ndabich]

are you pinning every other week?

 

[Druboutin]

are you pinning every other week?

My bad, I meant twice a week. Wrote this too quickly.

 

[ndabich]

lol,i thought so.everything looks good,i think this will be good to help boost you up.safe and textbook.good luck bro!

 

[Druboutin]

lol,i thought so.everything looks good,i think this will be good to help boost you up.safe and textbook.good luck bro!

Thanks bro, I'm just finishing a cut, and I know I have a ton of room to add to my frame. I've read a lot of people joking about "only 1 cycle" and how that's never the case, but it's my intention at this point.

If I could net a 15lb increase I'd be extremely content. That might be aiming high, but from what I've read, the farther you are from your genetic potential, the more you can add and retain. I've used some online calculators posted on BodyRecomposition that put me between 175-180 at 10% BF if I was "maxed out" based on my measurements.

By the time I end this cut and start to transition ill prob be about 150. So the target is to end up at 165. I think that'd be a great base moving forward.

 

[ndabich]

I think its a good first cycle,no need to get complicated yet.Its also a good first cycle to run in my opinion.my first cycle was test e cycle,i ran 650mg weekly,ate right,trained right and gained 18lbs,15lbs muscle and held on to 10 of it.would have been more but i injured my hand shortly after my cycle.im pretty confident you will hit your goal.keep focused,train right,eat right,sleep right and ur on ur way.

 

[Druboutin]

Do you think there's any reason I should bump up to 600 mg per week?

 

[supermanjow]

Naw man. You won't notice much a difference over 500. 750 will be mildly noticeable and then 1000 will be a LOT more noticeable. 500 is a VERY effective dose though and there really isn't a reason to go higher unless you're doing a contest cut and really getting low in calories. I don't get that high until the last eight weeks and I generally cut for 16.

 

[hewhoisripped]

Looks good. Get bloods to have a baseline on AI dosage, cholesterol.

 

[Druboutin]

Naw man. You won't notice much a difference over 500. 750 will be mildly noticeable and then 1000 will be a LOT more noticeable. 500 is a VERY effective dose though and there really isn't a reason to go higher unless you're doing a contest cut and really getting low in calories. I don't get that high until the last eight weeks and I generally cut for 16.

Cool, thanks for the advice. I'm not competing, just trying to build a good foundation now that I've finally got a good starting point. This is the first time in my life I've ever had abs. I've lifted for years, but never kept my diet in check. Finally put a plan together last winter and now I'm as motivated as ever after seeing the results.

 

[Druboutin]

Looks good. Get bloods to have a baseline on AI dosage, cholesterol.

Yup, headed in Sept. 5. Thanks for tip

 

[ndabich]

i think thats a good beginners dose.Dudes right,no need to go higher.Plus,i think its always good to see how your body reacts to what ur putting in.it gives you a good base to work from.everyones body is different.

 

[Druboutin]

i think thats a good beginners dose.Dudes right,no need to go higher.Plus,i think its always good to see how your body reacts to what ur putting in.it gives you a good base to work from.everyones body is different.

Great, I'll just go ahead and run it as is.

 

[hewhoisripped]

I meant bloods on cycle. 500 test is a common base. The idea would be to figure out which supports you need for that for future cycles. But also get pre bloods.

 

[StanleyG]

run the ai through week 13 with the hcg.
Add Nolva to that pct at 40/20/20/20

 

[Druboutin]

run the ai through week 13 with the hcg.
Add Nolva to that pct at 40/20/20/20

Is nolva necessary if I haven't had any issues with estrogen related sides? I'm sure I won't have any with the Arimidex being run, but just wondering why it's needed in addition to clomid.

A lot of anecdotal stuff that I've read has said either/or is fine, but both you don't need to be run. I already have Clomid from my doctor which they gave me for Low T (which I think was brought on from this cut because I never had T issue prior to the dieting)

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely extend the arimidex to coincide with the HCG

 

[Goliath1]

For 12 weeks IMO hcg isn't even neccasary.

Clomid will probably work just fine alone, but I'd use Nolva & Clomid if I wasn't using HCG.

 

[Druboutin]

For 12 weeks IMO hcg isn't even neccasary.

Clomid will probably work just fine alone, but I'd use Nolva & Clomid if I wasn't using HCG.

I've seen it said that HCG isn't necessary for a cycle comprised of only testosterone and for this duration, but it's readily available, relatively cheap, and from what I gather it can aid in making the PCT transition smoother, resulting in better retained gains. If it's going to help me with that, and provide piece of mind, I think it's worth including.

Thanks for the input.

 

[Goliath1]

Agreed ^^ If you have it, you might as we'll use it.

Good luck with the run..

 

[hewhoisripped]

I'd just run HCG the last four weeks maybe. And nolva/clomid IS needed for PCT but IS NOT needed while on cycle to prevent gyno (especially if there's no history of it).

 

[StanleyG]

Is nolva necessary if I haven't had any issues with estrogen related sides? I'm sure I won't have any with the Arimidex being run, but just wondering why it's needed in addition to clomid.

