Thoughts on AAS/PH effects on gains. reps for good responces
- 05-17-2013, 03:49 PM
- 05-17-2013, 03:55 PM
Way I see it, I have a goal for myself. To obtain that goal I need a boost. Why should I care what other people think? Mediocrity is pathetic.
- 05-17-2013, 04:18 PM
05-17-2013, 04:53 PM
05-17-2013, 05:31 PM
I was thinking about this the other day..... how many people take statins? Is that cheating? High BP meds? Cheaters? Antidepressants? Pain killers? The list goes on and on. But orals are OK/accepted but as soon as a medication goes IM, it's taboo.
This is so retarded. People who take AAS/PH are arguably the healthiest people around: diet and fitness oriented.
Cheating? Maybe in competition if nobody else uses. But cheating as in life? I say those cheaters in life are the ones who take drugs because of their poor health choices; obesity, type II diabetes, high BP, CPAP machines, motorized shopping cart things... THEY are the cheaters
05-17-2013, 05:33 PM
05-17-2013, 06:27 PM
The sport governing body's do not want you to cheat as it imparts a negative impact on the sporting image; think of the children who aspire to be these athletes for example, or want to grow up being the best in their field. Must the only way they can ever attain these results be from blood doping, injecting new compounds to hide under the radar and so on? Is this what we want the children to aspire toward?
The issue is though, that as the stress of being the best, as winning etc. mount and the pressure is on to retain medals and trophies and your job as an athlete, so to does the pressure to push yourself beyond what you are naturally capable to achieve. Sport is about winning; the parents that say "its not about winning, its about having fun" blah blah have got it wrong. When I compete, I want to win. I want to be the best. If I knew others in my sport were juicing, then I would too because otherwsie, I come second. And second doesn't get noticed by big sponsors.
Is it cheating? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Quite simply we want athletes to be bigger, better, faster stronger and be natural but then accuse them of cheating when they do attain these goals. If sport already has that kind of image, maybe it is time to embrace it.
Or maybe now more than ever it is time to change that perspective.
05-17-2013, 06:39 PM
Until organized sports do a better job of testing there is going to be continued use of steroids at the professional level. This kind of goes back to the if everyone is doing it is it cheating question. Hell the NFL doesn't even test for HGH yet!
Purus labs Rep
doin it mountain dog style in here come along for the shred fest-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229302-danbs-mountain-dog.html
05-17-2013, 06:54 PM
Speaking of organized sports and testing (not to hi jack jbry's thread) The MLB test for testosterone but they do it by testing a players baseline test levels throughout the year. Which made me think of a question for you guys who think any advantage is cheating....If a MLB player is on TRT and has constant test levels of let's say 800 to 1200 or somewhere in the "normal" range is that cheating? Even though he's on par with everyone else his age and has no significant advantage over anyone?
Purus labs Rep
doin it mountain dog style in here come along for the shred fest-http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/229302-danbs-mountain-dog.html
05-17-2013, 11:24 PM
I don't believe any sports test for ostraine yet
Representative of Chaos and Pain, LLC
https://www.facebook.com/ChaosAndPain Like us on facebook!
05-18-2013, 03:38 AM
Hgh, maybe. Test, t3 and slin? Absolutely not.
And I agree with bill 100%
A year back, I was the biggest guy in my gym
Now all the guys that used to come to me for training help are juiced to the gills and make me look small.
These guys do not train hard. I've watched them.
One set cable rows, ten minutes texting, one more set rows..
Leg pressing instead of squatting, it's a ****ing joke.
Talking using machines for arms.
To be honest it pisses me off how little they train and how much they gain.
They do not diet hard, I've heard/ seen what they do.
Weekly cheat meals? when I did my twelve week prep I got one cheat, and it was a few pounds of sweet potatoes.
Ex: offseason BB from above group
"i'm eating two meals a day three shakes i'm on hgh, slin, and test, why can't I grow?"
What a ****ing joke.
Let me be clear, I have nothing against those who juice-providing they are busting their ass in and out.
I do not however, have any respect for the guys that are using gear as a short cut for hard work and dedication.
I do not assume someone is on unless I know, or it's obvious.
Also, I find it kind of pathetic how much people who use downplay how much it helps.
Moral of the story, man up and admit you used. Don't walk up to me and tell me "I gained ten pounds starting my diet-it's all me bro"
05-18-2013, 06:02 AM
I guess you know a different side of it than I ever thought of. I train in a high school weight room M-F and a corporate gym Sat/Sun full of soccer moms and weekend warriors. So I am definitely naïve to your point as far as seeing guys who are juiced up hard.
