Non Methyl Cycle Options

[JD284]

Hey guys, I have 3 cycles under my belt - var, epi+tren e (dienelone) and DMZ. I have decided to stick with non methyls and go the safest route possible. I am considering a few different products and I am wondering if someone with experience with these can point me in the right direction. I am 5'10, 205lb ~13% BF and my stats are low 300s for 1 -3 reps on bench, squats and deads (so around 280 is my working set weight for each exercise).

Cycle history: I tend to respond to "bulking" cycles more than "cutting" cycles. Var made me solid and cut me up a bit, but it made my joints sore. Epi and Tren dragged me to the ground with lethargy and moodiness. DMZ, i responded the best too with the only side of slight lethargy (ran transdermal test with it, so i probably just needed a little more). I kept about 8lbs from DMZ and increased weights quite a bit, sustaining the gains in PCT.

I still have some time to take off, but I want to get some feedback on ANDRO products:

FL Alpha Lab Kit
LG Sciences BULK andro kit / Trifects kit
AndroFactory Bulk Up
AMS Pro anabolic/anabolic growth kit


In general, if i am expecting results similar to DMZ, should I:
double dose a kit (1 kit)
one after another for an extended cycle (2 kits)
double dose and extended use (~3 or 4 kit)

Bulk up is kind of in it's own category, but i think i would at least need 2 bottles for significant results?

Or do I have the wrong idea here, and should not expect anything similar to results from methylated DS?

I am currently taking the following as i am finishing up PCT:
400mg Icariins 40% (horny goat weed)
350mg Longjack (tongkat ali extract)
1g Tribulus
3g DAA
750mg Agmatine
2-4g Betaine
1g Cissus Quadrangulus
5g CEE

2 scoops Hemo Rage malicious melon (original formula with DMAA) pre workout
12 fish oil caps a day (must come out to a few grams)
Optimen multi

My goal is to get my 1-3 rep range to become my working set range (8-10 reps).

Thanks everyone

 

[sysadmn]

What, no creatine? I thought that was mandatory here

Have you considered Arachidonic Acid (ARA) (see hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid)? It's a non-steroid fatty acid that has been shown to be anabolic. It's somewhat pricey, but shown to have good effect.

 

[JD284]

What, no creatine? I thought that was mandatory here

Have you considered Arachidonic Acid (ARA) (see hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid)? It's a non-steroid fatty acid that has been shown to be anabolic. It's somewhat pricey, but shown to have good effect.

I see my preworkout (pwo) has creatine and ARA in it, and I also take CEE.
Would it be better to add more ARA since it is part of a proprietary mix in my PWO? I've seen x-gels @ nutraplanet before

 

[harbonah]

I would go with AMS Pro anabolic/anabolic growth kit. If you want results similar to a Methyl Ds or as close as you can get buy two kits and two extra bottles of 1AD so you can really push the dose of 1ad through the roof. Double dose the two kits and push the 1ad as high as you can with out wanting to sleep all day .

 

[sysadmn]

I'm not sure how much ARA is in the PWO, but I doubt it's much. There is a study showing as little as 80 mg increases red blood cells and plasma levels. One egg has about 80 mg.

Examine.com recommends 2,000 mg 45 minutes before workout; SNS (X-gels) recommends up to 4 x 250 mg with meals. Apparently, ARA uptake increases during exercise. I'll be trying 250 mg PWO + 250 mg with first meal in a coming cycle.

 

[JD284]

I would go with AMS Pro anabolic/anabolic growth kit. If you want results similar to a Methyl Ds or as close as you can get buy two kits and two extra bottles of 1AD so you can really push the dose of 1ad through the roof. Double dose the two kits and push the 1ad as high as you can with out wanting to sleep all day .

Thanks for the recommendation! Any reason why this one over the others? Growth kit has 1-Androsterone RDe, 4-AD RDe and Decavol RDe while pro anabolic kit has 4-AD RDe, Decavol RDe and Arom-X. I would assume the first is the best, with the test boost stack i listed above + something like Erase would be fine for PCT.
Is 1AD typically stronger than 4AD (hence the recommendation)?
Also any idea about Epi-1-Test? Just saw it, and it looks pretty good.

