- 02-06-2005, 09:29 PM
To begin, my stats: 5'5 205 (175 contest), training for about 12 years, good amount of PH experience. About 21 weeks out right now.
Just hoping to get some input on a precontest cycle.
I am thinking about running 1-test/4-AD transdermal, as this has given me the best gains overall in the past.
I'm probably going to drop the 4-AD and add in either M5AA/Superdrol or MDHT/Superdrol during the last few weeks to tighten up. Any suggestions as to whether I should run the M5AA or the MDHT? And at what dose? Just FYI - I'm leaning towards the MDHT.
I'm also playing around with the idea of kicking off the cycle with either Superdrol or M1T. I am kind of wary about using the M1T b/c of the sides, but I have some and I don't really know what else to do with it.
Another thing is, I was planning on trying to convert the 4-AD into test (and doing a test dermal). Patrick Arnold and Dazed were supposed to release a book that taught how to convert PH into AAS with some very simple chemistry. Now, I'm not sure if the books is going to be released...plus from what I understand 4-AD has some intrinsic anabolic activity on it's own. I've even been told that a test dermal really wouldn't be that much better than a 4-AD dermal...and given the fact that the conversion would yield about 80% test....I'm not sure if I want to convert it or not. Any suggestions on this would be appreciated as well.
- 02-06-2005, 09:39 PM
- Join Date
- May 2003
- Back down South for the minute
- Rep Power
Without knowing the formula for the 4-AD conversion, I'd say why fix it if it isn't broke. I am using superdrol right now and loving it. It is yielding great, lean gains. Imagine if m5aa or mdht could make you huge in small doses, it's about like that. Or stick out M1t for 10-14 days and the transdermal will be kicked in by then. With either the SD or M1t you will explode, I personally like m5aa myself, haven't tried mdht but imagine I'd get along just fine with it, bald is sexy.
I like to start with M1t or SD, then finish with the cutter personally. I feel like it helps solidify my gains and lets a little recoup happen after M1T. Good Luck!My The 1 LOG: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/steroids/254164-my-one-log.html
- 02-06-2005, 09:59 PM
well I'm not a fan of M1T. I don't think its worth the risks but thats just my choice. I would go with M5AA if your only running it the last few weeks, from what I've read MDHT take a little longer work, I have yet to use it though
02-07-2005, 07:10 AM
Superdrol kicks M1T's ass IMO. I had much better strength gains and lean mass gains without sides when using SD. I stacked it with 1-T/4AD trans and the last five days, I ran M5AA and dropped the 1-T/4AD. Strength really took off during this period (after I was thinking that I should be plateauing anytime due to breaking all PR's).
Pre-contest, either SD/M5AA or SD/MDHT would be great. Personally, I'm going to try the SD/MDHT this Summer to tighten up....only because I haven't used MDHT before and am curious as to how I will react to it.
What contest are you prepping for?
02-07-2005, 11:37 AM
maybe the NPC Greater Gulf States as well...sure since I'll be using dermals and the pro tan and dermals aren't a good combo, and I want to run the dermals through the Louisiana.
02-07-2005, 12:03 PM
Could go with something like:
weeks 1-8 4-ad trans
weeks 1-3 SDrol
weeks 5-8 MDHT or 1-test
Whether or not you would run 1-test the entire time is up to you, I would not. I'm a fan of only 2 compunds at a time, but that's my choice.
What exactly are you trying to accomplish with this? Adding some mass, then lean out afterwards, or just long cutting cycle to get ready for the contest?
02-07-2005, 12:12 PM
I think using the SD the last few weeks is a goog Idea. It's nice and dry and the vascularity and volumising properties are unmatched. If you were gonnea stack another methyl with it, I would go with MDHT. I think Old Fart ran that combo and loved it.
02-07-2005, 12:22 PM
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- Home of The Arnold Classic
- Rep Power
wouldn't that cycle be too dry though?
02-07-2005, 12:52 PM
I'm just aiming to do a long cutting cycle. I'm already 17 pounds heavier than I was before I started dieting last year, so I have added all the mass I want already.
thanks for the input everyone.
02-07-2005, 05:52 PM
i'm in the same boat. competing at the end of april and looking for the perfect stack. last fall i did 2 weeks of mit and then 4 weeks of m5aa/mohn. i wasn't at all pleased with it.
the year i'm considering trans 1-test/1,4 ad phasing in to superdrol. might consider 4ad but the water retention scares me. maybe a real small dose.
i'm testing sd right now at 10mg for 2 weeks just to see how my body reacts to it. so far i'm up 4 lbs in 5 days...while dieting.
anyway, i'll post my results when i get it figured out.
