Epi/Stano or SD/Stano or neither? Have concerns.

[TruthWalker]

Ok guys need some advice. I’d like to run another cycle, but I have some concerns. Here’s the background. Stats are 28 years old, 6’0 175 12% bf. Been training for 3 years. I’ve run a number of cycles in the past, including SD solo, SD/stano, LMG/DMZ/Stano, SD/T-var/Stano. The problem I have is I had to cut my last cycle I ran (SD/Tvar/Stano) short because I started having paranoid/obsessive thoughts, intense jealousy, anxiety, and just general insecurities. I’ve never had that before, with or without cycling. I stopped the cycle about 12 days in and everything went back to normal within a week. Did 2 weeks of Nolva PCT bridged with 2 weeks of Exemestane. My question is do you think it was the Tren that may have caused the problems? Was also dosing Exemestane 25mg EOD and Caber .5mg EOD as well. I am wanting to run another cycle with the goal of losing 1-3% bf and gaining 7-10lbs of muscle. Here are the options I was thinking of, please let me know what you think.

Option 1: Epi/Stano
Epi: 40/40/40/40/40/40
Stano: 800/800/800/800/800/800

On Cycle Support:
CEL Cycle Assist
Fish Oil
Super Cissus

PCT:
Nolva: 20/20/10/10
Anabeta Elite: 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4
Erase Pro: 0/0/1/1/1/1/1/1
Intimidate: 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1


Option 2: SD/Stano
SD: 10/10/10/10/10/10
Stano: 800/800/800/800/800/800

On Cycle Support:
CEL Cycle Assist
Fish Oil
Super Cissus

PCT:
Nolva: 20/20/10/10
Anabeta Elite: 4/4/4/4/4/4/4/4
Erase Pro: 0/0/1/1/1/1/1/1
Intimidate: 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1

I have Exemestane and Caber on hand as well if needed. I have never run Epi before so not sure what to expect. I will be eating maintenance calories (~3000 kcals). Diet is clean. What are your thoughts? Do you think it’s a possibility I may experience the negative thinking with either of these cycles? Would either one be more likely to cause that than the other? Which one would be better for my goals? Do you have any other cycle suggestions? Open to all quality advice! Thanks for all your input guys.

 

[Jetley]

A guy posted a similar thread a few days ago called "July PH Cycle"

After reading through it, it looks like quite a few people on this board are running this cycle (including me):
Superdrol- 10/10/10/10/10/10
Stanodrol- 800/800/1000/1000/1000/1000/1200/1200

I've never had crazy thoughts while on SD/Stano and I am prone to craziness so I'm not sure what happened there for you. Your PCT and on cycle support look good.

 

[TruthWalker]

A guy posted a similar thread a few days ago called "July PH Cycle"

After reading through it, it looks like quite a few people on this board are running this cycle (including me):
Superdrol- 10/10/10/10/10/10
Stanodrol- 800/800/1000/1000/1000/1000/1200/1200

I've never had crazy thoughts while on SD/Stano and I am prone to craziness so I'm not sure what happened there for you. Your PCT and on cycle support look good.

Awesome I will look at that thread. Thanks for the input! I think the Tren happened to me, so hopefully taking that out will eliminate the problem. If I run SD I could afford an extra bottle of stano to ramp it up and run the stano at those doses. So you think SD would be a better option than the Epi? What differences would there be in terms of results if I ran the SD instead of the Epi?

 

[Jetley]

From personal experience, both SD and Epistane are awesome. Gains on SD tend to be more explosive and profound. SD also has harsher negative side effects and is more toxic than Epi. Epistane tends to give really high quality, lean gains but the gains are not as dramatic as they are on SD. A lot of people do an SD bridge into Epi.

I picked SD over Epi for mine because I find that I don't get many side effects from it and I like the hardness/bulk my muscles get from it. At 10 mg a day it's mild enough that I can run it for 6 weeks to really solidify gains. The stano stacked with it is non-methylated and REALLY helps with the lethargy I feel when I am on SD. Seriously, SD makes me lazy as all hell. I want to keep the majority of what i put on during the cycle.

Again, both SD and Epi are great. Which one you pick is usually a personal choice.

 

[TruthWalker]

I'm kinda torn. Ahhhhh. I think I may go with SD simply because I've got a lot of experience with it and I am familiar with how I respond (extremely well, no sides except lethargy like you said) and Epi is kind of an unknown since I've never used it before. The only thing I'm unsure of is how much I can lean out using the SD vs. Epi. That part is more important to me; not looking to bulk up a lot. 10lbs weight gain max.

