ALRI's new phermone...
- 02-07-2005, 09:01 PM
Hey, thanks for the answers DR. D, but you didn't answer the one that matters.
Patrick Arnold is saying that this base compound has zero activity when taken orally and only a few %'s when it is attached to an ester (also taken orally).
To me this seems completely worthless unless methylated... right?
and from what I've seen other Guru's post. It shouldn't be any stronger than the PH's we already had on the market.
So if we are getting 3-5% oral activity once an ester is attached and only taking 20mg, AND it's probably not as powerful as 4ad mg/mg...
Then this should be a extreme waste of money, shouldn't it?
We would be taking 20mg of something (esterfied) that is less powerful mg/mg than 4ad, where 4ad is usually taken in 600mg-1gram doses?
How is an esterfied 20mg going do ANYTHING for a person?
From what I've theorized above, taking 20mg of this (hopefully esterfied) pheremone, would be the same as taking 5-10mg of esterfied 4ad.
Which wouldn't do anything whatsoever, not even begin to supress you.
So here are my questions...
1: Is this pheremone more powerful than 4ad mg/mg?
2: Will we get enough oral activity from this compound in BASE or ESTERFIED form, to make a difference?
3: Is this type of compound only worth a damn when it is methylated?
- 02-07-2005, 11:05 PM
- 02-07-2005, 11:22 PM
Originally Posted by TheTom
02-07-2005, 11:31 PM
Size - I asked them via email and got the same generic response posted on page 1 of this thread. I think someone close to Rea will have to release it, or get it tested.
02-07-2005, 11:32 PM
02-07-2005, 11:55 PM
The free alcohol is LT 100% of test & the acetate is in the 150% range, but that would be trans or IM, orally it would be nothing too spectacular. Maybe I read the ad wrong, I thought it said 1200% comp to MT, that would def be the methylated version. Like I said, I haven't tried the product. But I can testify that Sldg's stuff is potent. About 33% stronger that SD, but it has an edge to it. Kinder on the mood, amazingly, but a hard core androgen too, so much "dirtier" than SD. I can see a lot of guys really liking it though. If you like the hardcore stuff like MDHT and 3a,b-Diol, then this will be a real treat, because it's more anabolic that any comparable androgen out there and still about 2x as androgenic as MT. But please remember, it's a pheromone, so when I use terms like 'anabolic' or 'androgenic', I'm speaking in a relative way. I'm sure Sldg is marketing his product specifically to help you guys score with the ladies, and nothing more, so don't ask too many more questions right now. I think ALR played their cards a little too soon, we'll see what happens.Originally Posted by TheTom
02-08-2005, 12:14 AM
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Thanks for the great info. Dr. D.
Looking forward to Sledge's stuff... going to have to pass on ErgoMax though.
02-08-2005, 10:11 AM
name one methylated hormone that is worth a damn w/o the 17aa, in similar doses.Originally Posted by TheTom
02-08-2005, 07:51 PM
There are some, but they are not commercially available, yet. It is rare, but you are going to start seeing some very weird products now with the ban, so some of the old rules are going to disappear. God willing, I am hoping to have some say in this. Sldg is a great guy, he has entertained all my ideas so far.Originally Posted by blank!
02-08-2005, 10:02 PM
Im not ruling out anything for the future. The only I problem I have with ALR and this product is that if its toxic, the user should know. I think he played his cards too soon as well, a mistake I wont make.
02-08-2005, 11:06 PM
DiMethylTryptamine and away we gooo! wooohooo ... this thread sorta strikes me as insane, might aswell mention hallucinogenic drugs, mystery pheremones that promote muscle growth through mysterious means marketed to men to help attract ladies? well I hope they work like SD :POriginally Posted by jmh80
02-08-2005, 11:26 PM
02-08-2005, 11:48 PM
02-09-2005, 02:31 PM
i think im goin to try this , one bottle before i try SD so i can let everyone kno the results
ive been ph free for 2 1/2 mnths so i should respond quick if this stuff is any good
02-09-2005, 08:00 PM
02-09-2005, 09:43 PM
02-09-2005, 09:48 PM
02-09-2005, 09:53 PM
Yeah, right! Me too. I already have chrom and physicals on Sldg's, send me a bottle and I'll assay it. At least I could say what it isn't and might be.Originally Posted by D_town
02-09-2005, 11:32 PM
Do you really need a whole bottle to assay it?Originally Posted by DR.D
If it is DMT as speculated this could be very risky for all involved. Various agencies are claiming it as a designer steroid ala THG. Here's one article though I'm sure you've alll heard about it by now.