Price wise, it may be best to get a combination of kits lol.

Thansk again

 

[JD284]

I'm not sure how much ARA is in the PWO, but I doubt it's much. There is a study showing as little as 80 mg increases red blood cells and plasma levels. One egg has about 80 mg.

Examine.com recommends 2,000 mg 45 minutes before workout; SNS (X-gels) recommends up to 4 x 250 mg with meals. Apparently, ARA uptake increases during exercise. I'll be trying 250 mg PWO + 250 mg with first meal in a coming cycle.

Hmm very interesting. I will do some pricing on ARA! It definitely sounds like a great compound to add to the stack!

 

[harbonah]

Thanks for the recommendation! Any reason why this one over the others? Growth kit has 1-Androsterone RDe, 4-AD RDe and Decavol RDe while pro anabolic kit has 4-AD RDe, Decavol RDe and Arom-X. I would assume the first is the best, with the test boost stack i listed above + something like Erase would be fine for PCT.
Is 1AD typically stronger than 4AD (hence the recommendation)?
Also any idea about Epi-1-Test? Just saw it, and it looks pretty good.

Price wise, it may be best to get a combination of kits lol.

Thansk again

1AD is the strongest and if you plan to push the dose high I would not go with an otc pct at high dose 1ad as it has shown to convert to 1test fairly well so you will be shutdown your best pct would be a SERM.

Either stack would work I just copied and pasted what you had up there as in either or. If I was going to build my own it would be decavol/4ad/1ad keep decavol/4ad just above recommended dosing on the bottle and slam 1ad as high as you can! Both 4ad and decavol can convert to estrogen so taking them together I would not go much above the bottle recommendations. Epi-1-Test looks great to me but I have not tried it yet, although I do love Epi-Androsterone and I have used both via 5-alpha test and 1ad at the same time.

 

[JD284]

1AD is the strongest and if you plan to push the dose high I would not go with an otc pct at high dose 1ad as it has shown to convert to 1test fairly well so you will be shutdown your best pct would be a SERM.

Either stack would work I just copied and pasted what you had up there as in either or. If I was going to build my own it would be decavol/4ad/1ad keep decavol/4ad just above recommended dosing on the bottle and slam 1ad as high as you can! Both 4ad and decavol can convert to estrogen so taking them together I would not go much above the bottle recommendations. Epi-1-Test looks great to me but I have not tried it yet, although I do love Epi-Androsterone and I have used both via 5-alpha test and 1ad at the same time.

Awesome thanks. I have a lot of tamox stockpiled away so i can always add that. what's a good cycle length for this? you mentioned 2 kits to double dose but then keeping around recommended dose on bottle for decavol/4ad? perhaps 1 anabolic growth kit and 1 andro test stack (1AD + Epi-1-test) run together sound good?

Growth kit is for 4 weeks at recommended dosing.
Andro-Test Stack Includes a 30 Day Supply of 1-Andro Liquid (1st 15 days) & Epi-1-Test Liquid (2nd 15 days) (at 4 doses a day of each)

So it would be:
1AD(growth kit) - 2 tabs a day
Decavol(growth kit) - 2 tabs a day
4AD (growth kit) - 2 tabs a day
1AD Liquid - 2 doses a day
Epi-1-Test Liquid - 2 doses a day

is this the best way to stack it? (andro test stack -2 doses for 30 days instead of 4 doses for 15 days each) or do you think more 1AD is needed?

best price i can find is $140 shipped for both

Based on the descriptions, i wonder if it is better just to run 2 or 3 Andro Test Stacks? 2 stacks would allow me to run both compunds at 4 doses a day for 4 weeks instead of 1st 15 days and second 15 days