Now that you shed some light like that you have me thinking. My point you quoted though is how the AAS user that I envision is conscious of their health, not a 500lb er looking for a miracle. Don't forget that probably 80%+ of people do not exercise or have a clue about health. So even though Brutus juices hard and has a BS training regime, he's still doing more than almost everybody else you will see in the general public.
05-18-2013, 06:42 AM
i'm not anti steroid, this is how I see it :
Your diet and training should make up The majority of the double layered cake. Gear is only the icing on top.
When I see people who don't have either layer of their cake so to speak, and are trying to pile on frosting, it makes me mad.
I have much respect for the guys that have everything dialed in. they have already made their cake, and they have every damn right to frost their cake as they please
05-18-2013, 08:21 AM
IMO taking steroids would only be cheating if every person would have been born with exactly the same genetic possibilities. Its easy for an genetically gifted person to say to a not so gentically gifted roider that he is a cheater because the former person doesnt have the need for taking PEDs. A lot of hypocrites out there.
05-18-2013, 03:13 PM
I think its only cheating if nobody in your sport is using gear. However, testing isn't as efficient as it should b so many ppl will work the system, so it won't b fair until everyone is on the same ground. Personally I use gear strictly for competitive BBing and I plan on going pro. I do bust my ass everyday though and I don't take for granted the genetics God has blessed me with. If I wasn't competing I'd probly still would've used but later in life.
05-18-2013, 03:15 PM
05-18-2013, 03:37 PM
05-19-2013, 04:44 AM
the most ridiculous thing is that in some sports who are considered olympic everything listed by the WADA is banned in competition though some of the prohibited compounds CANNOT have any positive impacts in this specific sports area.
05-19-2013, 12:44 PM
05-19-2013, 09:19 PM
"Cheating" is such a loaded word IMO. It has a very negative connotation. Perhaps for good reason. However, it has been my experience that most of the people who are at the top of their respective professions, whether it's in business, law, politics, etc., are guilty of what would be considered cheating. And the people who don't cheat, while they may feel a certain sense of self-satisfaction, never reach the pinnacle of their chosen endeavors. Take Arnold for example, by all outward measures, he is considered a success. He is the most popular bodybuilder of all time, a famous movie star, former governor of a US state, and rich beyond belief. But less face it, had Arnold never used AAS we would have never heard of him. Sure, you can say steroids were "legal" in Arnold's day; but they weren't "legal" for bodybuilding purposes. More or less like today, they were legal for medicinal purposes. Just like today, many in Arnold's era viewed taking drugs to enhance their physique as cheating. And you know what? We've never heard of any of these guys. They may have been legends in their local gym but they certainly didn't become global icons. So should one use AAS? Well, if you want to be a legend in the fitness industry, by all means don't hesitate. And if you want to present yourself as natural for marketing purposes go ahead and use them as you'll have a tremendous advantage against real naturals. Just don't get caught like Lance, who is another example of a "cheater" who became an international superstar. Lance's big downfall was his hubris though. Had he been smart about it no one would have never known and his experience would have more closely resembled that of Arnold's. Dare to cheat and be great. Or be a nobody. I'm not passing judgment, it just is what it is.
05-19-2013, 09:30 PM
05-19-2013, 09:35 PM
IMO it's like turbo charging or supercharging a car. Support is rebuilding it to withstand the psi. Boost controller and tunes are AI and pct. But what it all comes down to is who the driver is, where you drive it, and what kind of engine you want to slap it on. Different strokes for different folks. If you have a stupid driver(you), a horrible mechanic(your source and doctor), and a poor vehicle(your body) it doesn't matter where you drive it(sport specific bodybuilding, pwr lifting, etc.), it'll be a disaster.
(Lots of other factors play in but hopefully you get me lol)
BLACK LION RESEARCH
Supplements for bodybuilders
05-19-2013, 11:14 PM
05-20-2013, 01:25 AM
i still don't understand why no one wants to go by a definitional use of the term 'cheat', which would be, paraphrased, to obtain an unfair advantage by means that are against the rules. if steroids are banned in a sport, then i don't understand why people will refuse to admit it's cheating, when, by definition, it's exactly that.
regarding personal gains, i wouldn't say it's cheating because that seems like a stupid word to use to for the advancement of ones own goals. in a way, i understand it because of how many (maybe even most) use steroids/ph's these days and instead of using proper means to meet their end goal; they half ass and use drugs to meet that goal. so if 2 people have the same goal in mind and one uses drugs instead of self control and hard work, i guess i understand the other person's point of view. but that's the same way i view school, imo, we all want to make good grades, but when someone that doesn't need them is taking drugs to make themselves focus for 12 hours straight, it's not right to say, "well, you COULD take those drugs too, so it's your fault that you choose to do the work on your own merits".
