First cycle of RAW(epi and lmg)
- 05-11-2013, 01:45 PM
First cycle of RAW(epi and lmg)
First post here and looking for a little help and advice. Ok here's a little backround about myself. Been lifting off and on for several years but the last year has been pretty intense. I'm a classic ectomorph and when I started a year ago I weighed about 150 because I had a stress induced ulcer from marital problems. Tried several test boosters like daa, beast, core test, natadrol with decent results. Wasn't exactly what I was hoping for so I decided to go ph. Natadrol was probably the best before I tried raw. I was eating like a beast on natadrol and went up to 184 but got pretty sick in Feb and Mar. Dropped down to 172 and now on RaW I've been able to lean out a little more while adding 3 lbs. I'm currently 175 5'10.5" now at roughly 10% bf. Diet is pretty clean and consuming roughly 3000-3500 calories a day.
On to the RaW cycle. Each cap has 10 mg of epi and 25mg of max lmg. Sounded like a decent first ph and wasn't sure what to expect. Started taking 2 caps/day for the first week, up'ed to 3 caps/day til week 3, and then went to 4/day until the second bottle that I split with a friend is gone. Little over 4 weeks in now with a few days left and I'm not really seeing the results I was hoping for. I leaned out from this but didn't really see much with strength gains or mass. Will be taking beast super test for 2 weeks, then core test the next two weeks along with formadrol as needed for pct. Liver support was run before, during, and will continue after. Don't really feel I need a serm because I don't think I'm anywhere near shut down.
Thoughts to why I'm not seeing the results? Should I consider a serm even though I'm not shut down? Any tweaks to pct?
Thinking about running super dmz somewhere down the line because I was not very impressed with RaW and think dmz is much stronger and more along the lines of what I'm looking for. Will more than likely run a normal recommended cycle at 2 caps a day along with support supps. Will def get a serm if I go this route tho. Seems people get shut down pretty easily on dmz since its so potent. Thanks in advance for any replies.
- 05-11-2013, 03:07 PM
Christ where to began. You aren't seeing results for the same reason you werent seeing results before you started using steroids, its a diet or training issue. For how tall you are you should be able to get to 184 natty easy if you know what you are doing with your diet and training. You aren't shut down? Post the blood work you had done that shows your test levels are where they were precycle.
- 05-11-2013, 05:07 PM
Thanks for the kind reply tough guy. If you actually read my post i did hit 184 natty but i got sick. I leaned out du e to how hard i was training in addition to my strenuous job. I've cycled between 3,4, and 5 day splits and have been seeing great results with five days a week so i highly doubt you have any idea how hard i train. I'm no noob so I'd appreciate the courtesy of respect. Just because i have one post doesn't mean i don't know ****. Apparently eating a clean 3500 calories a day and lifting hard 5 days a week is bad training. And since i work at a gym i clearly have no idea how any of the equipment works.
As far as being shut down that is just my personal opinion due to knowing my body better than anyone else. I'll fax my blood work over to you so you can hide behind your keyboard and talk smack. Thanks for the advise douche nozzle.
05-11-2013, 05:14 PM
05-11-2013, 05:22 PM
05-11-2013, 05:47 PM
05-11-2013, 06:30 PM
05-11-2013, 06:56 PM
05-11-2013, 07:08 PM
I hate to say it OP but these two are right. If you can't hit 200 lb at 5'10.5" natty you're clearly not doing something right. Why don't you train for a few months without sups and if you're progressing well, then add in what you plan to take.
Your diet and training are the cake, hormones are just the icing. That's it
Let me ask you this: how much do you squat how much do you deadlift? What are your training goals?
If you don't do the above two lifts, and are contemplating hormones, just quit now
05-11-2013, 07:27 PM
05-11-2013, 07:34 PM
fyi youre irritating everyone more by throwing around hard gainer and ectomorph too much. those are just excuses 99% of the time
get on a better routine, learn progression, and play solo epistane for 5-6 weeks. youll feel the difference if youve been trackign progression properly, not just going by ear every day and running the movements. thats pretty much pointless
05-11-2013, 07:38 PM
05-11-2013, 07:41 PM
if you truly are an ectomorph, then prove it by throwing up a picture for everyone. but you better be 6'+ with long ass fingers, arms, and legs and a narrow head
05-11-2013, 07:51 PM
05-11-2013, 07:55 PM
Lol I hear ya with certs being a joke. Seen plenty of trainers that don't look the part. I just took a pic on thurs on my phone. Can I upload that somehow?
