First cycle of RAW(epi and lmg)

[jbeltmann]

First post here and looking for a little help and advice. Ok here's a little backround about myself. Been lifting off and on for several years but the last year has been pretty intense. I'm a classic ectomorph and when I started a year ago I weighed about 150 because I had a stress induced ulcer from marital problems. Tried several test boosters like daa, beast, core test, natadrol with decent results. Wasn't exactly what I was hoping for so I decided to go ph. Natadrol was probably the best before I tried raw. I was eating like a beast on natadrol and went up to 184 but got pretty sick in Feb and Mar. Dropped down to 172 and now on RaW I've been able to lean out a little more while adding 3 lbs. I'm currently 175 5'10.5" now at roughly 10% bf. Diet is pretty clean and consuming roughly 3000-3500 calories a day.

On to the RaW cycle. Each cap has 10 mg of epi and 25mg of max lmg. Sounded like a decent first ph and wasn't sure what to expect. Started taking 2 caps/day for the first week, up'ed to 3 caps/day til week 3, and then went to 4/day until the second bottle that I split with a friend is gone. Little over 4 weeks in now with a few days left and I'm not really seeing the results I was hoping for. I leaned out from this but didn't really see much with strength gains or mass. Will be taking beast super test for 2 weeks, then core test the next two weeks along with formadrol as needed for pct. Liver support was run before, during, and will continue after. Don't really feel I need a serm because I don't think I'm anywhere near shut down.

Thoughts to why I'm not seeing the results? Should I consider a serm even though I'm not shut down? Any tweaks to pct?

Thinking about running super dmz somewhere down the line because I was not very impressed with RaW and think dmz is much stronger and more along the lines of what I'm looking for. Will more than likely run a normal recommended cycle at 2 caps a day along with support supps. Will def get a serm if I go this route tho. Seems people get shut down pretty easily on dmz since its so potent. Thanks in advance for any replies.

 

[stamp_on_kids]

Christ where to began. You aren't seeing results for the same reason you werent seeing results before you started using steroids, its a diet or training issue. For how tall you are you should be able to get to 184 natty easy if you know what you are doing with your diet and training. You aren't shut down? Post the blood work you had done that shows your test levels are where they were precycle.

 

[jbeltmann]

Thanks for the kind reply tough guy. If you actually read my post i did hit 184 natty but i got sick. I leaned out du e to how hard i was training in addition to my strenuous job. I've cycled between 3,4, and 5 day splits and have been seeing great results with five days a week so i highly doubt you have any idea how hard i train. I'm no noob so I'd appreciate the courtesy of respect. Just because i have one post doesn't mean i don't know ****. Apparently eating a clean 3500 calories a day and lifting hard 5 days a week is bad training. And since i work at a gym i clearly have no idea how any of the equipment works.

As far as being shut down that is just my personal opinion due to knowing my body better than anyone else. I'll fax my blood work over to you so you can hide behind your keyboard and talk smack. Thanks for the advise douche nozzle.

 

[OnionKnight]

Thanks for the kind reply tough guy. If you actually read my post i did hit 184 natty but i got sick. I leaned out du e to how hard i was training in addition to my strenuous job. I've cycled between 3,4, and 5 day splits and have been seeing great results with five days a week so i highly doubt you have any idea how hard i train. I'm no noob so I'd appreciate the courtesy of respect. Just because i have one post doesn't mean i don't know ****.

no hes right. if you didnt see results from 4 caps/day at those doses, then you ****ed up with your training and nutrition. dmz wont do anything either until you dial those down

 

[jbeltmann]

no hes right. if you didnt see results from 4 caps/day at those doses, then you ****ed up with your training and nutrition. dmz wont do anything either until you dial those down

I did see results but nothing exceptional. I personally thought it was a very weak setup for a ph. I only have been taking 4 caps/day for a little over a week. Even at that dosage I've never felt the "on"switch per se. Like i said it help with cutting somewhat but was going for more recomp with that caloric intake. This ph was purchased at a brick and mortar nutrition store so i don't know if that means anything as far as the quality of said product.

