Estrogen control for those extremely prone to estrogen sides
- 02-20-2005, 10:39 PM
Estrogen control for those extremely prone to estrogen sides
I'm one week into my first cycle using an injectible compound. The cycle as I have it planned is 10 weeks of test enanthate at 500mg/week in two divided doses, along with four weeks of dbol at 30mg/day. If my superdrol order makes it through (still waiting from the second sale that was held), I'll likely finish off the cycle with four weeks of superdrol at a yet to be determined dosing level.
Estrogen control for the cycle was initially planned to be 0.5mg liquid arimidex EOD, and 20mg/day of liquid nolvadex daily, at least for the duration of the dbol usage, as I know myself to be gyno prone as I have pre-existing lumps. However, this has not turned out to be enough, as after four or so days my gyno started acting up, in the form of discomfort/tenderness. I've been on 80mg nolva divided into two daily doses since, and it has since died down.
I could use advice in how to proceed from here. I would like to continue with the dbol, if anything to use the rest of it up. I have plenty of liquid arimidex on hand, as well as nolva, and if the need arises liquid femara as well. Bloat has been a non-issue thusfar though, so I don't envision myself using the femara. I will likely bump up the nolva dosage from 20 to 30 or perhaps even 40mg/day for the duration of the dbol, but am wondering whether I should also increase the amount of liquid arimidex at the same time. I don't want to increase the ai usage to a point where it'll cut into gains excessively, but definitely don't need to grow any more tissue under my left areola than is already formed.
I do have one other quick question/request, regarding ventrogluteal injections, more specifically how to find the area in question. I've done my first few injections in the quads with no problems other than 3 or 4 days of post-injection stiffness/pain, but need to move onto another site starting next week. I've considered delts as a site but that's somewhat out of the question as I inject monday/thursday, and workout chest tuesday and shoulders friday. I suspect the post-injection soreness in the delts would put a serious cramp in my upperbody workouts. I've found some info on ventrogluteal shots, but have yet to find a decent picture of the area in question. The guides I've come across all show another person finding the injection site on the person being injected, with their hand being placed in a position that is more or less impossible to place on yourself. Anyone have any tips/hints on locating the proper area for ventrogluteal injections?
- 02-20-2005, 11:00 PM
I would drop the dbol to be safe.
For a glute injection, think of a line draw vertically down the center of one butt cheek and a line drawn horizontally across the center of the same butt cheek. Inject into the upper and outer quadrant. There is also a link to proper injections in the sticky section. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13306
02-21-2005, 12:35 AM
I've come across a ton of information on glute shots, but am leaning more towards ventrogluteal shots as these sound like they'd be easier to do than regular glute shots. I just need to find out for certain the injection area. I have a pretty good idea I know where to inject, but would like to be certain before attempting to do so.
02-21-2005, 01:12 AM
That link has info about the ventrogluteal injections. It is not a common injection site for most aas users
02-21-2005, 07:05 AM
People say all the time that estrogen is so bad to cut off completley during a cycle and it contribute so greatly to gains blah blah blah
I have pre existing lumps as well and NEVER cycle without letro and nolva ever again.
I run my letro at 1.25mg ED and nolva at 40mg ed and it takes care of any breast tissue growth completley.
This is enough to pretty much completley cut off estrogen but I have yet to notice any efffected gains from it at all. Point is Estro does help a very minute amount during a cycle but you should not worry about that if you have lumps.
my suggestion is bump up the L DEX to .75 or even 1mg ed if needed(play around with it) at least the duration of the DBOL and I notice when i take all of my nolva during the morning dose I sometimes feel slight growth towards the evening but taking 20mg morning and 20mg evening clears that problem right up.
02-21-2005, 11:04 AM
Thanks for the link Size, I had already seen it before but it still should provide useful information. What I've decided to try in order to use the technique described for self-locating the ventrogluteal region is to cut out a cardboard tracing of my hand and place that on my hip. That should actually work as opposed to trying to contort my wrist in directions that it simply was not meant to move in.