basically, it comes down to what is allowed and what isn't allowed in a sport. if steroids are banned, as they are in almost every sport, then taking them is cheating. if using creatine is banned, then that's cheating as well. anything that's against the rules is cheating. i don't understand why people squabble over minor things that are nowhere near as beneficial as steroids when you could just look at the definition of "cheat" and determine that, in the world of sports, it's clearly cheating. i mean, saying, "well, everyone does it" doesn't make it any less against the rules, all that means is that the system for testing is broken.
it's like with college sports, i went to a d1 college, but they'll never be a real contender in ncaa football because they don't have the means to cheat as easily as sec schools who pay their players and get away with more things that are against the rules. i guess i just have an inherent problem with society saying it's ok to do things that are blatantly against the rules just because other people are doing it. i think ncaa sports are the biggest joke because it pretty much comes down to who can cheat the system most efficiently (whether it's with steroids, paying players, or anything else that's against the rules).
just because a lot (or most) people do something, doesn't make it any less against the rules. instead of saying it's not cheating to break the rules and deny the definition of the term "cheat", people should start pushing to have more stringent regulations so most people or teams aren't able to get away with it.
05-20-2013, 01:34 AM
and if you take steroids to obtain certain personal goals, thats completely fine with me, i'd do the same. my only problem stems from the fact that the vast majority of people i've seen do this walk around as if they're better than everyone that they're bigger than. that's what's aggravating to natural guys... putting in hard work and effort and then being looked down upon by someone that would be smaller and weaker than them if not for taking steroids.
i feel like everyone has similar goals in mind, and anyone saying they don't compare themselves to others in the gym with respect to that personal goal is a liar (whether it's strength, size, aesthetics, or a little bit of everything). so when someone is natural and they see someone pass them up as a result of steroid use, it's easy to refer to that person as a "cheater" because that person is reaching that goal in a much easier way. i just think it's kind of a stupid term to slap on something as ambiguous as personal goals, but i do understand where it comes from.... i just think its much easier to quantify someone as a "cheater" when they're doing something in a capacity that is blatantly against the rules.
05-20-2013, 02:09 AM
05-20-2013, 02:17 AM
Sorry to but in guys but I need some opinions fast, is this stuff fake? Looks nothing like any omegs I have seen
Work Hard. PLAY HARDER!!
05-20-2013, 02:18 AM
05-20-2013, 02:38 AM
05-20-2013, 06:19 AM
05-20-2013, 06:26 AM
05-20-2013, 02:25 PM
05-20-2013, 02:29 PM
05-20-2013, 03:18 PM
05-20-2013, 03:20 PM
What irritates me regarding the steroids/cheating debate is that they only target Winners.
They want to tear apart Lance Armstrong only to award the 2nd place loser who was surely taking drugs as well. Or if they tear apart and target the home run leader, they leave all the other juicers who came in 2nd to last alone.
Can you blame some of these guys for lying when their accusers are usually guilty one way or another. If they say yes and plead guilty, then they're crucified by the public and losers who juice and still couldn't perform get the trophy.
And if elevated test is cheating, then I guess it's unfair and cheating that some guys have 800-1000 test while others are trying to function at 300-400. Better make a new rule.
05-21-2013, 01:33 AM
I want to believe that most natural BB competitions contain drug free competitors. I'm not a complete idiot, i'm not talking about muscle mania, but other federations.
basically the top 20 against lance were all doping.
Edit: also, there aren't non tested tour de Frances.
These bikers don't really have a chance to compete against non tested guys in a separate fed..
BB and Pl is a different story
05-21-2013, 07:46 AM
05-21-2013, 09:29 AM
So, if your on trt, but keep it a secret, and compete in Natty shows, is that cheating?
Say guy next to you has natural test levels in the 800s, but yours naturally are in the 200s, but after trt, yours are in the 800-1,000s,
Are you cheating?
05-21-2013, 09:43 AM
05-21-2013, 10:39 AM
Similar Forum Threads
- By bigdavid in forum AnabolicsReplies: 4Last Post: 02-10-2012, 02:54 AM
- By cghardwick in forum AnabolicsReplies: 6Last Post: 10-23-2009, 12:45 PM
- By cloc in forum AnabolicsReplies: 3Last Post: 02-07-2007, 01:16 AM
- By GTOman in forum General ChatReplies: 1Last Post: 02-26-2005, 11:54 PM
- By Blatalian in forum AnabolicsReplies: 52Last Post: 09-13-2004, 10:11 PM