 

[stamp_on_kids]

Thanks for the kind reply tough guy. If you actually read my post i did hit 184 natty but i got sick. I leaned out du e to how hard i was training in addition to my strenuous job. I've cycled between 3,4, and 5 day splits and have been seeing great results with five days a week so i highly doubt you have any idea how hard i train. I'm no noob so I'd appreciate the courtesy of respect. Just because i have one post doesn't mean i don't know ****. Apparently eating a clean 3500 calories a day and lifting hard 5 days a week is bad training. And since i work at a gym i clearly have no idea how any of the equipment works.

As far as being shut down that is just my personal opinion due to knowing my body better than anyone else. I'll fax my blood work over to you so you can hide behind your keyboard and talk smack. Thanks for the advise douche nozzle.

I meant you got to 184 with the natadrol. Total cals don't mean **** if you aren't hitting the macros you need. 5 days a week doesn't mean **** either, if you aren't doing enough you could be under training, too much and over training. 30 or 40 mg is plenty although I am not a fan of max lmg. Don't be so sensitive

 

[jbeltmann]

I meant you got to 184 with the natadrol. Total cals don't mean **** if you aren't hitting the macros you need. 5 days a week doesn't mean **** either, if you aren't doing enough you could be under training, too much and over training. 30 or 40 mg is plenty although I am not a fan of max lmg. Don't be so sensitive

I'm not a body builder and I don't think having my macros within a few % points is incredibly important. I eat very clean and consume more than enough protein, carbs and healthy fats. I was hoping to get some objective views and not flamed because I didn't post every single little detail. My split is M-F. Mon is chest, Tues back, Wed legs, Thurs tris and shoulders, Fri bi and rear delts. Usually do a couple warm up sets and do 3-4 working sets doing 4 exercises per body part. I feel thats a good balance that doesn't let me overtrain. Abs are done multiple times througout the week and usually are done with the people I train. Needless to say regardless of my diet I should've felt more from this cycle than I did. Never felt that "on" switch like most people talk about after a couple weeks. Sorry about blowing up but I hate when people assume things and flame instead of asking the question to advise accordingly. Just trying to figure out why the effectiveness why so mild. Seems like I'm getting some of the sides but its not really kicking in as expected hence the reason I would be willing to try super dmz. I can still get a hold of a serm if you think it would be appropriate but I can tell I have no change in my testes size. Very little to no affect on libido which is never an issue anyways. I just don't want to waste money on a serm since I don't feel shut down at all. IMO this cycle was extremely mild and maybe my body just didn't respond that well to these particular compounds.

 

[OnionKnight]

I'm not a body builder and I don't think having my macros within a few % points is incredibly important. I eat very clean and consume more than enough protein, carbs and healthy fats. I was hoping to get some objective views and not flamed because I didn't post every single little detail. My split is M-F. Mon is chest, Tues back, Wed legs, Thurs tris and shoulders, Fri bi and rear delts. Usually do a couple warm up sets and do 3-4 working sets doing 4 exercises per body part. I feel thats a good balance that doesn't let me overtrain. Abs are done multiple times througout the week and usually are done with the people I train. Needless to say regardless of my diet I should've felt more from this cycle than I did. Never felt that "on" switch like most people talk about after a couple weeks. Sorry about blowing up but I hate when people assume things and flame instead of asking the question to advise accordingly. Just trying to figure out why the effectiveness why so mild. Seems like I'm getting some of the sides but its not really kicking in as expected hence the reason I would be willing to try super dmz. I can still get a hold of a serm if you think it would be appropriate but I can tell I have no change in my testes size. Very little to no affect on libido which is never an issue anyways. I just don't want to waste money on a serm since I don't feel shut down at all. IMO this cycle was extremely mild and maybe my body just didn't respond that well to these particular compounds.

you have 4 days of upper body and 1 day lower. thats not even remotely balanced. and by "kick in" people refer to the noticable increase in strength. if you arnt strength training or playing with any proper progression scheme, then you wont notice it at all

 

[aceroni]

I hate to say it OP but these two are right. If you can't hit 200 lb at 5'10.5" natty you're clearly not doing something right. Why don't you train for a few months without sups and if you're progressing well, then add in what you plan to take.