02-07-2005, 06:06 PM
I'd really like to see what you guys do for pre-contest (6 weeks up to show) and your results. I certainly wouldn't be using 4AD during that time (or at least during the last three weeks) if it were me simply due to water retention and bloat. SD with MDHT or M5AA would be great for at least the last three weeks pre-contest IMO.
02-07-2005, 07:01 PM
Mmmm... I'm already planning a sick cutting cycle this spring and this thread is giving me some good ideas.
02-07-2005, 10:06 PM
honestly, I don't experience much water retention from 4-AD. my avatar pic was taken while on 1-test/4-AD about 2 years ago.
02-08-2005, 12:50 AM
Why shut down your system totally wiht the m1t at the beginning of your cycle? Do what I did with mine, throw it in the trash.Originally Posted by j_neatherlin
02-08-2005, 08:44 AM
i didnt know a person could be competitive in NPC without AAS. is there some reason you guys are running PH/PS cycles? (and please nobody come in with "M1T and 1-T are steroids" - you know what i mean by AAS)
02-08-2005, 10:20 AM
Originally Posted by blank!
Umm, please, then what is 17beta-hydroxy-5alpha-androst-1-en-3-one classified as? Yes, it is an AAS, and a very potent one depending on the method of delivery. If you need any further feedback, please make the same contention over at Avant where PA and Tolson frequent.
02-08-2005, 10:34 AM
it was easy for me to get what I needed while these compounds were still legal. I was able to purchase what I needed at good prices. I'm not yet ready to stick a needle in my ass every few days.Originally Posted by blank!
It's not hard to be competitive in the NPC at the local level.
02-08-2005, 10:38 AM
would it really matter if I'm shutting my system down initially with the M1T? I'm going to shut it down eventually through the use of the other androgens in this cycle, anyway.Originally Posted by BOHICA
I am not a fan of M1T...in fact I had about 8 bottles of it and sold them off to a friend in Canada. Just a thought. Plus, I figured I might be better served using a different compound than Superdrol to kick start the cycle, since I'll be finishing up with SD.
02-08-2005, 10:41 AM
- 6'0" 200 lbs.
- Join Date
- Jul 2003
- Rep Power
I remember seeing a picture of you sometime last year, and you were quite ripped. Whatever you're doing works.
Good luck in the contest.
02-08-2005, 10:44 AM
My personal experience, I would start the cycle off with SD, then also end it with SD. I just don't like m1t, because of the liver and shutdown problems that occur. I meant my post more towards the liver portion, instead of shutdown. Sorry.Originally Posted by j_neatherlin
02-08-2005, 02:11 PM
depends on the person. i'm competetive on a local/regional level, but just don't have the size to go beyond that. a select few freaks can compete on a national level without aas. i think j_ has that kind of potential (from what i've seen), but he doesn't seem to want to pursue that.Originally Posted by blank!
as far as your other question goes...everyone has to to draw their own line somewhere. for me, ps/ph were a legal way to close the gap when i started using them last year.
i'll quit threadjacking now.
02-08-2005, 02:22 PM
hey kyfra and j_ just wondering what your stats are around show time, I am gonna try for my first show a year from April, and kinda need something to shoot for to where I don't look like a total ass up on stage. I'll quit threadjacking now too
02-08-2005, 03:11 PM
*sigh* had to be someone to ignore my apparent lack of desire to explain this:Originally Posted by bow
i do not assert that these compounds arent steroids. many compounds marketed as PH/pro-steroids require no conversion. let me rephrase: "conventional AAS usage" meaning long cycles, IM delivery, and most importantly - testosterone based.
and i agree w/ Sunder, j_neatherlin does appear to be in fine form.
02-08-2005, 07:23 PM
okay...I'll probably kick it off with SD and also close it out with SD.
Any more recommendations for M5AA vs. MDHT and 4AD dermal vs. converting to a test dermal?
Thanks for the props guys...although I certianly don't think I have more potential than kyfra if that's him in his avatar. He looks fantastic.
as far as my stats are concerned..I'm just shooting from the hip here, but I think last year I stepped onstage at 168, 45" chest, 32" waist 16" arms, 24" thighs, 16" calves (conservative estimates...I have the stats recorded somewhere). I don't know my % bodyfat...I don't really track it...but I might be able to dig up skinfold caliper mm measurements if you want...although I think the best I could give you is ~2 weeks out.
Lean One...if you want to trade ideas on cutting cycles, let me know. I think I have a pretty solid supplement protocol and I'm always up for learning about how others like to do it.
