My Good Friend Gyno

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So I got gyno from m1t...caught it and did 5 weeks of nolva and B6....the gyno went away so i stopped...right after i stopped it came back..so i ordered vitex waited a bit and started again..nolva at 6ml a day for the last 5 days with vitex and every day before i go to bed....the thing is...the gyno is gone all day....and then its back before i go to bed...this has to be something to do with the nolva wearing off since i take it before i go to bed....a tiny bit of liquid comes out if i press very hard but it seems to me that the only thing thats coming and going is my puffy nipples..there is no lump or never has been.....Any ideas would be great since I thought this would be fixed so i could do another cycle starting on the 10th! DAM.
 
Enigma76

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I'm no expert on this but I thought that nolva raises circulating serum estrogen concentrations, since it has a higher binding affinity for the estrogen receptor in the body. The body sees no estrogen, upregulates LH to kick out more test, upregulates aromatization to get more estrogen, etc etc until homeostasis is achieved.

Could it be that after being on nolva for so long, your circulating estrogen levels are so high that when the nolva metabolizes and is released from the receptor the gyno flares up? As more and more of the now-elevated estrogen binds?

Its just a theory as I dont know much about the physiology of nolva. Maybe a low dose AI would help? Like letro or something?
 

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I'm no expert on this but I thought that nolva raises circulating serum estrogen concentrations, since it has a higher binding affinity for the estrogen receptor in the body. The body sees no estrogen, upregulates LH to kick out more test, upregulates aromatization to get more estrogen, etc etc until homeostasis is achieved.

Could it be that after being on nolva for so long, your circulating estrogen levels are so high that when the nolva metabolizes and is released from the receptor the gyno flares up? As more and more of the now-elevated estrogen binds?

Its just a theory as I dont know much about the physiology of nolva. Maybe a low dose AI would help? Like letro or something?

ICIC thats a ledgit theory...Its just so strange that it comes back every night I might as well stop nolva cuz its just making it go away for a while.
 

THEBRAKES

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So I got gyno from m1t...caught it and did 5 weeks of nolva and B6....the gyno went away so i stopped...right after i stopped it came back..so i ordered vitex waited a bit and started again..nolva at 6ml a day for the last 5 days with vitex and every day before i go to bed....the thing is...the gyno is gone all day....and then its back before i go to bed...this has to be something to do with the nolva wearing off since i take it before i go to bed....a tiny bit of liquid comes out if i press very hard but it seems to me that the only thing thats coming and going is my puffy nipples..there is no lump or never has been.....Any ideas would be great since I thought this would be fixed so i could do another cycle starting on the 10th! DAM.
gyno from M1T??? tell me you arent suggesting that you got it ON cycle, because that's next to impossible.

you've got a liquid coming out of your nips if you press hard? search for "prolactin gyno" and see what you come up with.

sounds like you are rebounding from too-high doses of nolva. this is relatively common, even moreso with overdoses of letro or dex. why dont you split the dose, like every 12 hours? then taper down responsibly to teach your body to level its hormones.
 
ryansm

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Nolva has a half life of like 12 hours, so I highly doubt that it's losing efficacy.
 
pestis

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So I got gyno from m1t...caught it and did 5 weeks of nolva and B6....the gyno went away so i stopped...right after i stopped it came back..so i ordered vitex waited a bit and started again..nolva at 6ml a day for the last 5 days with vitex and every day before i go to bed....the thing is...the gyno is gone all day....and then its back before i go to bed...this has to be something to do with the nolva wearing off since i take it before i go to bed....a tiny bit of liquid comes out if i press very hard but it seems to me that the only thing thats coming and going is my puffy nipples..there is no lump or never has been.....Any ideas would be great since I thought this would be fixed so i could do another cycle starting on the 10th! DAM.
Nolva at 6ml/ed = 120mg/ed. anyone else see a problem with this??
 