 

[Jetley]

SD is great for both leaning and bulking. It all depends on your diet while on it.

 

[TruthWalker]

Looks like SD it is then! Thanks Jetley

 

[TruthWalker]

Actually I changed my mind. Decided to go with Epi. Should be able to see good results, and I don't need to start seeing them in the first 10 days like with SD...Starting cycle july 8. Cheers!

 

[murk01]

Sd at 10x6 seems to produce leaner gains not as much bloat. Not as drastic. .. but good.
I would drop the stano.. unless u already bought it. Or u had trouble with the sides from SD....btw... 2-3 yams a day help me deal with lethargy. .. most lethargy is low carbs... speaking personal experience

 

[TruthWalker]

Haven't made any purchases yet. Still wavering. If I did decide to run SD, you think CEL M-drol would still be ok with an exp of 06/2013? LGI SD-10 is the other option, but the price is significantly higher for LGI.

 

[fueledpassion]

yeah my #1 problem with SD is that I crave carbs and I dislike protein. Kinda pointless for me to ever use it as a cutter.

I know you can "cut" on SD, but honestly, use SD at what its good at, which is bulking.

 

[fueledpassion]

from experience, M-Drol was not as potent and will certainly be older.

 

[TruthWalker]

yeah my #1 problem with SD is that I crave carbs and I dislike protein. Kinda pointless for me to ever use it as a cutter.

I know you can "cut" on SD, but honestly, use SD at what its good at, which is bulking.

Fair enough! Thanks for the advice. Gonna stick with my plan to go with Epi. Would 7-10lbs of muscle and a 2% drop in body fat be achievable as long as my diet is right on point? I mean, I'd honestly be happy with 5lbs of muscle and a 2% drop.

 

[fueledpassion]

I'm sure a few lbs of muscle is possible but the only way to truly tell that is to have very accurate body measurements before and after. A DEXA scan would do best if you could afford it.

Anyways, if you ask me, I'd just be happy with losing 3% body fat while not losing any muscle mass. To me a cut that stripped fat while not touching the muscle is excellent. 'Recomping' is a goal that most talk about acheiving but rarely do people ever actually acheive both cutting and lean mass bulking at the same time. If you were taking that approach to "build muscle and lose fat", you'd have to eat in a caloric surplus, run T3 with your Epi, and eat foods that ramp up your metabolism such as tons of good carbs and loads of protein. Fat intake would have to stay at a normal level since it doesn't contribute to TEF as well as carbs and proteins.

Honestly, the part about your cycle that sounds impossible isn't whether or not you can cut or bulk with any given compound, but doing both may be difficult.

 

[TruthWalker]

I'm sure a few lbs of muscle is possible but the only way to truly tell that is to have very accurate body measurements before and after. A DEXA scan would do best if you could afford it.

Anyways, if you ask me, I'd just be happy with losing 3% body fat while not losing any muscle mass. To me a cut that stripped fat while not touching the muscle is excellent. 'Recomping' is a goal that most talk about acheiving but rarely do people ever actually acheive both cutting and lean mass bulking at the same time. If you were taking that approach to "build muscle and lose fat", you'd have to eat in a caloric surplus, run T3 with your Epi, and eat foods that ramp up your metabolism such as tons of good carbs and loads of protein. Fat intake would have to stay at a normal level since it doesn't contribute to TEF as well as carbs and proteins.

Honestly, the part about your cycle that sounds impossible isn't whether or not you can cut or bulk with any given compound, but doing both may be difficult.

Then perhaps I should readjust my goals to be possible, and shoot for 3% fat loss while maintaining muscle mass It'd probably look better on me than gaining much more muscle anyway, I'd rather not be disproportionate! Thanks very much for your input. Will let you all know how the cycle goes.

 

[murk01]

yeah my #1 problem with SD is that I crave carbs and I dislike protein. Kinda pointless for me to ever use it as a cutter.

I know you can "cut" on SD, but honestly, use SD at what its good at, which is bulking.

True.... sd is supposed to be good on a cut. But im sure it would be a ruff cycle. Probably draging a$$ the entire cycle.

Epi...with a tight diet and good routine can be impressive. just keep the protien real high. I never tried it. But smashing ur fat and moderate high carbs ; plus under cal... prolly good.