Your diet and training are the cake, hormones are just the icing. That's it

Let me ask you this: how much do you squat how much do you deadlift? What are your training goals?

If you don't do the above two lifts, and are contemplating hormones, just quit now

 

[jbeltmann]

I hate to say it OP but these two are right. If you can't hit 200 lb at 5'10.5" natty you're clearly not doing something right. Why don't you train for a few months without sups and if you're progressing well, then add in what you plan to take.

Your diet and training are the cake, hormones are just the icing. That's it

Let me ask you this: how much do you squat how much do you deadlift? What are your training goals?


If you don't do the above two lifts, and are contemplating hormones, just quit now

I don't usually do 1rm lifts in legs but usually rep 250 with squats and 300 on dl. Also do bb lunges around 185-225 depending on target rep range. Legs def aren't my strong suit and had knee surgury about a year and a half ago. Lost lots of strength due to that injury. Nothing spectacular but its coming along. Listen guys its not like I haven't been training for years and don't know wtf I'm doing. I'm 32 and was active army so I'm no stranger to fitness. I'm just an ectomorph that is pretty strong for my size. Hitting 200 natty for me would take years of work. I only want to hit 185 at 7-8% body fat. Not lofty goals for most but for me being a hard gainer it is.

 

[OnionKnight]

fyi youre irritating everyone more by throwing around hard gainer and ectomorph too much. those are just excuses 99% of the time

get on a better routine, learn progression, and play solo epistane for 5-6 weeks. youll feel the difference if youve been trackign progression properly, not just going by ear every day and running the movements. thats pretty much pointless

 

[jbeltmann]

fyi youre irritating everyone more by throwing around hard gainer and ectomorph too much. those are just excuses 99% of the time

Dude I'm a trainer. I know wtf I'm doing. Trust me I hear people all the time say they eat all the time but when I do a fitness evaluation its a joke. I understand where you are coming from. Trust me my diet and training are on point. I didn't come here to get criticized about training and diet.

 

[OnionKnight]

Dude I'm a trainer. I know wtf I'm doing. Trust me I hear people all the time say they eat all the time but when I do a fitness evaluation its a joke. I understand where you are coming from. Trust me my diet and training are on point. I didn't come here to get criticized about training and diet.

im a trainer too certified by the nasm. the certs are a joke, all you really learn is how to evaluate and handle fat people and old people. doesnt mean you know anything when it comes to training and diet

if you truly are an ectomorph, then prove it by throwing up a picture for everyone. but you better be 6'+ with long ass fingers, arms, and legs and a narrow head

 

[joeblow1]

fyi youre irritating everyone more by throwing around hard gainer and ectomorph too much. those are just excuses 99% of the time

get on a better routine, learn progression, and play solo epistane for 5-6 weeks. youll feel the difference if youve been trackign progression properly, not just going by ear every day and running the movements. thats pretty much pointless

I completely agree. I hear that bs all the time. There is no such thing as a hard gainer or big boned people. They are just skinny guys who don't eat enough, and fat people who eat too much. In both cases all you need to do is improve the diet and training. People like to make excuses when they don't put forth enough effort to succeed.

 

[jbeltmann]

Lol I hear ya with certs being a joke. Seen plenty of trainers that don't look the part. I just took a pic on thurs on my phone. Can I upload that somehow?

 

[jbeltmann]

you have 4 days of upper body and 1 day lower. thats not even remotely balanced. and by "kick in" people refer to the noticable increase in strength. if you arnt strength training or playing with any proper progression scheme, then you wont notice it at all

What would be a proper progression scheme be in your opinion?