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Nolva at 6ml/ed = 120mg/ed. anyone else see a problem with this??
yes and no. 6mL = 80mg actually. remember the liquid is tamox citrate.

if i got gyno symptoms, i'd probably go 60-80mg for the first 3-4 days, then taper down once i saw the symptoms disappear. BUT if i didnt have symptoms, i wouldnt dream of going up that high. you're just asking for rebound.

and nolva's half life is one of the main reasons i dose every 20mg every 12 hours when i'm doing PCT. that way the nolva in your bloodstream is never below 30mg (after the 1st 12 hours) or above 40mg (run the numbers if you're curious, and assume one dose doesnt last more than 2 days) dosing 40mg once a day can spike it to as much as 53mg 2 days in. i'm being a little finicky about this all but i like to exercise....caution.
 
bioman

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A tad high for sure though I'm having the exact same problem off of 60 ml/ed.
 

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gyno from M1T??? tell me you arent suggesting that you got it ON cycle, because that's next to impossible.

you've got a liquid coming out of your nips if you press hard? search for "prolactin gyno" and see what you come up with.

sounds like you are rebounding from too-high doses of nolva. this is relatively common, even moreso with overdoses of letro or dex. why dont you split the dose, like every 12 hours? then taper down responsibly to teach your body to level its hormones.

Everything you just said I know already. Please do not speak to me like I am some kind of newbie or rookie to PH's. I have been a member here for a good amount of time and know what prolactin gyno is. I just thought it would be easier to explain by letting everyone know how I got it. The gyno came before I took nolva and the day I stopped M1T. Anyone with any ideas or that has delt with this in the past I would love to here something.
 
Dwight Schrute

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First of all lactation is not necessary gyno. It means prolactin levels are very high but that doesn't not mean gladular formation has occurred.

Second, Nolvadex does not raise estrogen, but estrone, which is almost an inactive metabolite in men.

Third, if you HAVE formed glandular gyno you should continue Nolve until the lump dissapates. This does not mean it won't ever come back because it most likely will as you seem susceptible to the conidition.

Fourth, its half life has nothing to do with binding times. That is whats important and it is relatively long (cna't remember the number) so you dosing times are fine.

It sounds to me that your estrogen levels are high (this will raise prog/prolactin as well). I would try running Nolva at 20mg/day and maybe low dose AI for a good 4-6 weeks.
 
DmitryWI

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I thought nolva's half life is 36hrs not 12?:think:
 

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First of all lactation is not necessary gyno. It means prolactin levels are very high but that doesn't not mean gladular formation has occurred.

Second, Nolvadex does not raise estrogen, but estrone, which is almost an inactive metabolite in men.

Third, if you HAVE formed glandular gyno you should continue Nolve until the lump dissapates. This does not mean it won't ever come back because it most likely will as you seem susceptible to the conidition.

Fourth, its half life has nothing to do with binding times. That is whats important and it is relatively long (cna't remember the number) so you dosing times are fine.

It sounds to me that your estrogen levels are high (this will raise prog/prolactin as well). I would try running Nolva at 20mg/day and maybe low dose AI for a good 4-6 weeks.
I think that first statement might apply to this situation because I have NEVER had a lump at any point...really its just my nipples are very very puffy which causes it to look like gyno...Thanks for your help.
 

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There have been tons of people complaining of puffy nipples and clear fluid discharge from nipples from m1t. If you read around you will see more and more of this. I wont touch that stuff ever again. Alot of people have seen success by taking bromo, vit b6, or vitex. You may also want to read the **** m1t thread as dr. d talks about a new drug to help with high prolactin levels.
 

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There have been tons of people complaining of puffy nipples and clear fluid discharge from nipples from m1t. If you read around you will see more and more of this. I wont touch that stuff ever again. Alot of people have seen success by taking bromo, vit b6, or vitex. You may also want to read the **** m1t thread as dr. d talks about a new drug to help with high prolactin levels.
I have taken b6 and vitex and have read the **** m1t thread completly about 10 times in the past week. Thanks
 

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maybe its times to become a women? lol jk....ive always heard good things about bromo....Im sure you can find good info here or at avant forums as i spend more time reading there because i just joined here
 

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maybe its times to become a women? lol jk....ive always heard good things about bromo....Im sure you can find good info here or at avant forums as i spend more time reading there because i just joined here
.
 