05-11-2013, 08:27 PM
05-11-2013, 08:29 PM
depends on the routine. i do strength training so my progression is a 2.5% increase in weight every week while maintaining 5 reps. but you have to track workouts to keep consistancy. yea its ridiculously simple, but youd be surprised at the amount of fools in this world that just run the movements every day
05-11-2013, 08:35 PM
05-11-2013, 08:36 PM
05-11-2013, 08:45 PM
05-11-2013, 08:48 PM
Haha yeah now but I don't even look back at them. That's only for you guys to follow. I never recorded anything up until my cycle. I just have numbers in my head and I try for a pump and go entirely by feel. If my muscles don't feel it, I change up just like that
05-11-2013, 08:48 PM
05-11-2013, 09:08 PM
So basically this has turned into ectomorphs aren't limited genetically thread. Listen I have over 5 years of lifting exp and this last year is where I actually focused on diet much more. Yes I did make some gains in size and lean mass but only about 5 more lbs. I suppose I do have lower bf and that is a good thing but you guys make it seem like I'm a moron because I cant add mass easily. To hit 185 at 7% bf is a ridiculously hard endever for me to achieve. I'm looking for any edge and thought now was as good a time as any to try a ph. Its not like I just started lifting 6 months ago and hit up a supp store saying I wanna get HUUUGGGEEEE lol. I have a pretty good understanding of many exercises, diet, and importance of rest.
05-12-2013, 03:03 AM
Not trying to bash you bro but get back after the squats and deads. Focus on getting stronger on these lifts and you'll add quality mass to your frame. I promise.
And no gaining size isn't easy I agree.
5'8" 200lb 13% body fat here. Been training for eight years started at 105lb
05-12-2013, 09:23 AM
If you want to get the thread back on track....
Run a serm and get bloodwork. Running Clomid for 4 weeks won't hurt you on the slim chance your epi was underdosed or bunk. Bloodwork is the only true way of knowing your hpta has recovered. Also wait the appropriate amount of time before running your next cycle.
05-12-2013, 09:36 AM
05-12-2013, 09:52 AM
05-12-2013, 10:52 AM
and another reason everyone thinks youre an idiot is because you bought the raw stack in the first place, and an otc pct from a store. so its retty obvious that you didnt do any research seeing you bought a product from a youtube video. ptherwise youd have known that epi or halo for 6 weeks is the way to go
good places to start so read over them and pick one. both very good first run cmpounds for 6 weeks, not 4. you cut this one short and underdosed it
05-12-2013, 11:09 AM
Do you want to know why people including me jumped on your posts? It's cause its frustrating for us when noobs come in thinking they can reinvent the wheel with three months of research. I have been learning and studying for 10 years, same with the other guys who posted in this thread, you just need to realize that while 3 months may seem like a long time, you don't know as much as many of these other posters. I am done with this thread.
05-12-2013, 11:14 AM
At least onion has a decent understanding of wtf he's doing from all of his posts I've seen.
I'll add in, op, get off the juice. I'm a half inch shorter than you. Didn't touch gear until 210lbs @10%.im a half inch shorter. Stating "body types" is pretty out dated. We all train to look ecto/ You really should get A serm for pct. Lmg isn't a kiddie compound it's a failed contraceptive. You understand stuff like that is designed to make your junk stop working right? How much mass did you expect to gain off a 4 week ds cycle? Drugs at standard doses don't work miracles. Even with drugs it doesn't happen over night
. You mentioned you were trying to recomp and gained 3 lbs. pretty good imo. Depending on your deficit it explains strength too. How many dudes maintain all strength in a deficit? On gear? I'm struggling to hold strength in a 500 cal deficit. I haven't gained any body weight. I'm using around a gram a week anabolics with trt test.
You sound like a whiney f*cking kid wanting it now. Act like a grown ass man. Be patient. Work your ass off for what you want and stop acting like a spoiled brat. Don't ask advice in a forum if you think you won't like the answer.
I'm just a dude chasing a dream
05-12-2013, 11:59 AM
05-12-2013, 12:09 PM
Edit- Didn't realize taking 30 mg of epi was considered underdosing? Thought 40-50 was the sweet spot for most but many see results at 30/day. I didn't buy this bc of some video lol. I did some research and they had a sale on this product. Dropped from 100 t0 50/bottle. I'll be running this 5 weeks total so not that much diff than your 6 that you recommended. If I order some liquid clomid will you guys back off a little? Everyone comes off like I know absolutely nothing and assume the worst while putting themselves up on this pedastal
05-12-2013, 01:17 PM
Ok I'm just going to order clomid. Would there be any benefit to adding letrozol, tamoxifen, and/or torem? I originally planned on using just clomid at the beginning of my cycle but figured it wasn't working and didn't have the need to run one.
05-13-2013, 03:06 AM
05-13-2013, 09:33 AM
and if you read numerous threads, youd have known raw sucks. we come off as elitists because you wernt listening and kept making dum excuses
05-13-2013, 10:16 AM
05-13-2013, 10:21 AM
05-13-2013, 10:31 AM
I think you underdosed the epi. I am on my first week on epi, and I am already seeing results. Modest results, but they are there only a week into cycle. I probably think my diet has helped because I am eating way more than I was eating. I am running epi at 40mg a day, since day 2, and already look leaner (I can appreciate it and other people as well) and gained 3 pounds.So, again, I think you underdosed the epi.Finally, im glad you are going to run a serm.
05-13-2013, 12:21 PM
05-13-2013, 12:24 PM
No i ran it at 2 caps a day for week one then up ed it to 3/day till week 3. I've been at 4/day since then and have 5 days left. 5 weeks total. Personally i think its just a ****ty product bc my training and diet are on point. Taking 100mg of lmg and 40mg of epi i should be feeling it come on pretty strong but its incredibly weak.
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