Thoughts on AAS/PH effects on gains. reps for good responces

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b
    So, if your on trt, but keep it a secret, and compete in Natty shows, is that cheating?

    Say guy next to you has natural test levels in the 800s, but yours naturally are in the 200s, but after trt, yours are in the 800-1,000s,
    Are you cheating?
    Good point. TRT is becoming so popular now days. There must be dozens if not hundreds of professional athletes on TRT. I wonder how they handle it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by El Hefe View Post

    Good point. TRT is becoming so popular now days. There must be dozens if not hundreds of professional athletes on TRT. I wonder how they handle it?
    And what's to say a doctor's professional opinion recommended an athlete's testosterone be 1200 or even higher? Perhaps they could cite some underlying medical reason why it needs to be that high.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    So, if your on trt, but keep it a secret, and compete in Natty shows, is that cheating?

    Say guy next to you has natural test levels in the 800s, but yours naturally are in the 200s, but after trt, yours are in the 800-1,000s,
    Are you cheating?
    I think for the purpose, yes that would be considered cheating. If you can't achieve the goal by your own capabilities, then that is considered cheating. Say Lance Armstrong was a natural competitor with a Vo2Max of 90 ml/kg/min and you went in with a Vo2Max of 40 ml/kg/min then thats your own problem; if you need to blood dope to get up to 90 ml/kg/min just be be on his level (comparable with low vs. high testosterone athletes) then you are bending the rules to stay relevant.

    If you juice, then admit it and just go into that category; don't claim natty when you aint.

    If you are using TRT as an excuse to bump test back into the normal-mid range of 400-500ish, then that would be fine. But Bumping it up to high imo is just being dishonest.
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    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    And what's to say a doctor's professional opinion recommended an athlete's testosterone be 1200 or even higher? Perhaps they could cite some underlying medical reason why it needs to be that high.
    If you tested that high and it was found it was exogenous test, you would be banned from competing regardless of what your doctor says. Lance Armstrong had medical teams working for him that would have administered his drugs and things but yet he was still banned. TRT implies bumping low testosterone back into the normal-mid range, not the high range.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post

    If you tested that high and it was found it was exogenous test, you would be banned from competing regardless of what your doctor says.TRT implies bumping low testosterone back into the normal-mid range, not the high range.
    Debatable. I'm not sure either of knows competitive professional sport policy on TRT
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    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    Debatable. I'm not sure either of knows competitive professional sport policy on TRT
    All of the organisations i've worked with don't allow supraphysiological test levels.
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    Not talking about BBing here though, just general Rugby, Football (soccer) and Oly Lifting
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    Was Lance cheating even if every other person in the competition was also doping? Seems like an even playing field to me.

    Like Darrell Waltrip and many other NASCAR racers have said - If your note cheating, your not racing. Let alone winning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Hefe View Post
    Was Lance cheating even if every other person in the competition was also doping? Seems like an even playing field to me.

    Like Darrell Waltrip and many other NASCAR racers have said - If your note cheating, your not racing. Let alone winning.
    I guess it's only cheating if you get caught
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    Quote Originally Posted by JRam View Post
    "Cheating" is such a loaded word IMO. It has a very negative connotation. Perhaps for good reason. However, it has been my experience that most of the people who are at the top of their respective professions, whether it's in business, law, politics, etc., are guilty of what would be considered cheating. And the people who don't cheat, while they may feel a certain sense of self-satisfaction, never reach the pinnacle of their chosen endeavors. Take Arnold for example, by all outward measures, he is considered a success. He is the most popular bodybuilder of all time, a famous movie star, former governor of a US state, and rich beyond belief. But less face it, had Arnold never used AAS we would have never heard of him. Sure, you can say steroids were "legal" in Arnold's day; but they weren't "legal" for bodybuilding purposes. More or less like today, they were legal for medicinal purposes. Just like today, many in Arnold's era viewed taking drugs to enhance their physique as cheating. And you know what? We've never heard of any of these guys. They may have been legends in their local gym but they certainly didn't become global icons. So should one use AAS? Well, if you want to be a legend in the fitness industry, by all means don't hesitate. And if you want to present yourself as natural for marketing purposes go ahead and use them as you'll have a tremendous advantage against real naturals. Just don't get caught like Lance, who is another example of a "cheater" who became an international superstar. Lance's big downfall was his hubris though. Had he been smart about it no one would have never known and his experience would have more closely resembled that of Arnold's. Dare to cheat and be great. Or be a nobody. I'm not passing judgment, it just is what it is.
    Excellent explanation. Couldn't have said it better myself.
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    Quote Originally Posted by El Hefe View Post
    Was Lance cheating even if every other person in the competition was also doping? Seems like an even playing field to me.

    Like Darrell Waltrip and many other NASCAR racers have said - If your note cheating, your not racing. Let alone winning.
    Completely agree. People who discredited him for cheating seem oblivious to the fact that he was not alone. IMO that isn't cheating because doping had become a part of the sport and so ingrained into that culture; i still think Lance is a superhuman athlete who only did what he did because everyone else was doing it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Completely agree. People who discredited him for cheating seem oblivious to the fact that he was not alone. IMO that isn't cheating because doping had become a part of the sport and so ingrained into that culture; i still think Lance is a superhuman athlete who only did what he did because everyone else was doing it.
    of course he is. he was one of those child prodigy's like tiger woods, serena/venus Williams, andre agasey (sp lol).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Not talking about BBing here though, just general Rugby, Football (soccer) and Oly Lifting
    I know Nate Marquardt of the UFC got straight roasted for being on TRT....they wouldn't let him fight and he got released not soon after if I recall correctly. There were a few other guys who were on TRT in the UFC, and I'm not sure how they were handled....but it seems it is frowned upon in just about any sport. Touchy subject since most of these guys are in their 20's and 30's (test should be fine for most), and I am not sure how many of them have actual genetic issues since childhood. There seems to be little excuse for most of these guys to be on TRT other than to gain an advantage. But if its legit? as in there is a real legitimate reason for it? I suppose it should be exempted.
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    I think a guy who is on legit TRT and has a good lawyer would have no problems. They may have had an issue 10 years ago, but its becoming more common every day (drug/pharm money). Nowadays, they better be ready for a lawsuit. In the future, it will be like banning a woman who is on bc for hormone stability.
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    The people saying that steroids will not help unless your training and diet are in check....you're dead wrong. I know people that have taken gear who have terrible lifting and diet habits and make serious gains. Do you think tren cares if there's a hamburger in your hand or a chicken breast and brown rice, no, you're gonna grow either way and your body will more efficiently handle those calories than if you weren't on steroids. This is not recommended, but sooo many people take steroids without having their basics down and get away with it because there's such strong drugs available. **** I know a guy that took test e and masteron e for 10 weeks and gained 15lbs and didn't lift, none. Magic?

    Also the guys saying that after steroid usage you will lose all your strength or gained muscle...you're dead wrong. I haven't taken gear in over two years and I'm bigger and stronger than I ever have been. Magic? No, I train 6 days a week, eat 7-8 meals a day and stay devoted to my fitness lifestyle whether on or off gear. Plus I understand how to properly cycle. If you're losing all you're gains after a cycle you don't know what you're doing.
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