Ouch- AAS Users Check This Out
- 02-23-2003, 06:11 PM
Ouch- AAS Users Checl This Out
Big Red posted this, thought you guys might enjoy the slap in the face also.....
Steroids, Supplements and the Decline of True Physical Culture
By Sean Toohey
Posted on NaturalStrength.com on May 16, 1999
A few months ago, there was a long discussion on one of the internet bodybuilding boards about the use of anabolic steroids. Most people, on reading that opening sentence are thinking, "So? That ain't a surprise!" They are right. It isn't a surprise. And that is a shame. The use of anabolic steroids has virtually destroyed what was once the greatest sport on earth! I'm talking about lifting weights here... not "bodybuilding" per se. Call the whole endeavor, "physical culture" and you are on the right track.
Way back when men decided that they wished to be bigger and stronger, the advice was relatively simple to get. The difficulty in learning the craft of physical culture wasn't so much in getting good advice as it was in finding someone who knew what lifting weights was! There wasn't this whole infrastructure of nonsense that there is today, and the crazy advice wasn't plastered on four out of five magazines on every newsstand. If someone went to a gym, and that gym happened to contain a few bodybuilders, the advice was readily available... whether the goal was to gain or lose weight. More importantly, the advice worked. Today, you can go just about any place in the world and find a gym. A gym full of pumpers and toners - and guys that take anabolic steroids because without them, they don't grow muscles.
I had a conversation with a 'roid boy once. Basically, I explained that not only were steroids unnecessary but they were something that was ruining the sport. He asked me to explain myself. I explained that you could get as big as you wished just by lifting properly and eating correctly. After all, that is what the old-timers did! He laughed in my face and said that no old timer would win contests today! I mentioned that Doug Hepburn would blow most guys out of the water with his strength feats. He wouldn't hear a word of it. But he had struck a chord and I realized that the truth behind much of what we are experiencing today (having to do with performance enhancement) was linked directly to the almighty dollar.
Athletes are marketable products. They are marketed for one reason only - they win medals or games, and that makes money. Nobody wants to pay money to see a mediocre performance, and advertisers certainly will not pay top dollar to attach their names to a loser. Unfortunately, with performance enhancing drugs, many athletes become losers when they refuse to start taking them. The end result? The athlete feels that he or she has no other option but to start using.
One of the major issues directly linked to steroid use is food supplementation. Not that long ago, Weider was taken to court over his claim that his Anabolic Mega Packs (nothing more than vitamins) were as potent as anabolic steroids. The link in this situation is quite clear... promise the results of drugs, without having to use. The problem once again, is that the use of drugs is driving a sale. More specifically in this case, it is the promise of the benefits of drugs without the terrible side-effects.
The horrific appearance of today's bodybuilder is freakishly absurd. In every single glossy magazine about bodybuilding, you are looking at people who's grossly unnatural development is a result of DRUGS, not training. The training that these guys do is so silly that most of the bodybuilders would grow better just leaving it out altogether. Those that actually DO train properly grow to such proportions that it renders them freaks for life, and takes a dastardly toll on their health. Read that again... most professional bodybuilders are actually so idiotic about their training, that it is a disadvantage. The drugs they take are more than enough to make up the difference!
Now, when a neophyte lifter tries to learn about lifting, where is the most readily available source of information? Well, either the largest guy in his gym (who is genetically blessed, using drugs, or both) or from the magazines. What does he learn? He learns that he must "pump up" performing enormous amounts of useless work. The incredible volume of this information is such that even a well founded and clear argument against such training tactics will fall on deaf ears. You can actually explain the sound and reasonable principles behind lifting weights to a pumper, and they will admit that it makes sense... but they will continue to "blast," "bomb," and "blitz" their way to "behemoth biceps." All according to the muscle comic books. Most of the young guys fail on routines like this. How bad is it? If one out of a hundred new gym members keeps their membership for more than two years I'd be surprised.