 

[murk01]

Also.. epi is underrated. My experience is its potent as fuk. U cant compare sd and epi. Diff componds that are really good at there job.
I tried a bridge epi/sd had to cut it short but had great gains. 3 week pct still making gains. And recovery seems to be going better then sd solo. 181pre cycle 203lb now

Also I think the improvements in my diet and routine have played a huge role this time around

 

[fueledpassion]

I've been training bodybuilding style for quite some time now, becoming polished in my poses and routines, and I have done 1 show and plan to do another next year if I get around to hitting my mass goals. I can tell you one thing for certain, I'd take 150lbs @ 5% BF over 160lbs @ 9% any day of the week. granted, I'm a short fella so 150lbs doesn't look too shabby on me.

With that in mind, if u cut up enough over the course of the cycle while retaining your muscle mass, you'll absolutely love the results over possibly gaining a lb or two of muscle while losing a lb or two of fat. Pick northbound or southbound and go that direction with all you have!

 

[TruthWalker]

Southbound it is for now! I think my fiance would appreciate me reducing my bodyfat by 3% and maintaining muscle mass rather than getting bigger. This is all prep for my wedding (Read: honeymoon) in mid-November btw. So I'm thinking starting on July 8th I'll do Epi/Stano for 6 weeks, with 2 extra weeks of stano, followed by 4 weeks of pct. That will take me to September 30th. Then I plan on maybe doing another 4 weeks of Anabeta Elite/Erase Pro/Intimidate the 4 weeks before the wedding. I think that should get me looking pretty fantastic for the honeymoon. Super stoked about the Epi now!

 

[tinytony]

Too bad you're paranoid about Tvar. That stuff leans me out so fast. I think I'm going to do SD and finish out with Tvar to solidify my gains and name a few more. May run transdermal Trest with it. Have Ment and may just use that instead

 

[TruthWalker]

Too bad you're paranoid about Tvar. That stuff leans me out so fast. I think I'm going to do SD and finish out with Tvar to solidify my gains and name a few more. May run transdermal Trest with it. Have Ment and may just use that instead

I ran one complete cycle with tvar stano and sd. Best stack I'd ever run, but I was single so I didn't notice the obsessive thoughts. Can't risk it now that I have a fiancé...

 

[tinytony]

I ran one complete cycle with tvar stano and sd. Best stack I'd ever run, but I was single so I didn't notice the obsessive thoughts. Can't risk it now that I have a fiancé...

Sounds like the most androgenic stack too eh? Lol

 

[TruthWalker]

So... Decided I am going to run 4 weeks of just Anabeta elite, erase pro, and intimidate and do this cycle starting at the beginning of September. I think that way the results will be more dramatic for the honeymoon. Will update in september!

 

[TruthWalker]

I take it back... The fiancé ok'd the stano/epistane cycle so it's off to the races I go! Running the cycle as determined in the 1st post.

 

[nEuT]

Just finished a 5 week epi/stano cycle and LOVED it. we'll see how much i'll keep in PCT but I gained 12 pounds and leaned up a bit.

enjoy and be safe!

 

[TruthWalker]

Just finished a 5 week epi/stano cycle and LOVED it. we'll see how much i'll keep in PCT but I gained 12 pounds and leaned up a bit.

enjoy and be safe!

Good to hear! What dosages were you running, and what were your macros/goals? I am going for a cut, but if I gain a few lbs of muscle of course I won't complain. Also, did you notice any sides at all? Due to the stano most likely eliminating lethargy and low libido, I'm primarily concerned about mood swings and such...but if they are positive mood swings, that would be fine with me haha. Thanks!

 

[fueledpassion]

Since honeymoon is coming, I highly advise a well-thought out PCT.

A PCT that brings increased libido would be on order, since many times the first few weeks into PCT are usually a low point for sex drive.

I advise having:

-Clomid
-DAA
-AI (Whichever you prefer)
-Cialis (THIS IS A MUST) or you can get Jack-Rabbits (Combo of Cia+Via)
-Cortisol Control (This TOO is a must)

 

[TruthWalker]

Since honeymoon is coming, I highly advise a well-thought out PCT.

A PCT that brings increased libido would be on order, since many times the first few weeks into PCT are usually a low point for sex drive.