Scientists find new designer steroid
Wednesday February 2, 2005
Scientists at the World Anti-Doping Agency have discovered a new designer anabolic steroid designed specifically to evade drugs tests, fulfilling the prophecy made last year by Victor Conte.
The founder and owner of the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative, who allegedly distributed the first designer anabolic steroid tetrahydrogestrinone or THG, had claimed a new drug was already in production. "You think it's over just because they've indicted me?" he had said. "Please. There's a new version out there right now."
His claim has been confirmed by the identification of another hitherto undetectable substance called desoxymethyltestosterone (DMT). The new steroid would have a similar impact to testosterone if used, increasing strength, muscle bulk and stamina.
"Following the THG story, this is the second designer steroid we have found," Wada's scientific director Olivier Rabin said from Montreal. "We believe this was created purely for doping in sport."
Just as in the discovery of THG, officials were alerted to the existence of this new drug by a whistleblower; this time it was an anonymous emailer who alerted Wada to the seizure. Wada and professor Christiane Ayotte, the head of the Wada-accredited laboratory in Montreal, worked with Canadian customs scientists who had seized it at the border with the United States last July to determine that it was a new form of performance-enhancing steroid.
Ayotte said retests of stored urine samples taken from athletes in recent months showed no trace of the drug and she believes it was caught before it went into general circulation. "This puts us ahead of the dopers," claimed Rabin.
The new drug is the most complex substance yet discovered by testers and is several generations ahead of THG. Even officials expressed an element of admiration at the cleverness of its creation. "THG was a modification of gestrinone [a female fertility drug] by a simple one-step reaction," Ayotte said. "But in this case we know, because we exactly reproduced the way they made this product, that it is at a level of sophistication that we have not seen before.
"We now have chemists with a very serious organic chemistry background helping these people distribute these things to athletes."
Because this synthetic steroid lingers in the liver without breaking down, however, it is potentially highly damaging. "They used chemicals that are very dangerous," said Ayotte. "They are highly flammable when exposed to the air and toxic. There was no purification."
The discovery of this new drug indicates that THG was almost certainly the result of sustained development and not just the invention of an amateur scientist who got lucky. "This proves that THG was not a one-off," said Rabin. "This new substance has been discovered so quickly after THG because we learned some lessons from the THG story. This shows them how serious we are."
The cloak-and-dagger contest between the testers and rogue scientists is increasingly fascinating.
Many are returning to steroids manufactured nearly 50 years ago to try to fool the testers. By altering the pharmacological make-up of some drugs it is possible to avoid them showing up in tests or sometimes the substance is so old that they have simply been forgotten.
Such a case happened in 2003 when Dr Don Catlin, the head of the Los Angeles Wada-accredited laboratory, suspected that Tammy Thomas, an American cyclist who had won a silver medal in the 2001 world championships, was using illegal drugs but was perplexed by her test results.
After some research Catlin discovered she was using norethandrolone, a drug developed in the 1960s to help undersized men but never released after inconclusive clinical trials. Thomas was banned from cycling for life.
Catlin and Ayotte are at the forefront of the fight against doping in sport. It was Catlin who identified and developed a test for THG and now Ayotte has struck another blow.
The source for the manufacturer of these illegal drugs is suspected to be laboratories in China or India. The FBI uncovered evidence during its investigation into Conte that THG started life at a plant in Hangzhou, China, where it is easy to obtain all the raw materials needed to make designer steroids. It is probably a similar story with DMT.
"The universe of these people is large," said Catlin. "The world is big. Who knows what goes on in the nooks and crannies?"
02-09-2005, 11:59 PM
Various agencies like who? Your right, one wouldn't require much to test it, but if that's what it is, I'll keep my hands off. The numbers they gave were a bit high if it's really DesoxyMT and not what I was thinking. Thanks for the heads up.Originally Posted by ersatz
02-10-2005, 01:25 AM
Yea, I have been puttin everything together and breakin it down and putting back together. This is my conclusion. The product is only 10mg, so it has to be strong right. The ALR product is an elephant pheromone delta2-androstenol...As Sledge alluded to it would have to be methylated to be worth anything, thus methylating this compound would make 17alpha-methyl-delta2-androstenol a.k.a DMT(desoxy methyl test) the new designer drug that has been in the news recently. Anyone agree with this?