So why is the turnover so high? The information is BAD, plain and simple. But, you see, you don't need good information to grow muscles if you are taking enough drugs to cure the muscle wasting that is caused by having a nuclear warhead detonate right next to you! You just need the drugs. It is absolutely disgusting. AND, it is getting worse.
Those guys that refuse to take drugs can now take garbage that is close enough to a steroid that it only needs one slight change to make it one. People like Mark McGwire are touted as heroes even after publicly admitting to using "pro-hormones" to enhance their athleticism. What kind of message is THAT sending to kids? Sales of compounds that are not just useless, but dangerous is easy to do! So called, "fat burners" contain stimulants that have killed people who have an unknown sensitivity to them. It is beyond me why ANYONE would bother.
Basically, things have now gone over the edge. To the new trainees, you are either "toning" or you are a bodybuilder. And if you are a bodybuilder it is commonly believed that you must use both food supplements and drugs! The funny thing is, only in the last few years have bodybuilders become large to the point that they exceed what is capable without drugs. They are also dying in numbers that are far too high for their demographic. I have heard kids say, "I need to buff up man, I need some juice!" Believe me, they weren't talking about orange juice.
So what do you do? Well, for one you begin to train honestly. You do not succumb to the temptation offered by the false-fix of drugs. It isn't even a fast fix. Squatting hard, eating big and dieting off the fat will get you in shape faster than any super-program that requires drugs to make it work. Think of it this way. The muscle magazines say that a 10 pound gain of lean tissue per year is a phenomenal amount of progress for a bodybuilder (assumed to be using drugs). Well, by following a 20 rep breathing squat program, Dr. Randall Strossen put on 30 pounds of muscle in six weeks! Unfortunately for the world at large, supplement companies have been so dishonest that the public has been conditioned not to believe outrageous claims... even though in this case they are true!
And make no mistake! The companies that are selling supplements are directly linked to the drug industry. The supplements today are actually advertised as mimicking steroid-like gains! Consider this fact as well - it is not in the best interest of a bodybuilding product manufacturer for you to make gains. If you did, you would cease to purchase the miracle supplement that got you there. And if you don't take the supplement at all, but opt for steroids, the company will still gladly pay you to endorse the product.
How closely linked are these "bodybuilding" companies with other sports? Well, EAS has members of the National Football League endorsing products, as many other supplement companies do. And EAS is one of the companies that produces and distributes "pro-hormones" which are nothing more than "almost steroids." Essentially, the industry that claims to be providing instruction on strength, health, and well being, is pushing a series of events that are leading the world to either get no gains at all, take risky drug-like supplements, or opt for the drugs themselves. And the bottom line here is that the walking advertisements of this industry aren't even bothering with the first two options. THEY just shoot up syringes full of anabolic agents to the tune of nearly $50,000.00 per month and PRESTO! Instant gains.
So what kind of gains are these guys getting by doing the drugs? Are they that much better than the gains of the pre-drug, golden era of physical culture? No. They aren't. Bodybuilders today are ugly freaks. They looknothing like the well developed, incredibly strong people from the early years of this sport. Funny thing... the measurements haven't changed all that much. It is the appearance that is altered so significantly. Bloated, drug-engorged muscle is horrifying to look at, weak, and freakish. Weak? Yes weak! The lifter's of old could destroy today's crop of lifters in a contest! How is this possible? Let me explain...
Men from the golden age of strength didn't bother with drugs. They didn't bother will "isolation" work and "pumping up." They lifted weights in such a manner that they built incredible physical strength... and not just the ability to demonstrate strength either! They actually improved their body's capacity to tolerate exercise by working such things as their lungs, connective tissue, and stabilizing muscles. They applied themselves diligently and progressively... and the end result was a body that would not get injured, would not soften up and lose size if exercise was dropped for a few weeks, and they lived productive and healthy lives. Compare that with today's crop of athletes (if you can call them that). Today you have nothing but injuries, high blood pressure, weak stabilizers, tendon and ligament problems, heart conditions and early deaths. And that is among a group of people that are supposed to represent the HEALTHY benefits of training with weights!
