New to Thermogenics
- 02-22-2005, 11:09 AM
New to Thermogenics
Good day all.
I am new to thermogenics in general, and information regading dosing is rather homogenous (i.e. it seems written for the 'typical' bodybuilder, at a specific point in training).
My specific query is in regard to my clenbuterol research.
I plan on dosing a 4+ year trained animal, at approximately 17% bodyfat, following a bulking phase.
I keep reading and find nothing more than 'start with 20 ug, then taper up'
Since my animal has no prior experince with clenbuterol, should he really be taking 100-160 ug by the sixth day?
Also, his diet is strict as is: P/C mornings, P/F evenings. At least 1.5 g /pound bodyweight. No boxed foods, only fresh or frozen.
Training is and will be 5 day split, with 20-30 minutes of pre-breakfast cardio ED.
Should an AAS be employed to retain LBM, or will precise dosing, caloric intake, and training regimine be suffcieint to retain, say 90% of LBM during a 16-day trial?
Also, my animal has slightly high BP on average, which is why specific information is being solicited.
Any help with 'pointing' in the right direction will be appreciated.
Also, I have used the search function, but I would like specific responses to my research.
Thank you all.
- 02-22-2005, 11:18 AM
is this animal training for a body building competition? Lemme guess, its a horse right? NO animal does a 5 day split with cardio, give it rest, your not even in the right forum
- 02-22-2005, 11:44 AM
Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
Regarding a five-day split with cardio, yes, my animal does and had done a five day split for around a year with no obvious signs of ovetraining and 1/5 weeks as a restorative week (i.e. lower intensity). Also, the animal is not currently doing cardio 5 days a week, and when he does, it will be at 65-75% of his ACTUAL maximum heartrate. Maybe yours cannot handle it, but mine assuredly can.
Bump for any intelligent, constructive advice.
02-22-2005, 12:21 PM
I would post your questions on the aas. forum. Though clen is not aas, they will have the most experience with it. Dude, dont be gay, everyone knows its you taking the clen. If your too afriad to admitt it, you shouldnt be taking it.
02-22-2005, 12:25 PM
Thanks, and i will see if a MOD will move my post. And if by being "gay" you mean childish or undereducated, you are lumping me into the wrong group.Originally Posted by UNDERTAKER
The confidentiality of my research is important to me, so again, your juvenile comments are not necessary.
Bump (once again) for intelligent advice.
02-22-2005, 12:48 PM
02-22-2005, 01:47 PM
UNDERTAKER - don't be a jackass. Some people want to refer to it that way; fine. I don't, but it makes sense for them to do so.
ChemicalD: yes, start at 20mcg and work up, I would't go much higher than 200mcg, although some do. You should be able to keep your mass gains no problem
02-22-2005, 02:05 PM
Thank you sir. Then basically I am dosing on a personal level, i.e. to the tolerance of my research subject. I am glas that is cleared up.Originally Posted by jweave23
I appreciate your professionalism.
02-22-2005, 02:11 PM
yeah its all about tolerance levels specific to the subject, some can go up to 200mcg no problem .. others shake like a seizure victim at 100mcg just gradually move up and you won't run into any problems ... happy testing
02-22-2005, 02:18 PM
So, in regards to my other concern, is it plausible to think that my subject can retain at least 90% of LBM while on a 16-18 day cycle of clenbuterol? AAS are available, but I would rather them be saved for an individual project.Originally Posted by glenihan
I get thrown off when people say "diet must be in check". Normally, I wouldn't think twice about my subjects diet, but time is of the essence and time cannot be wasted tooling around with diet plans. In a nutshell, what are some important aspects of diet that must be regulated for maximum benefits?
Edit: aspects of diet including supplementation (taurine and potassium come to mind???)
Side Note: I know my presentation style is dryer than Barbara Walter's camel toe, but I feel more comfortable conversing this way. Email is another arena with different rules. Thank you for not being too harsh.
02-22-2005, 02:25 PM
its hard to say if 90% of lbm can be retained because there are SO many variables ... a 40/40/20 split of protein/carbs/efa's is a good framework ... don't cut cals too short ... for the most part though if you are over 10%bf you don't have to worry TOO much about losing a lot of muscle ... AAS could certainly be used BUT based on a question i saw you asked in the ph forum about when to start PCT i would do a lot more research before using AAS ... on top of that you should be able to attain your goals without using AAS
02-22-2005, 02:34 PM
Absolutely, I am just learning about PCT. My question is more hypothetical, trying to gauge the realistic amount af LBM that can be retained. Don't get me wrong, training is there, diet is there, and knowledge is there. I'm just no expert. I want experienced advice (like your, and others) to confim what I already know or provoke thought in areas I may have overlooked. Also, aking seemingly obviously or 'newbie' questions (such as mine in regards to Nolva) may not exactly be derviced from my work, rather, from lurking around the net.Originally Posted by glenihan
It seems I have found a true gem with AM, and I look forward to learning a whole lot!
Thank you for your input glenihan.
02-22-2005, 03:07 PM
sorry some people above were being jack-asses. to answer your question, i will give an example of what i use clenbuterol for. i start off at 60mcg/day dosed at once in the morning. i do this for 2 days, and than bump up to 80 for 2 days, and than on to 100 and stay there for the duration of the cycle except for the last 4 days where i dose down to 80, and than 60mcg with 2 days left. i have done this 4-5 times, and i get effective results. as a general rule of thumb, if you aren't shaking you aren't taking enough!
as far as diet goes, make sure you get adequate protien (1gm/lb+) and limit your fat and carbs to sensible choices. The supplementation of taurine and potassium has been debated here. i personally do not use supplemental potassium during a clen cycle. however i do increase natural foods containing potassium to prevent cramping. also, some people take ketotofin (sp?) to help up-regulate the receptors that clen down-regulates. in doing so, they theoretically can stay on for a longer period of time than the standard 2 weeks. the only place i know that sells it is http://www.ctdresearch.net/. good luck.
02-23-2005, 01:07 AM
not to hijack the thread but in reference to clen sides having very high variability from user to user, all i have to say is that either my clen from IBE was grossly underdosed or i'm a clen freak-of-nature. i'm currently using 300mcg a day split up equally AM and PM, and i can honestly say that 25mg of ephedrine has been harsher on me. I shake a little more, i sweat a little more, mild cramps, but thats it. by the way, i weigh 186lbs and IBE is the only clen i've ever tried so i have no other reference point. I wanna try some superclen though....
02-24-2005, 01:11 AM
02-24-2005, 10:43 AM
damn thats what i thought. fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu uuuuuuuuuuuuuck....Originally Posted by chasec
02-24-2005, 10:50 AM
Our new board sponsor, IBE, stocks ketotifen.
Omar, try posting in the IBE forum about your clen questions.
02-24-2005, 04:41 PM
do you think i should ask IBE to reimburse me for my purchase, or at least send me an additional order of clen?Originally Posted by BodyWizard
02-24-2005, 05:37 PM
i'd definetly discuss it with him. i've never heard of that level of resistance to clenbuterol. most people feel like a leaf in the wind when they break 100-150mcg/day
02-25-2005, 01:51 AM
when I first started taking clen I noticed 80mcg, now I can pretty much jump directly to 200. Doesn't do much for me. I hate the ****, makes me feel awful, for a couple of hours after I dose I feel like I want to die, then I don't notice anything for the rest of the day (except that I'm very irritable).
02-25-2005, 07:44 AM
I really appreciate all the feedback. The posts have provided me with a full spectrum of what to expect.
I will keep the forum updated as now I have three subjects in my research, possibly four.
Thanks to all.
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