I advise having:

-Clomid
-DAA
-AI (Whichever you prefer)
-Cialis (THIS IS A MUST) or you can get Jack-Rabbits (Combo of Cia+Via)
-Cortisol Control (This TOO is a must)

So here is my full cycle and pct schedule. Starting July 8, will run Epi at 40mg and Stano at 800mg for 6 weeks, ending on August 19. My PCT will consist of:

Nolva: 40/40/20/20/0/0 (caps are dosed at 20mg)
Anabeta Elite: 4/4/4/4/4/4
Erase Pro: 0/0/1/1/1/1
Intimidate: 1/1/1/1/1/1

This will bring me to September 16 (2 months before my wedding date). I will take the following 4 weeks off from everything but staple supps, and then from October 14 - November 11 I will run another cycle of ABE/EP/Intimidate. I've never run Clomid, and don't really want to this time either because I've read it can make you moody, and other than the Epi, I'd rather not mess with anything I don't have previous experience with. Thoughts?

 

[fueledpassion]

You'll be fine with that I'm sure.

What are your T levels now? Is your libido doing well? If I was 100% on libido and had T-level within a solid, healthy range (say 500+), then I'd go for the cycle. Make it short. Make it effective. Otherwise, I wouldn't do the cycle since I'd be getting married relatively soon after.

Granted, I practiced abstinence until I got married. So everyone is different I guess.

 

[TruthWalker]

You'll be fine with that I'm sure.

What are your T levels now? Is your libido doing well? If I was 100% on libido and had T-level within a solid, healthy range (say 500+), then I'd go for the cycle. Make it short. Make it effective. Otherwise, I wouldn't do the cycle since I'd be getting married relatively soon after.

Granted, I practiced abstinence until I got married. So everyone is different I guess.

My libido is ridiculously high, which is not necessarily good, since my fiancé and I are waiting until marriage as well lol. Neither of us waited in the past, but we both want to wait for each other this time around. I'm not sure what my exact T-levels are, but I definitely don't think I am lacking in that regard. I got bloodwork done for other reasons recently, and they said everything was in the normal range. Not sure if it included test numbers though.

 

[jack_black]

Are you saying you have never banged your fiance? You probably need to rethink that. Crazee!

 

[TruthWalker]

Are you saying you have never banged your fiance? You probably need to rethink that. Crazee!

I don't think I need to rethink it...and regardless, our self control has slipped up a few times, and from those instances I know I have absolutely no doubts in that department. But we're trying to wait from here on out.

 

[FireRescue]

It seems some have said the Stano is not worth it. What would be the advantage of Stano? I'll admit its a compound I now very little about.

 

[Jericoe]

Epi sucks

go with SD

SD is the only pr/ds that is worth the hassle.

 

[nEuT]

I ran
epistane at 30/40/40/50/50 .
Stano at 600/600/600/800/800
I was bulking even tho epistane is a "cutting" steroid. I wanted to retain all gains I made. Didn't really count calories as i've been bulking for football so I kind of know how much I need to eat to gain weight. I literally had every side...back pumps which taurine fixed, loss of libido, and lethargy which stano fixed. I had some shedding from stano I think, and a gyno flare up which stopped as soon as I started clomid. I didn't notice my mood at all though.

went from 208-220 and I look leaner than before SO i want to *hope* that it's essentially pure lbm

 

[TruthWalker]

Epi sucks

go with SD

SD is the only pr/ds that is worth the hassle.

Can't tell if troll or just an idiot. If you're a troll, kindly remove yourself from my thread. If you're an idiot, please go do some research and get some experience before posting. Thanks.

 

[TruthWalker]

I ran
epistane at 30/40/40/50/50 .
Stano at 600/600/600/800/800
I was bulking even tho epistane is a "cutting" steroid. I wanted to retain all gains I made. Didn't really count calories as i've been bulking for football so I kind of know how much I need to eat to gain weight. I literally had every side...back pumps which taurine fixed, loss of libido, and lethargy which stano fixed. I had some shedding from stano I think, and a gyno flare up which stopped as soon as I started clomid. I didn't notice my mood at all though.

went from 208-220 and I look leaner than before SO i want to *hope* that it's essentially pure lbm

Awesome, thank you for your post! Good to know that it seems to be very effective for lean mass gains as well as leaning out. How much did you keep after PCT?

Also - fire rescue - stano for me will be used to counter any lethargy I might experience. Libido is a negligible impact for me right now, so I'm ok with it or without it for the time being. I know with SD I get terrible lethargy, and I don't want to take that chance with Epi. Also, stano has a great hardening effect on my muscles.

 

[johnnybeegood]

I don't think I need to rethink it...and regardless, our self control has slipped up a few times, and from those instances I know I have absolutely no doubts in that department. But we're trying to wait from here on out.

that's pretty cool that you are waiting. i commend you and congratulations on your engagement.

