First cycle of RAW(epi and lmg)

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    Quote Originally Posted by jbeltmann View Post
    You clearly didn't read that i had knee surgery and lost lots of time to work on legs due to said injury
    "I had an ACL reconstruction done. The surgeon used semitendinosus tendon for the operation. rehab was a bitch. I didn't notice any major improvements until I started squatting with moderate weight. I started squatting with 135 lbs. about 3 months after the surgery and was back to squatting my regular weight about 10 - 12 months later. Four years later later, I'm squatting significantly more weight than before the injury. There is no pain in the knee when I squat below parallel. When I try to go ass to the ground I do feel some stiffness in the joint. "

    you can make excuses or you can make progress

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    Quote Originally Posted by liftstrong View Post
    "I had an ACL reconstruction done. The surgeon used semitendinosus tendon for the operation. rehab was a bitch. I didn't notice any major improvements until I started squatting with moderate weight. I started squatting with 135 lbs. about 3 months after the surgery and was back to squatting my regular weight about 10 - 12 months later. Four years later later, I'm squatting significantly more weight than before the injury. There is no pain in the knee when I squat below parallel. When I try to go ass to the ground I do feel some stiffness in the joint. "

    you can make excuses or you can make progress
    I get what you're saying. Initially it was physical, but at the beginning of training it was mental. Not easy to overcome that block. Trust me I'm not happy with my progress yet but I was just trying to shed some light on the situation as to why those numbers aren't higher. I train my ass off to get back to 250 for reps with squats but I'm plateauing and switching up my routine. I'm here for advise, not to make excuses so i do appreciate every ones posts, just not necessarily in the manner some may word it. I've seen plenty of guys smaller and younger than me but no one gives them flak. I guess i don't understand why some members were trigger happy with the insults. Yes i have plenty to learn. That's why we're all here.
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    There is this Xerbia kid who is not even 20 and does a ****load of gear and nobody says crap to him..
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    I want the 5 minutes of my life back spent reading this thread...
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    I guess that with almost 1300 posts your time must be VERY VERY valuable..haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranARG View Post
    I guess that with almost 1300 posts your time must be VERY VERY valuable..haha
    These threads happen every week, the dude got good advice...
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    These threads happen every week, the dude got good advice...
    Maybe he did but people have too big of egos on here. I've been watching this thread and its retarded. There are holes in the advice too. Not everyone is perfect. There are nice ways to give advice and prick ways to give advice. I'd say start out nice and if needs be, be a bit more persuasive. But this usually is not needed. I encourage OP to not even answer the posts from flamers. Because half the time its opinions and egos/pride involved. Use good advice but ignore the people with attitudes
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post

    Maybe he did but people have too big of egos on here.I've been watching this thread and its retarded. There are holes in the advice too. Not everyone is perfect. There are nice ways to give advice and prick ways to give advice. I'd say start out nice and if needs be, be a bit more persuasive. But this usually is not needed. I encourage OP to not even answer the posts from flamers. Because half the time its opinions and egos/pride involved. Use good advice but ignore the people with attitudes
    On this we agree, still the OP's attitude didn't start things out on the right foot. IMO, if his training and diet were in order, he could reach his goals natty no problem.

    Show me a hard gainer and I'll show you someone who doesn't eat enough.

    People just get butt hurt a little too easy sometimes...
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    Sorry if I got off on the wrong foot with some people but I do believe in treat people the way you want to be treated. I never said anything negative until I got lit up for being a moron bc I eat all the time(most days over 3500 calories, and yes macros are dead on), train my ass off, and sleep 8 hours a night. IMHO I'm doing everything I can to make gains, but to others that have never met me, or have the slightest idea of how hard working a person I am, I'm doing absolutely nothing right in their eyes.

    For my original goals of recomp my results are decent I guess, but personally I feel its just 5 weeks of training showing minimal results. I had one day where I felt increbily strong. Thats it. If I am taking gear where the hell are the strength gains?
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    If your job is that physical, than you need to up your calories even more. With caloric surplus and a solid program, it's impossible not to gain weight. You might find you need 4500 to be in surplus.

    Bro, we get guys in here all the time, 150 lbs and want to start running gear. For the most part, the guys here will discourage 'newbs' ( don't take that personal) from jumping in.

    Here's an idea: if you're not gaining at 3500, eat normally and drink 1/2 gallon a day of 2% milk.
    That's another 1200 cals.

    You will gain weight...
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    If your job is that physical, than you need to up your calories even more. With caloric surplus and a solid program, it's impossible not to gain weight. You might find you need 4500 to be in surplus.