1-Andro Liquid™ is a prohormone solution suspended in liquid that contains 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one, converts to 1-Test and exhibits strength and lean mass gains. For all these reasons – it is a perfect prohormone to stack with Epi-Androsterone if you do not want to use 4-AD RDe as your stacking prohormone due to its “wet” side effects such as estrogen spillover etc.,

Epi-1-Test Liquid™ is dual prohormone solution suspended in liquid that contains both 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one & Epi-Androsterone. 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one ,which converts to 1-Test, exhibits strength and lean mass gains while Epi-Androsterone is an extremely rare prohormone that converts to DHT – which exhibits increased aggressiveness, improves libido, promotes a positive energy balance and has a known hardening effect. For all these reasons – it is a perfect prohormone to stack with 1-Androstene-3b-ol, 17-one if you do not want to use 4-AD RDe as your stacking prohormone due to its “wet” side effects such as estrogen spillover etc.

thanks

 

[mw1]

Hmm very interesting. I will do some pricing on ARA! It definitely sounds like a great compound to add to the stack!

You should be able to find it for about $35/bottle. @ 100caps taken on workout days it should last you 5 or so weeks

 

[JD284]

You should be able to find it for about $35/bottle. @ 100caps taken on workout days it should last you 5 or so weeks

thanks - are you referring to the dose recommended above?

8 caps (2g) preworkout should last 4 weeks of 3 workout days or 3 weeks of 4 workout days.

6 caps (1.5g) prewrokout will last 4 weeks with 4 workouts each

I eat 4 eggs a day so thats a little over 1 pill based on the explanation above

 

[DWeaver]

ARA is awesome. I'd give it a try, I think you'll like it. I've seen some compare it to a very mild PH and I'll have to agree. Don't know how much you know about the supp but just take it on W/O days only. I'm 175lb and 1.5G was enough for me. This is what I ran with it and I was doing a recomp.

XGels
Glycer Grow (GMS)
DAA
ALCAR
Forskolin 95
Game Day
Creatine
Beta Alanine
Agmatine

Pumps are sick BTW

 

[Montego1]

FINAFLEX 1Alpha or 1Andro would be great choices for a non methyl cycle as well.

Could hit a nice little eight week run then PCT with ARA. Pretty promising.

 

[AlexPowell]

I think what you're truly after is testosterone

 

[JD284]

FINAFLEX 1Alpha or 1Andro would be great choices for a non methyl cycle as well.

Could hit a nice little eight week run then PCT with ARA. Pretty promising.

Thanks! What dose would you recommend for dosage?

2 bottles of 1 andro is 4 caps for 30 days - were you suggesting 2 bottles back to back then pct?

 

[JD284]

ARA is awesome. I'd give it a try, I think you'll like it. I've seen some compare it to a very mild PH and I'll have to agree. Don't know how much you know about the supp but just take it on W/O days only. I'm 175lb and 1.5G was enough for me. This is what I ran with it and I was doing a recomp.

XGels
Glycer Grow (GMS)
DAA
ALCAR
Forskolin 95
Game Day
Creatine
Beta Alanine
Agmatine

Pumps are sick BTW

Thanks I am definitely going to look into it!!

 

[AlexPowell]

If you want a sick pump, take 25mg of viagra pre workout
better than any NO product, pre-workout, whatever. Roadmap veins

 

[JD284]

If you want a sick pump, take 25mg of viagra pre workout
better than any NO product, pre-workout, whatever. Roadmap veins

Thanks Alex. At this point, I'm just looking for non methyl non black market items

 

[AlexPowell]

haha, I just get mine from the doctor
"I have problems", insurance even covers it lol

Really though, I think you're best off just buying real gear. It's cheaper and better for you but I understand not everyone wants to break the law. A cc of test will get you pretty ****ing far over the course of a year and will cost what, $30-50 every 10 weeks?

 

[13bret]

Hexadrone and dermacrine gets my vote

 

[13bret]

My opinion is this^^^^^ would be better than a AMS stack even if you quadruple dose

 

[Beau]

Thanks Alex. At this point, I'm just looking for non methyl non black market items

Potassium nitrate and agmatine = pumps a plenty.