I don't mean to put it out there, Im just speculating ya feel me.
02-10-2005, 02:12 AM
ALR noted in my email with him that it is NOT a designer steroid. ALRIndustries is being "low key" about the product for specific reasons.
02-10-2005, 03:27 AM
02-10-2005, 06:08 AM
02-10-2005, 11:59 AM
Various governing bodies in sports especially those that deal with "fair play" issues are going to categorize it as a "designer steroid". The IOC will/has and several other bodies will follow. I would not want to be the supp company trying to defend it's product classification especially since the FDA will likely side with the IOC. We all know the position of the Bush administration and the new laws in effect and how an example could be made with ALRI.
Size seems to indicate that it is not DMT, but I'd be wary releasing any "anabolic pheromone" product given the functional and structural similarities between phermones and steroids.
I'm relatively sure that certain people inside this supp industry already know what the product is but are hesitant to release the info. As consumers we want to know what a product contains to gauge its effectiveness, toxicity, sides, etc. But in doing this it also supposedly makes it easier for the FDA or other body to ban this substance. I don't know if this logic is sound, as any body could easily have a product tested to see what it contains.
02-10-2005, 12:09 PM
It's going to come down in you trusting the vendor. To keep it low key this is really the only way to keep a substance out as long as it can. The ONLY person I trust this to is Matt, at DS.
02-10-2005, 07:36 PM
I don't think ANYTHING Sledge makes will be low-key anymore after Superdrol. ****, I've talked to some guys on a UM forum that also lift who knew about SD.
02-10-2005, 08:50 PM
02-10-2005, 10:19 PM
It really doesn't matter how low key he tries to make it or how clever his marketing is. The hype we as consumers generate about the product will draw the unwanted attention. Using proprietary blends to keep ingredients won't work either as it shouldn't be too difficult for a lab to figure out what chemicals are present in a product.Originally Posted by Twin Peak
02-10-2005, 10:58 PM
To the smart compounder, there are ways to mask actives, but that's not always possible or practical. The bottom line is that as consumers, we must be prudent in our dealings and always remember to take care and protect those companies that provide for us. That means that sometimes, if things get hot, it's best for us to just be silent or at least not boastful, and go underground with our infomation exchange. Also, it is sometimes nesseccary to read between the lines, and make use of the PM system to answer questions that may be misunderstood or misinterpreted if presented publically. Just like you pointed out to me earlier that I should not get involved with the ALR product testing, so we should always remind one another when we are getting to close to the edge of danger or contraversy that might endanger the future of new, designer chems.Originally Posted by ersatz
02-11-2005, 01:12 AM
Good point Dr. D, but the PM system is not accessible to everyone. I do understand what your getting at though.
02-11-2005, 06:07 AM
I know, that's too bad because I wanted to tell you something too. Donate 10 bucks and you get it back. They take CC now, so you don't have to open a PP account.Originally Posted by gizzle
02-11-2005, 09:27 AM
Excellent points. I think if we should lay low. We don't need to draw attention to ALRI, Matt or whoever.Originally Posted by DR.D
02-11-2005, 11:02 AM
While this is easy enough (and should be common sense) for the majority of us here on AM, with the release of superdrol Sledge has alot more followers now who probably don't even know about this board. When word really gets around how good SD is, his company is really going to be known well.Originally Posted by knuckles
02-11-2005, 02:47 PM
I didn't know that if you donated to the site that it would open up the PM stuff. I donated a little while ago and it still isn't available when I register. I just thought that the webmaster and mods didn't want to open it up.Originally Posted by DR.D
How would I go about checking to see what might be causing this?
Sorry to go off topic, but I am following and am interested in the info on the thread.
02-11-2005, 03:06 PM
02-11-2005, 04:17 PM
02-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Also LO I would like to make a donation but when I click on the link in the upper right it just brings me to a paypal page and I would like to use credit card. Can you point me in the right direction.
Originally Posted by Lean One
02-11-2005, 05:06 PM
02-11-2005, 05:12 PM
Lean One, where you at man! He's probably fixing it right now. All I know, is that when I contributed, it was kind of vauge. I got the PPal page too and wasn't quite sure if I was going to be about to use my CCard or not, but it was OK. At the very end of the transaction, it asks if you would like to establish a PPal account for next time, just say no if you don't want to. But it isn't clear until then.Originally Posted by Mr.50
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