A lot of anecdotal stuff that I've read has said either/or is fine, but both you don't need to be run. I already have Clomid from my doctor which they gave me for Low T (which I think was brought on from this cut because I never had T issue prior to the dieting)

Thanks for the input. I'll definitely extend the arimidex to coincide with the HCG

Dr Michale Scally advocates the use of both and he has peer reviewd studies ans well as hundreds and hundreds of individual case studies to support his position.
Also anecdotally when I first enter into cycling pct was relatively new and we used clomid only. Later the combo was advocated. After cycling for several years and using just clomid I began to use both. My off cycle baseline T levels increased (granted only slightly but they did) and my recovery was smoother.
I consider both the most prudent.
While many argue they do the same thing, they do not as far as specific effect. They work the same & they both posses estrogen agonist and antagonist activity but in varied degrees of both. It is believed the combination of both, especially with the combined agonist / antagonist activity of both lead to a speedier, more effective and efficient recovery.

As far as hcg you can ride around on a flat tire for weeks then try to fix it or you can prevent the flat the entire time. Which do you think is most prudent? Run it just like you said at a low dose. Might you recover fine just running it at the end- yes you might, but why would you take a chance with hpta recovery? Maximize the possibility of a full recovery. It is the safest most prudent and arguably the most important part of this entire thing.

 

[Druboutin]

Dr Michale Scally advocates the use of both and he has peer reviewd studies ans well as hundreds and hundreds of individual case studies to support his position.
Also anecdotally when I first enter into cycling pct was relatively new and we used clomid only. Later the combo was advocated. After cycling for several years and using just clomid I began to use both. My off cycle baseline T levels increased (granted only slightly but they did) and my recovery was smoother.
I consider both the most prudent.
While many argue they do the same thing, they do not as far as specific effect. They work the same & they both posses estrogen agonist and antagonist activity but in varied degrees of both. It is believed the combination of both, especially with the combined agonist / antagonist activity of both lead to a speedier, more effective and efficient recovery.

As far as hcg you can ride around on a flat tire for weeks then try to fix it or you can prevent the flat the entire time. Which do you think is most prudent? Run it just like you said at a low dose. Might you recover fine just running it at the end- yes you might, but why would you take a chance with hpta recovery? Maximize the possibility of a full recovery. It is the safest most prudent and arguably the most important part of this entire thing.

Great info. I just checked out Dr. Scally's page. Thanks for your input.

 

[StanleyG]

Great info. I just checked out Dr. Scally's page. Thanks for your input.

No problem. Best of luck man.

 

[Firby911]

I had almost identical starting stats to you(height,weight, and bf),ran my first ever cycle consisting of test e and then tren a on the back end. If you are interested in what to expect i can post up some progress pictures. Started at 150lbs 11-12% and ended somewhere between 170-175ish.12-13%

 

[Goliath1]

I had almost identical starting stats to you(height,weight, and bf),ran my first ever cycle consisting of test e and then tren a on the back end. If you are interested in what to expect i can post up some progress pictures. Started at 150lbs 11-12% and ended somewhere between 170-175ish.12-13%

What did you run the Tren at?

 

[Druboutin]

I had almost identical starting stats to you(height,weight, and bf),ran my first ever cycle consisting of test e and then tren a on the back end. If you are interested in what to expect i can post up some progress pictures. Started at 150lbs 11-12% and ended somewhere between 170-175ish.12-13%

That's awesome. Had a buddy do calipers on me last night and I was 9.4% at 153. I'm going to measure one final time in about 10 days, right before first pin. Of course I wont have Tren on the back end, but if I could land at 11-13%bf and between 165-170 when it's all said and done I'd be extremely pleased.

 

[Firby911]

What did you run the Tren at?

Test e 1-6 500mg ew
Test e 6-12 250mg ew
Tren A 6-10 50mg ed
Tren A 10-12 75mg ed

I would make huge changes to this cycle if i could do it again but you live and learn. Was planning on just b&c and easing into a hard cut which is why i lowered the test and introduced tren but i had to come off due to personal reasons unfortunately. Will throw some pictures up later. I would highly recommend front loading the test for your cycle.

 

[Goliath1]

Test e 1-6 500mg ew Test e 6-12 250mg ew Tren A 6-10 50mg ed Tren A 10-12 75mg ed I would make huge changes to this cycle if i could do it again but you live and learn. Was planning on just b&c and easing into a hard cut which is why i lowered the test and introduced tren but i had to come off due to personal reasons unfortunately. Will throw some pictures up later. I would highly recommend front loading the test for your cycle.

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/254529-goliath-gets-massive.html

Check out my log bro.. Was just curious on your dosing cause I have a similar setup starting now..
Test & Dmz then Test & Tren..