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Everything you just said I know already. Please do not speak to me like I am some kind of newbie or rookie to PH's. I have been a member here for a good amount of time and know what prolactin gyno is. I just thought it would be easier to explain by letting everyone know how I got it. The gyno came before I took nolva and the day I stopped M1T. Anyone with any ideas or that has delt with this in the past I would love to here something.
FIRST - i didnt know bitch tits actually MADE you into a bitch, but modern science cant predict everything...

if you're so fucking knowledgeable, how come you didnt have nolva on hand and/or ready to do PCT??? stopping M1T clean with no anti-e? a sign of a true rookie, and i will treat you as such.

bobo - the last part of your post doesnt sound like a bad idea. even a more drawn-out tapering down (ie. to 10mg), considering his affinity for rebounding is so high. i think the problem here isnt the use of nolva, it's the ABUSE of it (ie taking it in strong doses, off and on - asking for rebound) gotta be careful with the AI's though...and if i ran one without being on-cycle i'd go REAL low dose, ie. <.25mg
 
Dwight Schrute

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bobo - the last part of your post doesnt sound like a bad idea. even a more drawn-out tapering down (ie. to 10mg), considering his affinity for rebounding is so high. i think the problem here isnt the use of nolva, it's the ABUSE of it (ie taking it in strong doses, off and on - asking for rebound) gotta be careful with the AI's though...and if i ran one without being on-cycle i'd go REAL low dose, ie. <.25mg
Nolva doens't cause a rebound. I don't understnad where anyone got that from. Its selectively anti-estrogenic and will not cause a rebound. The increase in estrone is a results of receptors being blocked while on it and its basically inactive anyway. The rebound will more likley caused by AI's or SI's than anything. Using those for long peroids of time is more negative than Nolvadex.
 

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I am a new here, but I would like to offer the advice of stop milking yourself. I am 30 years old and have went thru 3 pregnancies with my Ex-wife. My point is if you stop requesing milk from your nipples(squeezing them) they might stop producing milk. That is how women dry up after having a baby... They stop feeding. I am no expert, but just some advice. I doubt it will make the gyno go away, but squeezing them only will make them respond by producing more milk...ewww this subject is ickey :)
 

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FIRST - i didnt know bitch tits actually MADE you into a bitch, but modern science cant predict everything...

if you're so fucking knowledgeable, how come you didnt have nolva on hand and/or ready to do PCT??? stopping M1T clean with no anti-e? a sign of a true rookie, and i will treat you as such.

bobo - the last part of your post doesnt sound like a bad idea. even a more drawn-out tapering down (ie. to 10mg), considering his affinity for rebounding is so high. i think the problem here isnt the use of nolva, it's the ABUSE of it (ie taking it in strong doses, off and on - asking for rebound) gotta be careful with the AI's though...and if i ran one without being on-cycle i'd go REAL low dose, ie. <.25mg

You fucking idiot read my post again I started nolva right when I stopped M1T. I also stated this AGAIN in another post in this thread. Please do not add to this thread if you have nothing useful to say.
 

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Ya its def better to stop squeezing and aggravating the gland
 
bioman

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I had the same problem and was using about 60 mg ed of Nolva alongside roughly .3 mg of Letro. I upped the Letro to a full 2.5 mg dose and the symptoms disappeared.

I'll continue to dose letro at about .5-1.0 mg every three days and have already begun to taper down the Nolva.

Continued stimulation of the gland/area is NOT what you want to do. Leave it alone and starve it of estrogen.


Thanks for the reassurance Bobo.
 

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I had the same problem and was using about 60 mg ed of Nolva alongside roughly .3 mg of Letro. I upped the Letro to a full 2.5 mg dose and the symptoms disappeared.

I'll continue to dose letro at about .5-1.0 mg every three days and have already begun to taper down the Nolva.

Continued stimulation of the gland/area is NOT what you want to do. Leave it alone and starve it of estrogen.


Thanks for the reassurance Bobo.

