Traditional AAS not an option; best strength stack?

[Dimitrius]

Hello,

Here's a scenario: Imagine you had a friend... we'll call him "Dim...", uh, "Steve". Steve has a job in which drug tests/polygraphs are routine. So, traditional AAS use is out. Now, grey market chems or PH use is not necessarily a problem. Since Steve needs to be careful, and PHs are constantly getting knocked off the market/introduced to the market, what would be the best PH or PH stack to use for strength? This is assuming Steve has access to all of the cycle support/PCT products necessary to keep sides in check and stay healthy. Would PHs even be worth trying? Are the gains enough to outweigh the risks without being able to run a test base?

 

[harbonah]

Hello,

Here's a scenario: Imagine you had a friend... we'll call him "Dim...", uh, "Steve". Steve has a job in which drug tests/polygraphs are routine. So, traditional AAS use is out. Now, grey market chems or PH use is not necessarily a problem. Since Steve needs to be careful, and PHs are constantly getting knocked off the market/introduced to the market, what would be the best PH or PH stack to use for strength? This is assuming Steve has access to all of the cycle support/PCT products necessary to keep sides in check and stay healthy. Would PHs even be worth trying? Are the gains enough to outweigh the risks without being able to run a test base?

1AD and Alpha Bulk if its your first cycle. And remember if they are actually testing you for steroids a lot of the prohormones on the market will make you test positive for their respective parent hormones.
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/forerunner-labs/alpha-bulk-168-liquicaps.html
http://www.nutraplanet.com/product/advanced-muscle-science/1-andro-rde-chrome-60-tablets.html

 

[drewsicle3210]

Hey Dim, uh, Steve.
Harbonah is correct. You would be looking at what he suggested, another option would be FinaFlex 1-Alpha, or 1-Andro. Those are good started PH's, mild, and productive.

Good Luck brother!!

I don't suppose you want to let on what you do? Has to be government with polygraphs.

 

[Dimitrius]

Hey Dim, uh, Steve.
Harbonah is correct. You would be looking at what he suggested, another option would be FinaFlex 1-Alpha, or 1-Andro. Those are good started PH's, mild, and productive.

Good Luck brother!!

I don't suppose you want to let on what you do? Has to be government with polygraphs.

Thanks for the replies gents. Yeah, Steve wouldn't be too keen on getting into what he does for a living. At any rate, I'm not worried about the drug testing so much as doing anything actually illegal, as anything blatantly against the law would mean I'd lose my job among other things. The testing they do wouldn't be sophisticated enough to test hormone levels, and even if they did, I would just show them what I was taking and claim ignorance. As long as I don't violate the letter of the law, I can do whatever I want.

The reason I am interested in PHs, aside from the legal aspects, is that I've long been past beginner gains and have been slow gaining for a couple years now. I am not a bodybuilder - I powerlift. Ever since my squat and dead got around the 400/500 lb. range it's been slow going. I've got a comp coming up in April, and I've always played around with the idea of trying something extra to supplement my hard work.

Now, a few other questions I have would be:

1. DHEA and DAA post cycle plus nolva/clomid sound good? (or will I not need PCT?)

2. Why take two things that convert to test and 1-test respectively? What is the synergy there?

3. TUDCA every day enough for liver support? Red yeast rice to keep cholesterol down, or will it not impact my levels that much?

Just for some stats, I'm 6'1", 212, 25 years old, ex-military (used to training), eat relatively clean (without obsessing over it), and am on a high-volume, heavy program that has me squatting 3X a week and benching 3X a week. Thanks again guys.

 

[00S4Boy]

Sounds like you want Methadrol Extreme or Alpha M60.

Methadrol Extreme is Blackstone labs M-sten 10mg, dmz 15mg, lmg 15mg per pill there is a sweet deal on it out there right now sorry can't tell ya where but it's easy to find. I'd personally add in some solo lmg as well the dosing is low.

Alpha M60 is 20mg M1A 40mg mechabol per pill 2 to 3 of those a day and you'll be pumped too.

 

[SPLocal]

For mild cycles/doses like the previous suggestions, TUDCA would not be needed.
If you are still interested in liver/cardiovascular/cholesterol/lipid support I recommend Antaeus Lab's Talos--though by no means is it necessary with those compounds.

As a bodybuilder-turned-powerlifter with several PH/DS cycles of experience, I would consider looking into Mithras (Dimethandrostenol) or Dienazone (transdermal Dienolone). These compounds produced linear and easily maintained strength gains for me. Mithras is particularly versatile in that it does not drastically increase water/glycogen storage (if you are concerned about maintaining your weight). Dienaonze, though known for increasing blood pressure, would be relatively milder on your liver as a transdermal solution.

I employed Mithras in the lead-in to my first meet and had a great experience: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/cycle-info/235340-serving-iron-legion.html

Feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any questions regarding Antaeus Labs supports or Iron Legion PH/DS!

PCT for any of the compounds mentioned (including harbonah and drews suggestions) would entail DAA+SERM (Nolva or Clomid).

 

[drewsicle3210]

I have read that about Mithras.

 

[sysadmn]

1. DHEA and DAA post cycle plus nolva/clomid sound good? (or will I not need PCT?)

. . .

3. TUDCA every day enough for liver support? Red yeast rice to keep cholesterol down, or will it not impact my levels that much?