 

[nEuT]

I'm on day 5 of PCT and am still weighing 220...so i dont want to be premature and say i've kept everything. BUT epi is a very dry compound and most users keep a large portion of gains.

I pr'd today btw, hit 335 for 5 on bench, last tuesday I hit 4. so it's looking good that i'll keep most gains

 

[FireRescue]

Also - fire rescue - stano for me will be used to counter any lethargy I might experience. Libido is a negligible impact for me right now, so I'm ok with it or without it for the time being. I know with SD I get terrible lethargy, and I don't want to take that chance with Epi. Also, stano has a great hardening effect on my muscles.

Thanks for the info. I will look more into Stano for keeping lethargy at bay.

 

[TruthWalker]

Today is day 3 of Epi @ 40mg and Stano @ 800mg. Excited to see where the rest of the cycle goes! Started cycle at 180lbs. Was eating anywhere from 3500-4000 calories a day before starting the cycle, have gradually cut it down to a fairly strict 2700. Maintenance cals for me would be 2962 using my BMR + Harris Benedict so Im thinking I should see decent results, especially once the epi kicks in in a couple of weeks.

 

[TruthWalker]

So, on day 3 of my cycle I was an idiot and hurt my shoulder by trying to go too heavy. Haven't worked out since last Friday, but did not stop the cycle because A) I wouldn't be able to restart it in time before the wedding and B) I am hoping my shoulder will be healed enough by next week to get back into at least a light workout routine. Blah.

 

[FireRescue]

So, on day 3 of my cycle I was an idiot and hurt my shoulder by trying to go too heavy. Haven't worked out since last Friday, but did not stop the cycle because A) I wouldn't be able to restart it in time before the wedding and B) I am hoping my shoulder will be healed enough by next week to get back into at least a light workout routine. Blah.

I would be hitting legs at least 2x per week.

 

[TruthWalker]

I would be hitting legs at least 2x per week.

Yeah, I haven't though. Just been trying to not do much of anything with it that involves lifting anything heavy. Its feeling better...actually haven't taken any advil at all today, which is the first day ive been able to do that since it happened. Gonna continue to just rest until Monday, and then ease back in on Monday with a light lifting routine and heavier on the cardio. Even without working out, my muscles are fuller and vascularity is improving. Down 1.5lbs too, woohoo!

 

[TruthWalker]

Back on track as of yesterday...Did chest/tris. Shoulder was fine on Bench and Incline, had to skip decline though. Strength actually seemed to be up a bit, but I'm not taking any chances. Gonna take it easy for the next two weeks and be very very careful on shoulder days. Upping my cardio in both intensity and volume. Epi should be kicking in any day now

 

[fueledpassion]

Back on track as of yesterday...Did chest/tris. Shoulder was fine on Bench and Incline, had to skip decline though. Strength actually seemed to be up a bit, but I'm not taking any chances. Gonna take it easy for the next two weeks and be very very careful on shoulder days. Upping my cardio in both intensity and volume. Epi should be kicking in any day now

That's pretty much what I said every day right up to the end of my cycle of Epi, twice.

I hate that it is the most inconsistent steroid to ever hit the market because it really is an extreme hit or miss. Lots of people love it, however I had to take 50mg/day just to feel it.

 

[TruthWalker]

Oh I'm fairly confident I'll respond well to it. At least, I'm optimistic about it. Today is only day 15, and considering I took off days 6-14 completely from working out, it may already have kicked in and I just haven't been able to tell. Today is leg day so if its kicked in already, I'll be able to tell. But I've heard it doesn't kick in until week 3, so I'm not too worried. Yet.

 

[FederalLE]

A guy posted a similar thread a few days ago called "July PH Cycle"

After reading through it, it looks like quite a few people on this board are running this cycle (including me):
Superdrol- 10/10/10/10/10/10
Stanodrol- 800/800/1000/1000/1000/1000/1200/1200

I've never had crazy thoughts while on SD/Stano and I am prone to craziness so I'm not sure what happened there for you. Your PCT and on cycle support look good.

Did you start your PCT after SD or after stano? Im running this exact cycle in a month and trying to figure out my pct schedule.

 

[rphash49]

Did you start your PCT after SD or after stano? Im running this exact cycle in a month and trying to figure out my pct schedule.

Not sure what he did but you should wait till you are done with stano based on the stack above

 

[Jetley]

Rphash is right. Start it after the stano. I'm already a week into my pct. Not lost any strength gains yet.