 

[AlexPowell]

Potassium nitrate and agmatine = pumps a plenty.

Interesting about the potassium nitrate, I didn't think that was edible honestly but I used to make smoke grenades from this back in the day. **** was so cash

 

[JD284]

haha, I just get mine from the doctor
"I have problems", insurance even covers it lol

Really though, I think you're best off just buying real gear. It's cheaper and better for you but I understand not everyone wants to break the law. A cc of test will get you pretty ****ing far over the course of a year and will cost what, $30-50 every 10 weeks?

i completely understand and agree - but i've decided to stick with andro supplements for the reasons i mentioned in my first post and for other personal reasons.At this point i my life I do want to stay on this side of the fence. I appreciate your contributions to this thread even though i'm not going in that direction. I'm happy i've gotten so many responses so far, and i'd like to thank everyone who has contributed so far.

 

[AlexPowell]

The "Trenavar" is pretty good
Will shut you down pretty hard tho

 

[JD284]

Potassium nitrate and agmatine = pumps a plenty.

I've been taking agmatine 750mg / day + whatever is in my preworkout. pumps have been great so far. never heard of the potassium

 

[Beau]

I've been taking agmatine 750mg / day + whatever is in my preworkout. pumps have been great so far. never heard of the potassium

Two words: Buy it.

You will be amazed at the combination.

 

[JD284]

Two words: Buy it.

You will be amazed at the combination.

cool will look into it thanks! i take this right now
http://www.ronniecolemannutrition.com/859-Hemo-rage-Black-2lb-Melon-Malicious-Melon.htm

doesnt appear to have PN

 

[JD284]

how about E-Bol or Synthagen, how do those compare to the stacks i listed?

 

[daniel11]

I think what you're truly after is testosterone

Funny how that works really. I think there is some truth to this!!!

 

[daniel11]

Dienozone is a wonderful non-methyl option.

Great for strength, muscle fullness, and it's proven effective. Nice lean gains.

Can stack it with anything really.

Maybe look into a Dienozone + 1AD stack

 

[sysadmn]

I think what you're truly after is testosterone

Oral Testosterone Undecanote is available. It works pretty well, but only has a 4-6 hour half-life and is expensive as hell. The TRT dose of 2 40 mg capsules a day runs >$60/month! It's not hard to find pharma grade, so you have a better shot at knowing what you're getting.

 

[AnthroLats]

Is it possible to reach injection level test in the blood with oral undecanoate? Would be mighty expensive, but I've read on another board that its useless and can't provide supra physiological levels.

 

[AlexPowell]

Wouldn't be hard to extract and pin it

 

[harbonah]

Hexadrone and dermacrine gets my vote

I wont touch hexadrone at least one batch contained testosterone and I think delta6 testosterone. Not that those two are bad but they are well...not on the label so who knows what the next batch will have in it. And their Alpha 1 was DHEA.

 

[harbonah]

I will say I liked that companies epistane product...but after finding this out I wont be trying any of their products for a long time to come.

 

[daniel11]

There is certainly something to be said for reputation and trust for a company in this business. Quality, consistency and integrity is a must for building customer loyalty and satisfaction.

There are many companies in the market but only a good handful that have earned this type of customer acceptance and continue to put out great products.

;-)

 

[EatMoar]

FINAFLEX 1Alpha or 1Andro would be great choices for a non methyl cycle as well.

Could hit a nice little eight week run then PCT with ARA. Pretty promising.

I may give this a go because I was going to do another methyl run but I don't feel like stressing my liver.

I've ran some androfactory stuff and I've had great results cutting to 8% with lean cut . but I'm assuming you want to bulk, their max bulk with 4dhea/11dhea is supposedly good. Run that with some trest boom.

 

[JD284]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I've decided to go with MASS Kre-Anabolyn and the Blueprint plan for now. Maybe I will try some suggestions here in the future!