02-08-2005, 07:40 PM
Thanks for the offer j_ . I may take you up on that. When the time comes, I'll be starting a thread to get peoples input on what supps to use to spare muscle. When I put my mind to it, I can get down to ~5% or 6% just with Nutrition and training.(cardio) But this time I want to reach a new level of conditioning and your input would be helpful I'm sure.Originally Posted by j_neatherlin
Right now though, I'm in the middle of a bulker and I'm having too much fun enjoying the double whoppers and sausage grinders. I think I may start calling myself "not so" Lean one.
02-08-2005, 08:20 PM
We will just stick to calling you "fatty cakes" sounds good to me.
02-08-2005, 08:22 PM
C'mon now. I still have abs!... If I flex real hard.
02-08-2005, 08:54 PM
Just get them tattooed...then you can eat like a fat ass all year
BTW....wasn't there a thread about oratropin somewhere yesterday? Did it get deleted?
02-08-2005, 09:20 PM
Not by me, but it is a possibility. IBE is not a board sponsor.Originally Posted by SJA
02-10-2005, 12:33 PM
One last biggity-bump for anymore opinions.
Lean One - that's awesome that you are able to get so lean through nutrition and training alone. To be honest, I don't think I could get lean without the use of my goodies. Plus, I'm too paranoid about losing muscle...so that's I generally always cut with some androgens.
also, i like IBE...gotta support the local Louisiana businesses!
02-10-2005, 01:18 PM
I've run both M5AA and MDHT.
I ran M5AA with MOHN. This was the best cutter I've ever had. Like someone took a power sander to my love handles. Reached a level of lean I never thought possible.
Currently running MDHT with SD as a very lean bulker. Cals are slightly above maintenance. I'm already quite lean so the leaning effects, although noticable, aren't quite as profound.
What I see with this combo is alot more workout energy/intensity and increased muscle volume.
Also, MDHT is sort of like a thermogenic in the way it feels. It seems to give you energy and stamina. I've heard someone say they can't even drink coffee while on it because they get too revved up. I feel the same way.
From what I can tell I'd say M5AA and MDHT are very similar with MDHT getting the edge in workout intensity. But I don't feel you can go wrong with either.
02-10-2005, 08:55 PM
Old fart, What dose are you using for MDHT?
02-10-2005, 09:07 PM
M5AA and MOHN...i'll have to keep that in mind.
02-11-2005, 11:10 AM
Started at 75mg.Originally Posted by Lean One
I'm now up to 125mg ED split in 3 doses.
02-11-2005, 11:50 AM
02-11-2005, 12:30 PM
OF - why did you bump up to 125mg? why 3 doses instead of just preworkout?
02-11-2005, 12:53 PM
I'd say (100-150mg) that's in line with what others are taking daily for overall physical and mental effects.Originally Posted by j_neatherlin
I do take one of my doses preworkout and it tends to be my largest. This is where I realize MDHT's mental effects.
However, to realize the overall hardening effects you need to dose it throughout the day to maintain consistent levels. I believe the consensus is that half-life is 3-4 hours.
So my doses are roughly 3-4 hours apart with my last one coming just early enough at night to avoid affecting my sleep.
FYI: I ran M5AA at about 100mg ED split 3 ways too.
02-12-2005, 02:27 AM
I offered 3 alternate conversion techniques in a relatively old thread in the conversions forum. They are pretty easy and cheap too, and are all high yeild. You may want to ref that and let me know what you think. If you decide to do it, just theoretically of course, PM me and I'll walk through it.
Also, I'd go with the MDHT over the M5. However, I'm kinda with Lean One on his SD at the end suggestion. It's a great hardener, and the vascularity and density are amazing. But diet would have to be perfect because it doen't appear to encourage weight loss that well. So you could finish with the M4OHN also. They are both low suppressing with a good anabolic ratio. Start off w/ the androgen to get strength going fast and then finish with clean anabolics. You could use the M5 at the end, but it's not going to do your PCT any favors (or your contest) to end with something that suppressive and that low on anabolic quality. Many people do, but that's not my convensional strategy. M1T is a great starter, I just hate using it, you would be wise to hCG all the way if you do kick with it. I also like Kyfra's 1,4-AD phase in idea. OK, I'm done ramblin'!
02-13-2005, 07:41 PM
thanks Dr. D I will look those conversions up.
02-13-2005, 07:53 PM
I was gonna PM you, but blah lol. Anyway I will be running my first cutting cycle of my life in a couple of weeks, and was wondering some of the supps you use when on it. I posted the diet I think I will be using under the nutrition section, and just need some help tweaking it. I might run something with this SD next week to start a cutter instead of a bulker. I dunno, so many questions/decisions... so little time!!Originally Posted by j_neatherlin
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