Want to start first cycle, would like advice

[HolyRoller]

Hey everyone. I have been lurking on these forums just reading for a while, but finally decided to register. I am thinking about starting a 5 week cycle w/Halo and was hoping everyone here could help give me some advice.

First a little about myself, I am 25 years old, 5'7", and only about 143 lbs. I have started weightlifting before but never managed to be able to put on any real bulk and have always gotten demotivated due to lack of results and stopped. I need a healthy hobby and decided several weeks ago that I wanted to start taking better care of my body and try to build a better physique. Since I have an infant daughter, a full time job, and my wife to take care of I decided to build a home gym out of my spare office as it is more feasible than signing up for my nearest gym. I have an adjustable incline benchpress, a rack of different weight dumbells, a curve bar, and a pull up bar.

I am currently drinking whey protein shakes, a "mass building shake", and taking 6star test. booster. I am trying to eat constantly through the day, consuming a few hundred grams of protein and a few thousand calories with a big meal both before and after my workout. I must admit though I do not yet have a good enough schedule and food supply to keep this consistent - although if I did a cycle with Halo I would.

My genetics suck, and even though I have not given my current regimen enough time to show real results I know that if the past is any indication of the future I will def. not blow up the way that I want to. That is why I was considering a 5 week cycle:

During cycle:
Haloplex @ 50/75/75/75/75
AI Cycle Support
Fish oil
Protein
Multivitamins

PCT:
Clomid @ 50/50/25/25 <-- not sure about dosage open to suggestions
Post cycle support
Cycle support
Multivit.
Fish oil
Test. booster

I know that I am under my genetic potential and could achieve gains without PH's but this is something I want to do to help build me up enough that I gain some more confidence in my body and more motivation to keep pushing myself. I read a post by an oldtimer somewhere saying something like, "when I was young you took steroids to get big, now you have to be big to take them". I choose the former.. And from what I have read Halo is relatively mild, produces dry muscle, is easy to bounce back from post cycle, builds bulk, and has little sides. Sounds good.

Obviously I only have a very limited idea of what the **** I am talking about, which is why I am here to ask for advice and suggestions. And sorry about the length of this post, brevity was never one of my virtues.

 

[HolyRoller]

Edit: If I do a cycle I have decided that epi will probably be better for bulking instead of halo.

 

[pyrobatt]

Hey everyone. I have been lurking on these forums just reading for a while, but finally decided to register. I am thinking about starting a 5 week cycle w/Halo and was hoping everyone here could help give me some advice.

First a little about myself, I am 25 years old, 5'7", and only about 143 lbs. I have started weightlifting before but never managed to be able to put on any real bulk and have always gotten demotivated due to lack of results and stopped. I need a healthy hobby and decided several weeks ago that I wanted to start taking better care of my body and try to build a better physique. Since I have an infant daughter, a full time job, and my wife to take care of I decided to build a home gym out of my spare office as it is more feasible than signing up for my nearest gym. I have an adjustable incline benchpress, a rack of different weight dumbells, a curve bar, and a pull up bar.

I am currently drinking whey protein shakes, a "mass building shake", and taking 6star test. booster. I am trying to eat constantly through the day, consuming a few hundred grams of protein and a few thousand calories with a big meal both before and after my workout. I must admit though I do not yet have a good enough schedule and food supply to keep this consistent - although if I did a cycle with Halo I would.

My genetics suck, and even though I have not given my current regimen enough time to show real results I know that if the past is any indication of the future I will def. not blow up the way that I want to. That is why I was considering a 5 week cycle:

During cycle:
Haloplex @ 50/75/75/75/75
AI Cycle Support
Fish oil
Protein
Multivitamins

PCT:
Clomid @ 50/50/25/25 <-- not sure about dosage open to suggestions
Post cycle support
Cycle support
Multivit.
Fish oil
Test. booster

I know that I am under my genetic potential and could achieve gains without PH's but this is something I want to do to help build me up enough that I gain some more confidence in my body and more motivation to keep pushing myself. I read a post by an oldtimer somewhere saying something like, "when I was young you took steroids to get big, now you have to be big to take them". I choose the former.. And from what I have read Halo is relatively mild, produces dry muscle, is easy to bounce back from post cycle, builds bulk, and has little sides. Sounds good.

Obviously I only have a very limited idea of what the **** I am talking about, which is why I am here to ask for advice and suggestions. And sorry about the length of this post, brevity was never one of my virtues.

First realize your baseline testosterone level will never be the same. Second if you havent gotten any gains and havent been lifting for a while your diet and training need to be improved. Jumping to STEROIDS because you dont want to put in the work is cheating yourself.
Third if you're interested in having children right now ..this would not be a good time to cycle.