Andre said, "Image is everything." Andre was wrong. The image of the drug bloated monster, the image of the lighting fast athlete, the image of the greatest football player, or the fastest runner - these things are often just fakes. REALITY is everything. And the reality is that you can do it without drugs. You can be bigger, stronger, faster and live longer and healthier without drugs. You can break records without drugs. You can make the industry thrive again. It is up to everyone on an individual level. And it is a choice you must make - to stay clean, and stay strong.
Your children are counting on you.
- 02-23-2003, 06:54 PM
02-23-2003, 07:00 PM
Okay I don't remember EAS marketing prohormones.. did they?How closely linked are these "bodybuilding" companies with other sports? Well, EAS has members of the National Football League endorsing products, as many other supplement companies do. And EAS is one of the companies that produces and distributes "pro-hormones" which are nothing more than "almost steroids." Essentially, the industry that claims to be providing instruction on strength, health, and well being, is pushing a series of events that are leading the world to either get no gains at all, take risky drug-like supplements, or opt for the drugs themselves. And the bottom line here is that the walking advertisements of this industry aren't even bothering with the first two options. THEY just shoot up syringes full of anabolic agents to the tune of nearly $50,000.00 per month and PRESTO! Instant gains.
Also, call me strange but does it seem like this guy is alittle bitter or is it just me.
02-23-2003, 07:30 PM
Sounds like something layne would write.....
-Saving random peoples' nuts, one pair at at time... PCT info:
-Are you really ready for a cycle? Read this link and be honest:
*I am not a medical expert, my opinions are not professional, and I strongly suggest doing research of your own.*
02-23-2003, 07:33 PM
andro-6 anyone? that was eas's ph..all it was andro trib and one other ingredient that escapes me..they only sold it for a year or so
02-23-2003, 10:09 PM
Wojo: your location, lol. just realized.
I was wonderin, who taught you the basics of lifting? When I started, the my highschool gym trainer used to compete in the 70s, all natural, no PH. Barely took amino acids. His physique looked like any non-drug contestant today, only he didn't have PH either. He taught me old school, the bread and butter of chest delts lats and traps. I can't ever change to fancy routines now, but the bread and butter never let me go hungry.
02-23-2003, 10:58 PM
Yeah, the guy seems abit bitter.. Then again, he's probably a professional cardio monkey that got beat up for using his cellphone at the gym...Originally posted by Matthew D
Okay I don't remember EAS marketing prohormones.. did they?
Also, call me strange but does it seem like this guy is alittle bitter or is it just me.
EAS had a product called Andro 6 back in the day, actually one of the first andros to be banned by GNC.. They stopped making it when Bill Phillips left, and the test came back that Flex published... It was crappier than most andro/tribulus/dhea products, and under-dosed..
02-23-2003, 11:36 PM
02-23-2003, 11:47 PM
don't really see the guy's point. things are the way they are, they started moving in this direction decades ago, so what's the problem? there are plenty of arenas to display the results of natural hard work right? and really, pick up your average 'physical' magazine (not flex, etc) and you'll see definitely more normal looking individuals
02-24-2003, 12:07 AM
02-24-2003, 10:42 AM
Now Wojo, with that be Minoraville or Majoratropolis. I think I been to the latter...they got great juice there right? They tell me as long as you're patient when you go there...
02-24-2003, 11:16 AM
06-03-2004, 02:54 AM
I agree with some of the points he made in the article- most kids today turn to supplements or AAS *WAY* too soon - before they even know how to squat properly, and that's really sad. I dont think that a lot of the pros 'dont train', that's just ridiculous. Even with steroids, there's no way they'd be that big if they werent training/dieting properly to make the most of their drug use.
