What to take to minimize PH sides?

[1976pianoman]

Lethargy and no motivation was a problem for me on my last cycle (epi 30/50/50/60). I wonder if pinning test would have prevented this? I'm not ready to pin yet so I'm looking for another solution. Would staking with a DHT PH help? I know nothing about them, but heard that might be a solution. What is the most common method for countering sides like lethargy? I was told if I planned better, I could have avoided the sides. So help me to plan better! I'm still not counting out the slim chance that what I was experiencing was not related to test/shut-down rather liver stress, yet EPI is suppose to be rather mild, so I'm leaning more toward my lethargy being related to shut-down. Any thoughts on this?

 

[JRam]

Lethargy and no motivation was a problem for me on my last cycle (epi 30/50/50/60). I wonder if pinning test would have prevented this? I'm not ready to pin yet so I'm looking for another solution. Would staking with a DHT PH help? I know nothing about them, but heard that might be a solution. What is the most common method for countering sides like lethargy? I was told if I planned better, I could have avoided the sides. So help me to plan better! I'm still not counting out the slim chance that what I was experiencing was not related to test/shut-down rather liver stress, yet EPI is suppose to be rather mild, so I'm leaning more toward my lethargy being related to shut-down. Any thoughts on this?

Nothing beats pinning test in decent amounts. Nothing. The feeling can almost be euphoric to some degree.However, you could try a 4-DHEA product. I've got some very decent results from 150 - 200 grams of 4-DHEA.

 

[OnionKnight]

dht or a test base are both used to counter lethargy from supressed test. by test base, i mean 4dhea, transdermal dhea, or pinning test. dht is either stano or epiandrosterone. none of thse are methyated so you can add them to virtually any stack without impacting your liver. supression however could get worse by adding them

 

[1976pianoman]

supression however could get worse by adding them

Do you mean that I might feel better on cycle, but at the risk of being more severely shut down, therefore a more significant PCT would be in order? Or are you saying the whole thing could go south and I could possible feel even worse on-cycle?

 

[OnionKnight]

Do you mean that I might feel better on cycle, but at the risk of being more severely shut down, therefore a more significant PCT would be in order? Or are you saying the whole thing could go south and I could possible feel even worse on-cycle?

i mean youll feel better on cycle but you could risk shut down. doesnt necesarily mean a bigger pct is in order, but pct could get a little rough if you do reach shut down status

it really depends what you add and at what dose. if youre feeling like **** from a sd cycle, youre probly already shutdown. at that point, it cant really do any more harm

 

[JRam]

Do you mean that I might feel better on cycle, but at the risk of being more severely shut down, therefore a more significant PCT would be in order? Or are you saying the whole thing could go south and I could possible feel even worse on-cycle?

I would say the former as opposed to the latter. Things never go south the test is coursing through your veins.

 

[1976pianoman]

Thank you. Now it's dumb question time. Is 4-DHEA the standard DHEA supplement that I see at my Vitamin Shoppe, or is the "4" a different kind of DHEA?Is taking DHEA going to be the same as taking epiandrosterone? Epiandrosterone is a metabolite of DHEA isn't it?

 

[OnionKnight]

4dhea and epiandro are both dhea metabolites. normal dhea converts to all sorts of ****. 4dhea is a 2step conversion to test. epiandro is a conversion to dht

 

[1976pianoman]

it really depends what you add and at what dose. if youre feeling like **** from a sd cycle, youre probly already shutdown. at that point, it cant really do any more harm

Okay, I get cha. Yeah, I am totally shut down even now in my 4th week of PCT. Actually, just yesterday I was getting that slight urge to look at porn again, which is encouraging. That's my barometer apparently. I'm taking research chem Nolva. I suppose it could be bunk. I have hopes that in the days to come I will bounce back. I think next time I will get legit Nolva from a foreign pharm company.

 

[JRam]

Thank you. Now it's dumb question time. Is 4-DHEA the standard DHEA supplement that I see at my Vitamin Shoppe, or is the "4" a different kind of DHEA?Is taking DHEA going to be the same as taking epiandrosterone? Epiandrosterone is a metabolite of DHEA isn't it?

The 4-DHEA product that I'm using is the one by Iron Mag Labs (other companies make 4-DHEA products but I have no first-hand experience w/ them). It's not the same, nor is it as inexpensive, as your standard health food store DHEA supplement, which is really cheap. Epiandrosterone is another DHEA product but I have never tried it so I can't vouch for its efficacy, or lack thereof.

 

[JRam]

Okay, I get cha. Yeah, I am totally shut down even now in my 4th week of PCT. Actually, just yesterday I was getting that slight urge to look at porn again, which is encouraging. That's my barometer apparently. I'm taking research chem Nolva. I suppose it could be bunk. I have hopes that in the days to come I will bounce back. I think next time I will get legit Nolva from a foreign pharm company.

Check out the Kate Upton video of her doing the cat daddy. That usually helps me.

 

[1976pianoman]

4dhea and epiandro are both dhea metabolites. normal dhea converts to all sorts of ****. 4dhea is a 2step conversion to test. epiandro is a conversion to dht

Okay, I think I will go with 4DHEA. What dosage would you recommend? Eventually, I will be pinning, but I have some concerns about my source right now. If anyone here that is in the US who knows of these things would be willing to like to talk to me privately about this, PM me. Until then, I will be sticking with PH.

 

[1976pianoman]

Check out the Kate Upton video of her doing the cat daddy. That usually helps me.

LOL. Yes, that does help! Thanks. I will add that to my future PCT's.