That being said maybe a milder ph could do you. Anything by androfactory. You can even do with an otc pct with af.

Clomid dose im not sure of but everything else looks good .

 

[HolyRoller]

Thanks for your advice. I am not looking for any more children right now, one is quite enough for the time being lol. I am confident that my diet is solid, although I am not an experienced enough weightlifter to say that my training schedule and routine is the best, but I am doing as much research as I can to try to perfect it. Yesterday I was off, I am walking around with t-rex arms because of DOMS, I can barely extend my arms past 90 degrees.

I am all ears for other suggestions regarding more mild ph's, although I thought epi was already pretty mild. It would be easier for me to not have to order the clomid or nolva from an online pharmacy anyways and taking an otc pct, I just want to be as safe as possible. What androfactory ph do you recommend for bulking/my first cycle.

And what do you mean that my baseline test lvl will never be the same?

 

[pyrobatt]

Thanks for your advice. I am not looking for any more children right now, one is quite enough for the time being lol. I am confident that my diet is solid, although I am not an experienced enough weightlifter to say that my training schedule and routine is the best, but I am doing as much research as I can to try to perfect it. Yesterday I was off, I am walking around with t-rex arms because of DOMS, I can barely extend my arms past 90 degrees.

I am all ears for other suggestions regarding more mild ph's, although I thought epi was already pretty mild. It would be easier for me to not have to order the clomid or nolva from an online pharmacy anyways and taking an otc pct, I just want to be as safe as possible. What androfactory ph do you recommend for bulking/my first cycle.

And what do you mean that my baseline test lvl will never be the same?

Your playing with hormonal fire. There wont be that much of a change but theres a chance there will be. Especally as we as athletes get older. Gotta take care of that endocrine system. Af is mild on overall health vs a methylated ph.

 

[6andaHalf]

Gain naturally first and then cycle or you are selling yourself WAY short. Have some patience, I lifted hard 3-5 times a week with a great diet for 3 years before using Hdrol. And yes, it takes SOOOO long for us hardgainers to see anything. A PH will NOT help you. Diet and training will FAR outweigh a few tic tacs of Epi or Halo.

You think a PH will make you blow up, it wont. You will see the "gains" melt right off you during pct if you can't gain naturally in the first place.

 

[HolyRoller]

Thanks. My thought process so far has been that by taking a ph I would have increased stamina, an energy increase, an increased appetite, and to see some extra gains that I otherwise would not. I am keeping a food diary now and am confident that I can stay at my target calorie and protein range, with 5 or 6 healthy meals each day. I appreciate your advice, and this isn't something that I am 100% set on - although I do think that if done properly I can see more advantages than disadvantages when all is said and done. I am not getting that $200 androfactory supp, and if I did I would definitely still use a SERM like nolva or clomid for my pct than an otc pct mix. When it all comes down to it my lasting health is more important to me than a minor inconvenience by ordering a serm or saving an extra few dollars but suffering for it.

As far as epi and halo go, I read that there are few sides, they are not methylated compounds, and many come off them without a serm (which I am not doing, only mentioning because it has lead me to the impression that they are very mild). Am I making an incorrect assumption? Are there other PH's that are even more mild on the body and easier to bounce back from during PCT where I will still see the gains and energy that I am looking for?

 

[pyrobatt]

Thanks. My thought process so far has been that by taking a ph I would have increased stamina, an energy increase, an increased appetite, and to see some extra gains that I otherwise would not. I am keeping a food diary now and am confident that I can stay at my target calorie and protein range, with 5 or 6 healthy meals each day. I appreciate your advice, and this isn't something that I am 100% set on - although I do think that if done properly I can see more advantages than disadvantages when all is said and done. I am not getting that $200 androfactory supp, and if I did I would definitely still use a SERM like nolva or clomid for my pct than an otc pct mix. When it all comes down to it my lasting health is more important to me than a minor inconvenience by ordering a serm or saving an extra few dollars but suffering for it.

As far as epi and halo go, I read that there are few sides, they are not methylated compounds, and many come off them without a serm (which I am not doing, only mentioning because it has lead me to the impression that they are very mild). Am I making an incorrect assumption? Are there other PH's that are even more mild on the body and easier to bounce back from during PCT where I will still see the gains and energy that I am looking for?

Please note that the gains from any steroid needs some major work to keep. If you gain 12 lbs off of epi or w/e you have to increase intensity when off to keep the gains.

If you're not gaining /not growing now with your training and diet you probably wont keep the gains from any ph.