Strictly speaking, nolva/clomid are illegal, but you could buy research chemicals and claim ignorance.

Red Yeast Rice may or may not help with cholesterol. In the US, the RYR sold does not have the statin (lovistatin) that lowers cholesterol. Some people see good results from the remaining bioactive ingredients. If your cholesterol comes back high, ask your doctor about prescribing a statin.

 

[00S4Boy]

Strictly speaking, nolva/clomid are illegal, but you could buy research chemicals and claim ignorance.

Red Yeast Rice may or may not help with cholesterol. In the US, the RYR sold does not have the statin (lovistatin) that lowers cholesterol. Some people see good results from the remaining bioactive ingredients. If your cholesterol comes back high, ask your doctor about prescribing a statin.

Their not illegal their prescription.

 

[sysadmn]

Their not illegal their prescription.

Yeah, I could have been more clear. If he doesn't have a prescription, they're illegal. I don't think Nolva is prescribed for men, (except possibly breast cancer patients). Clomid is sometimes prescribed to men for HPTA restart or fertility. If you want to split hairs, testosterone and many fine steroids aren't illegal, just prescription.

Edit: I'm still not expressing myself clearly. As jbryand101b points out, possession of SERMs isn't illegal. My understanding is that you cannot legally buy them for drug use without a prescription. "Research Chemicals" skirt this because it's claimed they are not for human use. Testosterone is a controlled substance under the Anabolic Steroids Control Act, and has been assigned to Schedule III.

Summary: if you want advice on the law, talk to an attorney.

 

[jbryand101b]

No, serms aren't controlled substances.

Not illegal to have without a rx.

Testosterone is a class 3 controlled substance, and illegal to possess without a prescription.

 

[Dimitrius]

Thanks for the replies gentlemen! I'll have to give the cycle some thought.

 

[Tansui]

it also should be mentioned that if you want to increase strength you need to lift heavy with less reps if you're not to sore to squat 3x a week then your not lifting heavy enough imo

 

[KenTheEagle]

Hello,

Here's a scenario: Imagine you had a friend... we'll call him "Dim...", uh, "Steve". Steve has a job in which drug tests/polygraphs are routine. So, traditional AAS use is out. Now, grey market chems or PH use is not necessarily a problem. Since Steve needs to be careful, and PHs are constantly getting knocked off the market/introduced to the market, what would be the best PH or PH stack to use for strength? This is assuming Steve has access to all of the cycle support/PCT products necessary to keep sides in check and stay healthy. Would PHs even be worth trying? Are the gains enough to outweigh the risks without being able to run a test base?

I think that Dim.... I mean "Steve" is a p...sy and is afraid of needles and syringes, but thats not a bad thing, as I used to be afraid too and it took months to overcome the fear!. Anyways please tell Steve that he can try a 6 weeker of PHs, there are so many options..... If I were you.... I mean, If i were Steve, I would use dermacrine as a test base for 6-8 weeks (which is topical), and stack it with an oral PH, maybe halodrol at 75 or 100 for 6 weeks only.

You can choose halodrol, epi, 11-oxo, trenavar, and so on, and the dermacrine will really serve you as a test base trust me.... anyways what I would do is

dermacrine for 8 weeks*

Halodrol: x/x/75/75/75/100/100/100

11-oxo minimal dose for 6 weeks 2 (you can kickstart it)

for strength superdrol would be the best choice but lets skip it as steve seems to be a PH virgin too, stay away from superdrol for now... (hope steve listen to this )

Oh and yes! definately use tudca and milk thistle combined as well as support supps. for this run you can keep your pct simple and only use clomid at 25 for 4 weeks with other OTC PCT compounds like DAA and all that.

 

[heavylifter33]

I'd actually recommend a SARM.

 

[PhatBoy07]

I think that Dim.... I mean "Steve" is a p...sy and is afraid of needles and syringes, but thats not a bad thing, as I used to be afraid too and it took months to overcome the fear!. Anyways please tell Steve that he can try a 6 weeker of PHs, there are so many options..... If I were you.... I mean, If i were Steve, I would use dermacrine as a test base for 6-8 weeks (which is topical), and stack it with an oral PH, maybe halodrol at 75 or 100 for 6 weeks only.

You can choose halodrol, epi, 11-oxo, trenavar, and so on, and the dermacrine will really serve you as a test base trust me.... anyways what I would do is

dermacrine for 8 weeks*

Halodrol: x/x/75/75/75/100/100/100

11-oxo minimal dose for 6 weeks 2 (you can kickstart it)

for strength superdrol would be the best choice but lets skip it as steve seems to be a PH virgin too, stay away from superdrol for now... (hope steve listen to this )

Oh and yes! definately use tudca and milk thistle combined as well as support supps. for this run you can keep your pct simple and only use clomid at 25 for 4 weeks with other OTC PCT compounds like DAA and all that.

Sounds like "steve" is in law enforcement. Not afraid of needles, and could be fired for illegal or immoral behavior.

 

[B5150]

Steve needs to remember that this industry is full of unethical and unscrupulous business people, whom the majority of which (yes, even some boards sponsor products too), purchase their raw materials from China and conduct no quality assurance in their procurement, manufacturing and distribution of same Chinese chemical.

Point being - you may be taking a legal OTC product that is contaminated with a controlled and illegal chemical.

If it were me and my career - no dice!

Good luck.