 

[1976pianoman]

The 4-DHEA product that I'm using is the one by Iron Mag Labs (other companies make 4-DHEA products but I have no first-hand experience w/ them). It's not the same, nor is it as inexpensive, as your standard health food store DHEA supplement, which is really cheap. Epiandrosterone is another DHEA product but I have never tried it so I can't vouch for its efficacy, or lack thereof.

Is the product you are talking about called 4-Andro Rx by IronMagLabs? I found it on Amazon 60 caps for $40. Don't know what the dosage should be.

 

[JRam]

Is the product you are talking about called 4-Andro Rx by IronMagLabs? I found it on Amazon 60 caps for $40. Don't know what the dosage should be.

Yes, that's it. I'm dosing at 150 - 200 mg a day, each capsule is 50 mg.

 

[JRam]

Yes, that's it. I'm dosing at 150 - 200 mg a day, each capsule is 50 mg.

It took about 10 days or so for effects to be felt so u need to be somewhat patient.

 

[1976pianoman]

I was thinking of stacking HD or SD with transdermal Trenazone. Can I safely add 4-DHEA to this stack?

 

[JRam]

I was thinking of stacking HD or SD with transdermal Trenazone. Can I safely add 4-DHEA to this stack?

I don't see why not. No added liver toxicity and hopefully will help w/ suppression by increasing test levels.

 

[1976pianoman]

The other option would be to go to my doc to get my t levels tested now which will test low cause I'm not fully recovered. Get a TRT prescription that my health care provider would probably pay for, or at least pay part of and do TRT while on cycle. Are people doing this? Are the TRT dosages significant enough to battle lethargy?

 

[JRam]

The other option would be to go to my doc to get my t levels tested now which will test low cause I'm not fully recovered. Get a TRT prescription that my health care provider would probably pay for, or at least pay part of and do TRT while on cycle. Are people doing this? Are the TRT dosages significant enough to battle lethargy?

TRT is an option. As far as dosage, it depends on how aggressive a doctor you can find. You're more likely to get a higher prescription from an anti-aging type doctor than an internist or someone not familiar with what you're looking to do. You might even get a prescription for the patches, which I understand are not very effective. You can also hoard your doses and plan a cycle that way. Ive read about some people doing this. you won't be lethargic on sufficient test.

 

[1976pianoman]

Okay last question. If I'm able to request what I want from my doctor, what is the ideal TRT? You say patches are no good. Does the same apply to all transdermal methods? I can't imagine him prescribing me anything that I would pin, so I presume it will be transdermal. Or are docs actually prescribing pinned test for TRT frequently?

 

[JRam]

You can definitely get injectable test as part of a TRT protocol. You just have to find the right MD. The dosage is something for you and your provider to work out. At least 300 mg would be a nice start.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Holy shyt, 300mg? nice cycle there, but not so nice trt dose. 100mg is fine for most guys, some do as low as 70mg and some do 150-200mg of course (which is also overboard and is not "trt" in my estimations at 200mg+). As for the topicals? Androgel got me to around 800, which is more than adequate. I like the topical since I can apply twice daily to keep levels super constant (topical daily + twice daily)...I also apply it where I get some DHT conversion, which is better controlled via topical application. You don't want to take retarded doses of test EW for the rest of your life 365....this is for a therapeutic dose to get you to normal or high normal. You can always save up test and blast at 300-500 for a few months....but damn....

 

[1976pianoman]

I'm going to aim for test cyp 200mg/week from an anti-aging clinic that treats low-t. Would this dosage be enough to eliminate shut-down related lethargy? Should I also take 4-DHEA?

 

[JRam]

I'm going to aim for test cyp 200mg/week from an anti-aging clinic that treats low-t. Would this dosage be enough to eliminate shut-down related lethargy? Should I also take 4-DHEA?

Definitely no need IMO for a 4-DHEA product if you're getting 200 mg of test a week.

 

[JRam]

Holy shyt, 300mg? nice cycle there, but not so nice trt dose. 100mg is fine for most guys, some do as low as 70mg and some do 150-200mg of course (which is also overboard and is not "trt" in my estimations at 200mg+). As for the topicals? Androgel got me to around 800, which is more than adequate. I like the topical since I can apply twice daily to keep levels super constant (topical daily + twice daily)...I also apply it where I get some DHT conversion, which is better controlled via topical application. You don't want to take retarded doses of test EW for the rest of your life 365....this is for a therapeutic dose to get you to normal or high normal. You can always save up test and blast at 300-500 for a few months....but damn....

You're right, I'm being overly aggressive. However, I never got much out of lower doses of test (pharma grade), although that was admittedly not for TRT or therapeutic purposes.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

You're right, I'm being overly aggressive. However, I never got much out of lower doses of test (pharma grade), although that was admittedly not for TRT or therapeutic purposes.

yeah you meant he should horde up some test via feigning the need for trt with a purposely tanked test score.....I get that part, but I'm not sure he should be taking 300mg+ if he was originally looking for a simple test base (where I say androgel is the best test base around if you can get 8 pumps or more out of it and 75-100mg of test per week). That being said, if he's gonna be gung-ho and go full blown test cycle, not "test base" plus whatever, then yeah 300mg is a great first cycle in my estimations. If you can't make gains on 250-300mg your first cycle then you are doing something wrong....that is a LOT of test since I have found that ~100mg gets me in the 800's. 3X that amount better get you double that or more, which is enough to gain on.

 

[1976pianoman]

Thank you guys.