Letro it is...thanks bioman
 
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AI like letro can generate a rebound in as little as 3 months (when used at max doses) Also, when your lactating, it's called progesterone gyno, because prolactin plays a strong roal in release and support of pregneneolone blood levels. Preg generally antagonized estrogen to allow for fertilization and pregnancy to be established, but they can work together too. Prog. is maintly concerned (in the breast) with the inner reproduntive tissue, like the nips and areolas. Estrogen is more concerned with duct proliferation thus increasing size for enhanced milk capacity. There is no rebound w/ SERM, but they seem to be less effective the more ofter you use them.
 
Dwight Schrute

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Prolactin stimulates epithelial cell proliferation only in the presence of estrogen and enhances lobulo-alveolar differentiation only with concomitant progesterone.

Chapter 14 - Ronald S. Swerdloff, MD, Jason Ng, MD, and Gladys E. Palomeno, MD,
March 1, 2004
 

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There is no rebound w/ SERM, but they seem to be less effective the more ofter you use them.
really, no rebound with SERM?? i believe you well enough, but it seems counterintuitive....high doses of a substances that all but negates the estrogen in your body, then nothing - seems like a recipe for rebound.

how do you reckon rebel has his supposed nightly bout with gyno? just diminished effectivity as the drug runs its course?
 

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really, no rebound with SERM?? i believe you well enough, but it seems counterintuitive....high doses of a substances that all but negates the estrogen in your body, then nothing - seems like a recipe for rebound.

how do you reckon rebel has his supposed nightly bout with gyno? just diminished effectivity as the drug runs its course?
Well nolva doesn't negate estrogen at all...it simply has a higher affinity for certain receptors in the body...it has no effect on the actual levels of estrogen.

The night time thing is odd, but I have read a few studies where gyno that was treated with tamox, came back after cessation. Maybe try raloxifen when you get a chance...
 
Dwight Schrute

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really, no rebound with SERM?? i believe you well enough, but it seems counterintuitive....high doses of a substances that all but negates the estrogen in your body, then nothing - seems like a recipe for rebound.

how do you reckon rebel has his supposed nightly bout with gyno? just diminished effectivity as the drug runs its course?
Nolvadex doens't negate estrogen. Its selectively blocks it at certain areas.

I said this a few posts back.
 

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Nolvadex doens't negate estrogen. Its selectively blocks it at certain areas.

I said this a few posts back.
"blocks", "negates" - what's the difference? just words used to describe an interaction that we are all familiar with.

i know what nolva does, kids. "negates" was selected as a lay-term to approximate the effects.

if your football team has a defensive line that renders the running game ineffective - the sports analysts could think of a thousand synonyms for the effect....

should call this board "semanticminds"
 

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Dont post on my thread anymore you say nothing useful.
aww i cant play at your house anymore titty boy? sorry, it's a public forum. if you had conducted yourself in a less-than-petulant manner up to this point i might honor your request.
 
Dwight Schrute

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"blocks", "negates" - what's the difference? just words used to describe an interaction that we are all familiar with.

i know what nolva does, kids. "negates" was selected as a lay-term to approximate the effects.

if your football team has a defensive line that renders the running game ineffective - the sports analysts could think of a thousand synonyms for the effect....

should call this board "semanticminds"

There is a big difference and it shows that you do NOT understand how these drugs work.

Maybe if you actually knew the difference between an AI and a SERM you would understand the "semantics".

There is a big difference between negating estrogen, as in eliminating it as an AI would do, or blocking the estrogenic effects (while increasing estrone which you clearly do not know), as a SERM does.

Its not our fault you do not like the semantics but as far as scientific discussion goes, the board tends to like the discussions to be specific and precises. That is the nature of this board and it will continue to be that way. If you don't like it, you don't have to be here.
 
Dwight Schrute

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aww i cant play at your house anymore titty boy? sorry, it's a public forum. if you had conducted yourself in a less-than-petulant manner up to this point i might honor your request.
Actually its not a public forum. Its privately owned and if you continue with your childish insults you can leave.
 
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