    Bro, we get guys in here all the time, 150 lbs and want to start running gear. For the most part, the guys here will discourage 'newbs' ( don't take that personal) from jumping in.

    Here's an idea: if you're not gaining at 3500, eat normally and drink 1/2 gallon a day of 2% milk.

    You will gain weight...
    I can agree with this. My metabolism is freaky at 27 it seems to be speeding up. All I worry about is makind sure I get enough protein. At least a gram per lb of target bodyweight and other than that I eat everything I can get my hands in. I do concrete and construction work 10-12 hours per day and so its pizza and hamburgers and beef and just tons of food. And I don't gain fat
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    My metabolism is freaky at 27 it seems to be speeding up.
    Wait until you're pushing 50

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    we'll all be cyborgs by then cmon now
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinytony View Post
    I can agree with this. My metabolism is freaky at 27 it seems to be speeding up. All I worry about is makind sure I get enough protein. At least a gram per lb of target bodyweight and other than that I eat everything I can get my hands in. I do concrete and construction work 10-12 hours per day and so its pizza and hamburgers and beef and just tons of food. And I don't gain fat
    So at some point do I just say fock it with all clean food and go calorie dense foods?
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    Quote Originally Posted by FranARG View Post
    There is this Xerbia kid who is not even 20 and does a ****load of gear and nobody says crap to him..
    That kid is a moron.
    He is 6'1 220 and 20 yrs old.
    He's running five different steroids and doesn't even squat, what ****ing joke.
    But some people you just can't argue with.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbeltmann View Post
    Sorry if I got off on the wrong foot with some people but I do believe in treat people the way you want to be treated. I never said anything negative until I got lit up for being a moron bc I eat all the time(most days over 3500 calories, and yes macros are dead on), train my ass off, and sleep 8 hours a night. IMHO I'm doing everything I can to make gains, but to others that have never met me, or have the slightest idea of how hard working a person I am, I'm doing absolutely nothing right in their eyes.

    For my original goals of recomp my results are decent I guess, but personally I feel its just 5 weeks of training showing minimal results. I had one day where I felt increbily strong. Thats it. If I am taking gear where the hell are the strength gains?
    Hey brother I apologize if I came off rude. Idk about gear can't help you there but if you want to get stronger you need to follow a strength program such as 5.3.1.

    Could you list what your height, weight, bf and macros actually are?

    Maybe I can help with those. Not saying you are incompetent, just saying another set of eyes always helps
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbeltmann View Post

    So at some point do I just say fock it with all clean food and go calorie dense foods?
    No need to go crazy, try the milk - I'll let you in on a little secret...milk is better than steroids...
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post

    No need to go crazy, try the milk - I'll let you in on a little secret...milk is better than steroids...
    amen
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    Quote Originally Posted by napalm View Post
    No need to go crazy, try the milk - I'll let you in on a little secret...milk is better than steroids...
    Lol I'll try anything twice! But seriously Im usually running around 25% fats, 35% protein and 40% carbs at ~3500 cal. Seriously starting to doubt that may not be enough carbs considering my metabolism and job. Currently at 176lbs, bf unknown but last check was around 10.4 and I'm leaner now by the eye test.
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    You guys are all full of S*$t bashing this guy with dead lift this and squat that. He is a hard gainer plain and simple. You can eat & lift perfect then take test E and anadrol till the cows come home and still not get huge. A guy I grew up with does no squats, no dead lift, hell 90% of his lifts are on machines. Yes is is a fing huge beast. Sorry but it is 80% genetics. Sure a proper diet, training and gear a huge but nothing will ever come close to what you where born with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehogsters View Post
    You guys are all full of S*$t bashing this guy with dead lift this and squat that. He is a hard gainer plain and simple. You can eat & lift perfect then take test E and anadrol till the cows come home and still not get huge. A guy I grew up with does no squats, no dead lift, hell 90% of his lifts are on machines. Yes is is a fing huge beast. Sorry but it is 80% genetics. Sure a proper diet, training and gear a huge but nothing will ever come close to what you where born with.
    This is how I feel mostly. Thats why there are footballs players that are shredded db's and there are freak rush LB. Some boys were just born with it. Yes I understand that BB will spend a lifetime training but I will never be that.
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    If you didnt gain on 40mgs of epi/100mgs lmg I would say your product was probably not very good. Even if you diet was horrible you still should of seen something from that stack. 100mgs of lmg should of had you feeling very full and definate weight gain by the 2nd week.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehogsters View Post
    You guys are all full of S*$t bashing this guy with dead lift this and squat that. He is a hard gainer plain and simple. You can eat & lift perfect then take test E and anadrol till the cows come home and still not get huge. A guy I grew up with does no squats, no dead lift, hell 90% of his lifts are on machines. Yes is is a fing huge beast. Sorry but it is 80% genetics. Sure a proper diet, training and gear a huge but nothing will ever come close to what you where born with.
    First off, let me be clear, in no way am I bashing this guy.