That being said.... stano is another option

 

[OnionKnight]

cycle at your point is pretty much a waste of money and time. if you cnt even motivate yurself normlly, youre gonna feel like complete shet when the lethrgy kicks in

then add in that you lack the training and diet experience to keep anything you gain from the cycle. so whatever you gain will just melt right off during pct due to a general lack of experience

in my opinion, youd be much better off with a good preworkout. you say you lack the motivation to go... well a good stim will take care of that. once you get the basics of diet manipulation and some solid strength training under your belt, then youll be ready for a cycle.

+ its always a bad idea to start a cycle right as you get back into the gym. youll mistake the gains as cycle gains, when its really just newby gains from getting back into it

 

[jbryand101b]

All the guys in here are giving good advice.
But if your hard headed and really want to just do it, then do it. Your entire set up was good.
Don't use epi, use the halo, 50mg 6 weeks.

But once you take the jump, things will never be the same. As has been pointed out.
I personally think you should train consistent for another 6 months.

The bigger you are pre cycle, the bigger you'll be post cycle.

 

[HolyRoller]

Thanks a lot to everyone who posted ITT. I have decided to try a run w/the Halo as outlined in my original post, but not until I train for a few more weeks and keep up my current nutrition plan. For the next few weeks I will continue training in my home gym, as frankly I am embarrassed to go to my local gym only being able to lift such little weight... By the time I start the cycle I will have a membership to my local gym, and will be lifting there. I know I am not giving myself a ton of time to lift naturally before diving into PH's, but I guess I am just hardheaded. Thanks again..

 

[jbryand101b]

Embarrassed?

Why? Everyone starts out lifting light weight. No one starts working out able to bench 135 for 3 sets of ten.

I'm a trainer, and I don't care how much weight you push/pull, I care how your form and range of motion is.

 

[jbryand101b]

Oh, and working out at home is only for the extremely dedicated.

 

[HolyRoller]

Oh, and working out at home is only for the extremely dedicated.

Well, I already filled half my office with freeweights, dumbells, and a bench - and have started in there. Obv. I am not claiming extreme dedication (yet), but having the setup certainly can't hurt.

 

[fueledpassion]

Thanks for your advice. I am not looking for any more children right now, one is quite enough for the time being lol. I am confident that my diet is solid, although I am not an experienced enough weightlifter to say that my training schedule and routine is the best, but I am doing as much research as I can to try to perfect it. Yesterday I was off, I am walking around with t-rex arms because of DOMS, I can barely extend my arms past 90 degrees.
I am all ears for other suggestions regarding more mild ph's, although I thought epi was already pretty mild. It would be easier for me to not have to order the clomid or nolva from an online pharmacy anyways and taking an otc pct, I just want to be as safe as possible. What androfactory ph do you recommend for bulking/my first cycle.

And what do you mean that my baseline test lvl will never be the same?

I haven't had that problem since I was 16...

Before you start anything, send me a typical log of your diet to my inbox. I suspect you just aren't eating enough. You need to get your test levels checked before considering a cycle. If you are really low (450 or less), you might kill your pituitary after a cycle. At 25-30 years old, your body starts dropping off in T levels anyways so this might only accelerate it.

Or, you might be normal and just need to eat a little more. Even then, taking the natural route with perfect training and diet (which no one has), you shouldn't expect any more than a pound a week.

 

[mtinsideout]

Well, I already filled half my office with freeweights, dumbells, and a bench - and have started in there. Obv. I am not claiming extreme dedication (yet), but having the setup certainly can't hurt.

Definitely don't be embarrassed about being the small guy at the gym, a lot of us started as the small guy (myself included) lol... I also agree with having some weights and/or pull up bar at home, when I work late nights I can at least get in a 15-20min weight session before eating and bed. Also I would take the advice given in this thread, there is a lot of years of experience telling you some good information.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Oh, and working out at home is only for the extremely dedicated.

I work out at home....bench, free weights from 2-50's, lat and row machine, leg press etc....but i haven't missed a training session in a decade....so yeah only for the dedicated. People are usually shocked when you reveal you work out at home if you look good....most lack the dedication.

 

[mtinsideout]

I work out at home....bench, free weights from 2-50's, lat and row machine, leg press etc....but i haven't missed a training session in a decade....so yeah only for the dedicated. People are usually shocked when you reveal you work out at home if you look good....most lack the dedication.

Lol if you have no one distracting you it can be very beneficial because the weights you want will always be there. It's tough when you get home and first thing through the door some one is bombarding you with questions or asking you to take care of something.

 

[HolyRoller]

Before you start anything, send me a typical log of your diet to my inbox.
.

Hey. Thanks for taking the time to help me in this, I really appreciate it. My post count isn't high enough to send a PM, so I will upload a screenshot of today's intake so far. I still need to plan a pre and post workout meal for tonight, but I have plenty of good stuff at home to work with. The only reason a slice of Papa Johns pizza is on there is because there was a company party today at work and it was forced on me, lol.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Lol if you have no one distracting you it can be very beneficial because the weights you want will always be there. It's tough when you get home and first thing through the door some one is bombarding you with questions or asking you to take care of something.