Yeah, I think the older guys look a hell of a lot better - Id rather look like Arnold or Dave Draper than Jay Cutler any day. (yeah yeah, Arnold juiced, but not with the cornacopia of chemical paraphenalia that's available today)
Steroids are a tool that's available to the bodybuilder, that can only be effectively used by learning about them and accepting/managing the risks associated with their use. They're not 'evil' or 'destroying sports'. People as a whole are stupid and ignorant, and that's what's destroying sports.
06-03-2004, 02:56 PM
The thing that gets me is, looking past athletic performance, AAS enhance your apperance, and it seems hypocritical to me in this day and age of boob jobs, implant s for everything, plastic surgery, lipo suction, botox partys...blah blah blah...its all accepted, but steriods or prohormones....oh my
06-03-2004, 03:09 PM
I don't think he sounds bitter, per se. I think he makes valid points that many of us here have made, in one way or another. I think it's what you do with his points that matters. I, for one, since I'm never going to compete in figure contests, can totally understand the point of "why take steroids if $ isn't attached to it." In other words, unless my paycheck depends on a 250 pound, 4% BF physique, why would I do steroids? I have done PH cycles, and yes, I am aware that the Methyls I'm taking are steroids, so maybe I'm fooling myself, but I've also been training for 10 years+ and am well over the age threshold, and I ADMIT, I am looking for faster results, and YES, this is sort of a cop-out and narcissitic. I'm sure if any of us analyzed our motives, we'd find vanity somewhere in the mix, and to pretend it's not is not being honest.
I totally agree that more and more young athletes go straight to juice without any fundamentals. YES--MANY OF US HERE know out fundamentals, but we also spend a lot of time posting and thinking about this stuff, so we're not average : )
I see a lot of younger guys who have no form, no dedication, and drinking/partying all the time exploding on Test and other stuff, and then thinking they're somehow "bodybuilders." If this is the case, the only factor is who can afford the best drugs...and if this is the case, then I agree with the original post, that is no sport.
There is a middle ground--A good example of someone who is totally old school and apparently only uses small amounts of roids is "The Blonde Myth," Lee Preist. This guy is freaky big, and yet look how he trains, eats, bulks--totally old school. He's not afraid to blimp out in the off season, doesn't eat fufu bull**** 24-7, relies on compund exercies, and has subsequently built an absolutely freaky body.
And people can say whatever they want about Ronnie Coleman being roid master, but look how he trains...totally old school. Who else deadlifts 700+ 5 weeks out from the O? And his quad striations were popping through spandex before he ever started on the Olympia path. People say he has GH gut, but it could also be that he eats like a monster off season and the abdominal fascia have stretched out (this DOES happen).
I think educated AAS users and bodybuilders in general would be taken more seriously if we acknowleged some of these things, instead of getting defensive every time they are brought up. You don't have to agree 100%, just realize that from another perspective, **** looks pretty whacked out.
06-03-2004, 09:20 PM
Well i have seen pics of Sean Toohey and he is one big and strong mofo.His training ideas are from the school of Dr.Ken Leistner of HIT fame.His writings can get dogmatic but he basically preaches hard work on the basics with frequent rest days and food.Trust me when you can squat 400+x24 you are one tough bastard.
06-03-2004, 09:39 PM
The author is obviously one deluded m-f*cker based on most of his comments about steroids.
The message of this article is however not entirely incorrect. The PH rage has taken on epidemic proportions thanks to companies not really caring what they put out, utter lack of information about proper use, lack of legal available post-cycle material and 15-year old wannab's who think they are invincible.
Let's face it, your kids (for those of you who have kids) can walk into a store and start screwing around with **** like methyl-1test and the like. Dunno about the rest of you, but that's a grim vision to me.
Obesity is an epidemic cause most people are too lazy to do exercise or eat properly. How do you expect these kids will use such supplements ? It certainly won't be with a decent hardcore lifting program and a proper diet. Who will they emulate ? Arnold maybe ? Cept Arnold was a lazy **** himself. He ate D-bols between his sandwiches and still only made it to 235 lbs, add in the gallons of primo and you have to wonder if this is really who you want your kids to copy.