    I am helping him acquire gains by suggesting he deadlift and squat. Yes his numbers are low and yes it's because he had knee surgery, but if he's serious about getting big he needs to be doing these lifts.

    If you think you can get big without the two most important lifts, you're high as a kite.

    no offense but if your buddy only does machines, he is a puss-C
    You don't get big without squats and deads, unless you're abusing gear.
    And if you're abusing gear and not doing those lifts, you're not a man, period.
    I know one thing to be true in the world of training.

    "if you don't squat, you ain't squat"
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    "no offense but if your buddy only does machines, he is a puss-C
    You don't get big without squats and deads, unless you're abusing gear.
    And if you're abusing gear and not doing those lifts, you're not a man, period.
    I know one thing to be true in the world of training.

    "if you don't squat, you ain't squat""

    LoL ok tell that to all those body building trophies he has on the shelf. I know he has done squats but it has been years since he has. Don't get me wrong squats are great but my point is some people are so blessed that they don't have to do them to be huge.

    Did you ever watch 30 for 30? The Bo Jackson story was great. One of his best friend said he never lifted hardly EVER! Same thing for Steve McNair.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehogsters View Post
    You guys are all full of S*$t bashing this guy with dead lift this and squat that. He is a hard gainer plain and simple. You can eat & lift perfect then take test E and anadrol till the cows come home and still not get huge. A guy I grew up with does no squats, no dead lift, hell 90% of his lifts are on machines. Yes is is a fing huge beast. Sorry but it is 80% genetics. Sure a proper diet, training and gear a huge but nothing will ever come close to what you where born with.
    This is so wrong. Aas, HGH, slin, diet, training > genetics. If you can't get big with test and anadrol or whatever, you are doing it wrong.
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    Beltmann, do try the milk stuff. I am on epi and drinking around a quarter of galon of 2%milk a day, and it has helped me a lot, though I am not a hard gainer.
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    OP if you don't mind post up a typical day of eating, perhaps that will give us some insight into your program, maybe there is something that could be tweaked. Irregardless of diet and training you should have noticed certain things on cycle such as increased muscle hardness(this happens within days for me no matter the compound.) I suspect the product was junk but without a lab analysis there is no way to be sure. If you ran blood work and everything thing came back great, high test, low LDL, high HDL, and excellent liver values then I would venture the guess you got some bunk gear. Next time buy a reputable brand, shoot me a PM if you need to pick one. In the end there is always a chance that you simply do not respond to these compounds but I suspect this is not the case but who knows.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigflex0 View Post
    OP if you don't mind post up a typical day of eating, perhaps that will give us some insight into your program, maybe there is something that could be tweaked. Irregardless of diet and training you should have noticed certain things on cycle such as increased muscle hardness(this happens within days for me no matter the compound.) I suspect the product was junk but without a lab analysis there is no way to be sure. If you ran blood work and everything thing came back great, high test, low LDL, high HDL, and excellent liver values then I would venture the guess you got some bunk gear. Next time buy a reputable brand, shoot me a PM if you need to pick one. In the end there is always a chance that you simply do not respond to these compounds but I suspect this is not the case but who knows.
    I was actually going to post something earlier but my phone was acting crazy. Is there a possibility that by putting the bottle in my cooler that that could affect the potency? Haven't gotten any blood work done but I'm almost positive its either way underdosed or bunk. Diet is usually a bunch of oatmeal or cereal with a protein shake at 7, 930 ish is a giant sandwich I make, 1130-1200 yogurt and a bunch of almonds with some more shake, 230 another giant sandwich, 400 preworkout shake 530-6 post wo shake, 730 dinner (chicken, steak, sweet potatoes, etc) 930 bed time snack of cottage cheese or shake depending on what im feeling. Try to limit carbs to under 20g before bed to help with natural hgh pro. Obviously I change it up occasionally to break up the monotony but you get the idea. Not a bb diet but def one I figured I could stack mass on with. Honestly I'm just ready to take these last few pills tomorrow and start clomid on sat. Debating on how exactly to dose bc I don't want to waste it if I don't have to. Was originally planning on 100/50/50/50 with starting EOD on the 18th. Not so sure now. Maybe do 50/25/25/12.5 starting EOD on DAY 15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbeltmann View Post