BryanM, has your estrogen control protocol led to any negative sides that come along with completely removing estrogen? I'm thinking stuff like lowered libido and sore joints mainly. I too have noticed the same thing when taking all the nolva at once in the morning, even at the 80mg level, that towards the evening the affected area was growing sore again, but divided doses have kept things well under control. I've bumped the liquidex to 0.5mg ed as opposed to eod for the time being, and will increase from there if needed.
02-22-2005, 05:49 AM
yeah mainly the lowered libido but A high dose of test still kept me going i just dont wanna **** everything in sight.
I take msm and glucosimine and that helps with the joints.
I think you should see a difference with the split up nolva dosing and bumping the adex to ed.
Letro is just so much stronger then adex so im sure youll be fine with the libido issues while taking ed.
02-22-2005, 10:10 AM
btw, using nolva significantly reduces what u get out of your dbol, an anti aromatase wont affect dbol though... since a lot of dbol's gains are estrogen mediated, there is no point in going 2 steps forward and 1 step back...
02-22-2005, 06:55 PM
I thought that it was generally the other way around, where the ai's were more likely to reduce estrogen mediated gains, as nolva was tissue specific. Even though I am reducing the gains of the dbol, I have no other way to get rid of it other than tossing it out, or by simply using it, so one step forward in this case is better than nothing.
02-22-2005, 07:08 PM
Bump on the ventroglute help. I've been looking for a site that shows an actual person getting a shot in the ventroglute. If anybody could help out w/this it would be great. I've also read all the guides that show the location of the ventroglute but i'm still not sure of the exact place to inject.
02-22-2005, 07:32 PM
I had once ran a google search that turned up an excellent site for injections, that was complete with pictures, but didn't think to write it down, and couldn't bookmark or anything of that sort as it was on a work computer that I was searching. Ended up that I can't find that site again, just typical.
I do have a picture I found on another forum that outlines the area in question. I'm not certain that this is the proper injection site, but it seems like it very well may be. I'm not exactly thrilled to post a picture of a male ass, let alone look at it, but this is the only picture indication that I could find of the ventroglute injection site.
02-22-2005, 07:35 PM
Btw I injected into that site last night, and today feel almost no post injection pain in the area. The quad injection I did last Thursday is still sore, so the ventroglute very well may be my injection point of choice. It was a little difficult to hold steady/reach, but that was more likely due to the massive lower back pump I was still dealing with after rack deads performed during my workout.
02-22-2005, 10:01 PM
Thanks a lot that pic helps a lot. I would assume a 1.5" pin would be best?Originally Posted by max silver
02-22-2005, 11:02 PM
Bump for input from more experienced pinners than myself needed here, but I suspect you're right on the 1.5" pin. I used a 1" pin as that's an area on myself that doesn't hold alot of fat, so I figured 1" would be sufficient.
02-22-2005, 11:31 PM
that is the right spot for ventrogluteal injection and if you lie on your back and bend knee slightly throwing leg across body it is easily accessible. it can hold 3cc and to me it leaves almost no post-injection soreness and gives you another spot to rotate not to mention the dorsal gluteOriginally Posted by max silver
02-22-2005, 11:35 PM
for ventral-glute use 1.5 as its always better to get deep into muscle tissue-sometimes not going deep enough can yield post-inj sorenessOriginally Posted by max silver
02-23-2005, 05:56 PM
if you knew you were gyno prone why did you go with dbol instead of, say, anadrol? and i agree to bump dex to ED.
02-23-2005, 06:51 PM
I had bought the dbol long ago, and had it waiting for my first injectible cycle. Needless to say, I won't be purchasing anymore for future use. I've bumped the ldex to 0.5mg ed, and that seems to be doing the trick so far. I'll likely try lowering my nolvadex dose to 30mg/day from 40 to see it that's a sufficient amount or not.
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