 

[Firby911]

My diet was pretty **** on this cycle after just coming off a 12 week cut+test i ate everything in site haha

(remove the spaces)
Before 150lbs
h ttp://i.imgur.co m/u02S5kT.jpg

After
170-175ish
h ttp://i.imgur.co m/h0DLt0c.jpg

 

[Druboutin]

Update and Question:

I'm in the middle of my second week. Pinned 250mg last Monday/Thursday. Pinned 250mg again this Monday and started .25mg Adex EOD. Pinned 250 iu HCG Tuesday. Took .25mg Adex today (wednesday)

My question is this -- my nipples are a bit sensitive on the tips and look a little puffy. They're not sore, tender or itchy, but the heightened sensitivity is there.

Should I up my dose up Adex? or should I let it ride a bit longer and see if my body adjusts. Again, I've only taken .5mg total at this point. Friday would have me at .75 on my current schedule.

Also, I'm not experiencing morning wood or increased libido. I'm unsure if that, along with my nipples, is an indication that E2 is currently too high.

Any suggestions or input would be much appreciated.

Thanks guys.

 

[StanleyG]

Update and Question:

I'm in the middle of my second week. Pinned 250mg last Monday/Thursday. Pinned 250mg again this Monday and started .25mg Adex EOD. Pinned 250 iu HCG Tuesday. Took .25mg Adex today (wednesday)

My question is this -- my nipples are a bit sensitive on the tips and look a little puffy. They're not sore, tender or itchy, but the heightened sensitivity is there.

Should I up my dose up Adex? or should I let it ride a bit longer and see if my body adjusts. Again, I've only taken .5mg total at this point. Friday would have me at .75 on my current schedule.

Also, I'm not experiencing morning wood or increased libido. I'm unsure if that, along with my nipples, is an indication that E2 is currently too high.

Any suggestions or input would be much appreciated.

Thanks guys.

You are in a state of hormonal flux. Nipple sensitivity is a norm as a result of this. I in no way would make any adjustments until things are more stable.

 

[Druboutin]

You are in a state of hormonal flux. Nipple sensitivity is a norm as a result of this. I in no way would make any adjustments until things are more stable.

Ok great. I figured I should give it 7-10 days prior to making any adjustments, but since this is my first go around, I wasn't sure.

I appreciate the input.

 

[Druboutin]

**Updating my status and looking for some additional suggestions**

This morning was my 7th pin/beginning of week 4. My weight has increased from 154 (fresh off my cut) up to 170. I assume this has a lot to do with water retention and shift to increased carb intake for bulking. However, I think it's probably too much water retention. I'm eating ~2700 cals per day broken up 270 p/270 c/60 f.

After experiencing no increase in libido, no morning wood, and some heightened sensitivity in my nipples early on, I bumped my adex dose from .25 EOD to .5 E3D. The sensitivity in my nipples is now almost completely gone (every now and then I THINK I feel something, could be in my head) but I've still yet to see a change in libido or morning wood.

This morning was only my third dose at .5 E3D, so I'm going to give it a few more to see if anything changes. If another 6-10 days go by and I'm still not getting morning wood or feeling increase libido, should I bump my adex to .5 EOD? Or is it not something I should be concerned with? It seems like everyone's anecdotal experience from Test cycles include libido skyrocketing through the roof, so I'm wondering why mine isn't.

Outside of these concerns, strength is finally on the way up. Muscles feel more dense/harder and I'm beginning to notice some size increase as well as increased vascularity.

Thanks in advance for any responses you may have, I really want to get this adex dosing where it needs to be.

Edit: I should add that my nipples got a little puffy and remain that way, but there is no pain, tenderness/soreness, or itchiness.

 

[Blergs]

Awesome to hear man!! keep pumping!! : D

 

[Druboutin]

As I wrap up my final week, I wanted to give and update and thank those who provided feedback.

Started at 154 and ~9.5%BF, Currently at 186 and not sure on bodyfat, but I can still flex out abs, which is pretty amazing considering a 30 lb swing in weight.

Strength has increased across the board. Bench is up over 40 lbs, Squat is up over 65 lbs..

Mid way through the cycle I bumped the dose from 500mg/week to 600mg/week due to my buddy breaking one of his vials, buying more, and having extra that he didn't want to use. I also ended up with an extra pin, so I ran the cycle 12.5 weeks instead of 12.

Had bloodwork done and everything was fine, except for slightly elevated WBC count, which is odd because I've mostly read about RBC count increasing, but hadn't seen much on WBC, although a google search has lead me to find others with the same experience. Other than that, bacne is my only issue. Everything else is great.

http://my.bodybuilding.com/photos/view/type/progress

Here's a link to some progress photos where you can see where I was in the middle of August to where I am now. I'm definitely pleased with the results, but realize training and diet through PCT and beyond need to be as on point, if not better, than they were on cycle to fully maximize my results.

I plan on taking roughly 6 months off, trimming the BF back down to single digits, and revisiting a potential round 2 at that time.

Again, thanks for the feedback and input from those who responded. Although I had done a ton of research and felt good about my plan prior to posting, it's always nice to have some experienced people give you feedback.

 

[KillJitsu]

Killer work man! Let us know how PCT goes.

Your progress pics don't link properly though.

 

[Druboutin]

http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/Druboutin/

For some reason I can't link directly to the pics, but through this link you can click the progress photos and compare between Aug and Nov.