    I was actually going to post something earlier but my phone was acting crazy. Is there a possibility that by putting the bottle in my cooler that that could affect the potency? Haven't gotten any blood work done but I'm almost positive its either way underdosed or bunk. Diet is usually a bunch of oatmeal or cereal with a protein shake at 7, 930 ish is a giant sandwich I make, 1130-1200 yogurt and a bunch of almonds with some more shake, 230 another giant sandwich, 400 preworkout shake 530-6 post wo shake, 730 dinner (chicken, steak, sweet potatoes, etc) 930 bed time snack of cottage cheese or shake depending on what im feeling. Try to limit carbs to under 20g before bed to help with natural hgh pro. Obviously I change it up occasionally to break up the monotony but you get the idea. Not a bb diet but def one I figured I could stack mass on with. Honestly I'm just ready to take these last few pills tomorrow and start clomid on sat. Debating on how exactly to dose bc I don't want to waste it if I don't have to. Was originally planning on 100/50/50/50 with starting EOD on the 18th. Not so sure now. Maybe do 50/25/25/12.5 starting EOD on DAY 15
    I don't think you're eating enough.

    How big are these big sandwiches?
    Please explain one on detail.

    Eat eggs in the morning. Every morning. Get ample carbs for breakfast too.
    Don't be afraid to eat fruit

    eat more whole food and less shakes.

    Eat sooner after your post without shake... Try 45 minutes to an hour after the shake.

    Try eating red meat and peanut butter before bed. Add carbs in as needed, I think you need more carbs personally.


    You can call this bro science if you want but it's worked for me
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post

    I don't think you're eating enough.

    How big are these big sandwiches?
    Please explain one on detail.

    Eat eggs in the morning. Every morning. Get ample carbs for breakfast too.
    Don't be afraid to eat fruit

    eat more whole food and less shakes.

    Eat sooner after your post without shake... Try 45 minutes to an hour after the shake.

    Try eating red meat and peanut butter before bed. Add carbs in as needed, I think you need more carbs personally.
    Like he said.. I find I feel much stronger and muscles much more full when I'm heavy in the red meat and carbs. Better growth and better feeling in your guts.
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    Quote Originally Posted by aceroni View Post
    I don't think you're eating enough.

    How big are these big sandwiches?
    Please explain one on detail.

    Eat eggs in the morning. Every morning. Get ample carbs for breakfast too.
    Don't be afraid to eat fruit

    eat more whole food and less shakes.

    Eat sooner after your post without shake... Try 45 minutes to an hour after the shake.

    Try eating red meat and peanut butter before bed. Add carbs in as needed, I think you need more carbs personally.


    You can call this bro science if you want but it's worked for me
    Thanks for the ideas. Sammys are ~850 cal. All lean meat, cheese and mayo on double protein bread. Shakes are my homade blend of cyto carb and whey. Each shake is 63g c, 54g p, 4g fat. I do admit I need to get better with fruit tho. So steak/beef will be better than chicken?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbeltmann View Post

    Thanks for the ideas. Sammys are ~850 cal. All lean meat, cheese and mayo on double protein bread. Shakes are my homade blend of cyto carb and whey. Each shake is 63g c, 54g p, 4g fat. I do admit I need to get better with fruit tho. So steak/beef will be better than chicken?
    No chicken is good but I suggest eating red meat after your post workout shake.
    Still eat chicken too. Replace a shake with chicken and some carbs, add red meat to your cottage cheese meal
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    Well I started the first day of clomid. Stuff doesn't taste very good lol so I just take it with some milk. Have a feeling I'll see better results from clomid istead of this bs product. Idk why its such garbage if its 100% legal to sell ph. Will be running clomid 25mg/day for 3 weeks.

    I also ordered 4 bottles of super dmz. I won't be starting another cycle for awhile but wanted to get my hands on some in the case it may get banned. 2 are for my buddy I lift with and I might sell the last one to my roomate. Idk yet. If I really like it and it does get banned I'll probably just keep the last one for myself. Thanks to everyone thats has offered advice and helped me. I'll continue to give updates occasionally.
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    well I'm almost 2 weeks into clomid and no negative sides. Downstairs is working just fine. Maintaining weight at 178 but seems like a little more water than I'd like. Probably start formadrol or erase at one cap a day and see how that works. Only bummer is I tore my rotator cuff slightly carrying a 20ft ext ladder by myself. Nothing major but haven't been able to do **** besides work and leg days. Going to be starting 5x5 training on Mon if the shoulder will allow. I'm excited to go back to a 3 day split so I'll have more time to do other things. Any tips, advice, things to expect, etc while doing 5x5 training? My only concern is if I'll be able to recover quick enough to go every other day (mon, wed, fri) legs are my biggest concern bc of my job.
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