Far as I'm concerned, they can ban prohormones, and fast. i used to think it was an exciting field of research, now I think its a plague.
There is something like paying your dues. And I'm an educated man and not as deluded as the author of this piece. if push comes to shove and my kids want to use roids, I will assist them like I assist my athletes. With their health and success in mind. When the time is right and using proper testosterone based stacks and PCT. But this is BS.
06-03-2004, 09:56 PM
I'm with you bro, I am awaiting the ban with open arms any more. Just take a look at the PH section here now. Every other thread is about stacking 2, 3, even 4 methylated compounds and then asking what to do with their PCT and sometimes they ask what PCT even is....
This is just too much now, and somebody's gonna end up getting hurt. Especially with all of these so-called "guru's" that tell the young guys on the boards and at the gyms awful, wreckless, and plain out wrong advice....
As soon as the methyls started coming out, we all knew that it wasn't gonna be long....in a way, people took too much advantage of the situation and that cannot be argued. These major manufacturer's say that "Well, under DHSEA, etc. as long as its in the food chain and not scheduled, we have the right"
Well yeah, but they cannot seriously say that when looking at the US's gov't with an outside eye, they were just gonna let all this slide just cuz its' "legal."
The manufacturer's themselves were the downfall of their industry and to tell you the truth, I'm sick and tired of hearing about it...
06-03-2004, 10:11 PM
06-03-2004, 10:22 PM
Lol that guy is off of his rocker. He said "I explained that not only were steroids unnecessary but they were something that was ruining the sport. He asked me to explain myself. I explained that you could get as big as you wished just by lifting properly and eating correctly" lol right I"m sure ronnie cold of been just as big in about 150yrs of lifting. He saying **** how natural guys are stronger. Right, thats why all powerlifters are natural.lol
06-03-2004, 10:25 PM
I think the pro-hormone ban sucks. Its totaly ridiculous to have them illegal and smoking and alcohol llegal. I can bet alcohol will kill more kids and people in a year than prohormones ever will. I have never heard of steroids or prohormones killing anybody. Although I have heard of people overdosing on alcohol. And most all fatal accidents have alcohol included. The system is so ****ed up its not even funny.
06-03-2004, 10:42 PM
With these methylated compounds available to the uneducated it won't be long before some of them keel over, trust me. This is a very real problem. Uneducated use will cause problems, moreover they will cause long-term problems most users aren't even aware of. Until of course one day they want to have kids and can't because of some 20-week cycle they gained absolutely nothing from.
No, I might have followed that reasoning at one time, but its gone too far now.
Of course good point on alcohol and tobacco, those should indeed be legal. I'm already happy Europe is making a great leap forward banning tobacco in most places.
Steroids should be legal, but they should remain controlled. Noone should be able to get them OTC, they are still medication with severe side-effects. As with most medication, it is a good thing, provided it is used correctly. Uninformed use however is a serious health threat.
06-03-2004, 11:46 PM
almost every single paragraph contains either lies, misstatements, or at best - misleading statements.
one after another.
my opinion: this is a screed. there is very little substance, total falsification to "make a point", and little adherence to logic, or even internal consistency.
06-04-2004, 02:57 PM
Well the article above is talking about physical enhancement for sport and not vanity. We could start a whole different thread for that.Originally Posted by willieman
06-04-2004, 05:24 PM
There's actually a PH someone makes called 'Gangsta Test?" Jesus Holy Ass Christ. No wonder all this ****'s going illegal....Gangsta Test
I think its good that 17 year old kids wont be able to get their hands on m1T (I see the results in my gym, its absurd) - but at the same time the ignorance of the masses has once again ruined it for the educated minority.
Oh well - I guess the educated minority will always find a way to make due.
06-04-2004, 06:55 PM
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