I solve that by living alone ...and i usually w/o first thing on my days off....when its a mid-day workout day? yeah i do think about skipping for a minute lol not gonna lie.

 

[OnionKnight]

I haven't had that problem since I was 16...

Before you start anything, send me a typical log of your diet to my inbox. I suspect you just aren't eating enough. You need to get your test levels checked before considering a cycle. If you are really low (450 or less), you might kill your pituitary after a cycle. At 25-30 years old, your body starts dropping off in T levels anyways so this might only accelerate it.

Or, you might be normal and just need to eat a little more. Even then, taking the natural route with perfect training and diet (which no one has), you shouldn't expect any more than a pound a week.

its because he just got back into lifting and is a chest and arms warrior like every other newby

 

[pyrobatt]

Hey. Thanks for taking the time to help me in this, I really appreciate it. My post count isn't high enough to send a PM, so I will upload a screenshot of today's intake so far. I still need to plan a pre and post workout meal for tonight, but I have plenty of good stuff at home to work with. The only reason a slice of Papa Johns pizza is on there is because there was a company party today at work and it was forced on me, lol.

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=88656"/>

Nobody can take the fork and put it in your mouth.

 

[fueledpassion]

Nobody can take the fork and put it in your mouth.

Haha agreed.

Eat more carbs man. You are 140ish pounds. Dont worry about getting fat! Eat 1g per pound in protein and 2-3g/lb in carbs. Fats will happen as you hit those other numbers.

For growth, carbs are super important at every meal since you need that insulin working hard for you.

 

[pyrobatt]

Haha agreed.

Eat more carbs man. You are 140ish pounds. Dont worry about getting fat! Eat 1g per pound in protein and 2-3g/lb in carbs. Fats will happen as you hit those other numbers.

For growth, carbs are super important at every meal since you need that insulin working hard for you.

Agreed. Adding coleslaw* get a big vaccume package at sams* to my egg meals * or high protein low carb meal* has saved me .

 

[jbryand101b]

Well, I already filled half my office with freeweights, dumbells, and a bench - and have started in there. Obv. I am not claiming extreme dedication (yet), but having the setup certainly can't hurt.

I hear this all the time from clients.

 

[rphash49]

With your diet and weight training experience a PH/DS will be pointless. All you will end up doing is screwing up your hormones for no gains.

 

[HolyRoller]

I placed the order for everything I laid out for my first cycle, except instead of AI cycle support & pct assist I got IL because amazon was having a huge sale. I presumed that they were basically the same thing, I hope that I was not wrong for doing so... As far as my nutrition goes I am still trying to push my cals, carbs, and protein intake higher, I have only been averaging about 2800 cals - 300 carbs - and 200 protein. I also never mentioned how I would preload, but was planning on just 1-2 weeks of cycle assist before I get started with the hdrol.

The biggest setback that I obviously have is lack of serious weight training, so even when everything arrives I am not starting until I am comfortable that I have a consistent schedule, a decent base, and a fully stocked food supply for this process. Perhaps I was a bit overzealous ordering everything already but I couldn't resist as this Friday was payday. I haven't been able to lift much for the last 72 hours because of these severe doms in my arms still, I have a hard time picking my daughter up to put her in her crib because my arms are still so sore and inflexible... I def. need a lot more work before I start with the PH's, if worst comes to worst I will chalk up the money spent as a lost and just go natty - but for now my plan remains the same, I am just setting it back a little bit.

Another thing that I could use help with is the dosing schedule for these supplements throughout the day. I have read 4hr min between the cycle assist and the halo. Also that I should start on the clomid the following day after the halo cycle ends. And finally, I just got done reading on another forum that people say to only take the halo on days when you train, and not on days off. This is contrary to all my other research. Thoughts? I am also extremely acne prone as it is, and have been for the last 10+ years, I will just try all the scrubs and washes that I can during the cycle. And is DAA good for my pct test booster?

Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to help me out with this, I appreciate everyone's feedback. Once I start, should I do a log?

 

[Matthersby]

You think a PH will make you blow up, it wont. You will see the "gains" melt right off you during pct if you can't gain naturally in the first place.

^exactly right^

 

[hide83]

calories too low

just a heads up your calotie intake looks pretty low. Thats probably about what you need just to maintain especially if your training hard. Id bump it to 3500 and you'd be suprised the gains you see. On a side not Im 30 and Ive been training since i was 15 and Im just now considering a ph. Have you tried a good quality creatine? Its likely goimg to be more effective than a test booster for you right now anyway.