 

[OnionKnight]

depends on the routine. i do strength training so my progression is a 2.5% increase in weight every week while maintaining 5 reps. but you have to track workouts to keep consistancy. yea its ridiculously simple, but youd be surprised at the amount of fools in this world that just run the movements every day

 

[jbeltmann]

depends on the routine. i do strength training so my progression is a 2.5% increase in weight every week while maintaining 5 reps. but you have to track workouts to keep consistancy. yea its ridiculously simple, but youd be surprised at the amount of fools in this world that just run the movements every day

I don't really go by %. I always up weight until I'm between 6-12 reps. Basically the same principle but just a little diff. I do up weight and if I cant that week I try to do more reps at the same weight. Any way I can post a pic from my phone? I tried but either droids suck for that or the browser wont let me do it

 

[tinytony]

depends on the routine. i do strength training so my progression is a 2.5% increase in weight every week while maintaining 5 reps. but you have to track workouts to keep consistancy. yea its ridiculously simple, but youd be surprised at the amount of fools in this world that just run the movements every day

Like me. I just lift big weights some days and little weights other days lol

 

[OnionKnight]

Like me. I just lift big weights some days and little weights other days lol

bool**** youre tracking every workout in your log lol

 

[tinytony]

Haha yeah now but I don't even look back at them. That's only for you guys to follow. I never recorded anything up until my cycle. I just have numbers in my head and I try for a pump and go entirely by feel. If my muscles don't feel it, I change up just like that

 

[stamp_on_kids]

fyi youre irritating everyone more by throwing around hard gainer and ectomorph too much. those are just excuses 99% of the time

get on a better routine, learn progression, and play solo epistane for 5-6 weeks. youll feel the difference if youve been trackign progression properly, not just going by ear every day and running the movements. thats pretty much pointless

Quoted for truth.

 

[jbeltmann]

So basically this has turned into ectomorphs aren't limited genetically thread. Listen I have over 5 years of lifting exp and this last year is where I actually focused on diet much more. Yes I did make some gains in size and lean mass but only about 5 more lbs. I suppose I do have lower bf and that is a good thing but you guys make it seem like I'm a moron because I cant add mass easily. To hit 185 at 7% bf is a ridiculously hard endever for me to achieve. I'm looking for any edge and thought now was as good a time as any to try a ph. Its not like I just started lifting 6 months ago and hit up a supp store saying I wanna get HUUUGGGEEEE lol. I have a pretty good understanding of many exercises, diet, and importance of rest.

 

[aceroni]

Not trying to bash you bro but get back after the squats and deads. Focus on getting stronger on these lifts and you'll add quality mass to your frame. I promise.

And no gaining size isn't easy I agree.
5'8" 200lb 13% body fat here. Been training for eight years started at 105lb

Inb4 e-statting

 

[stamp_on_kids]

If you want to get the thread back on track....

Run a serm and get bloodwork. Running Clomid for 4 weeks won't hurt you on the slim chance your epi was underdosed or bunk. Bloodwork is the only true way of knowing your hpta has recovered. Also wait the appropriate amount of time before running your next cycle.

 

[jbeltmann]

Not trying to bash you bro but get back after the squats and deads. Focus on getting stronger on these lifts and you'll add quality mass to your frame. I promise.

And no gaining size isn't easy I agree.
5'8" 200lb 13% body fat here. Been training for eight years started at 105lb

Inb4 e-statting

Thanks for the advice and not being condescending. My legs are areas I want to improve and its not like I don't train them. I tore my miniscus at work and lost lots of time and strength due to that. I still don't understand the weight diff between this and natadrol. Diet is the same yet I'm struggling to put on mass with a ph?!?!?! It doesn't make any sense to me. Is it possible that my body just didn't respond to this ph cycle and that I'm not an idiot like everyone else thinks? I know I'm training hard and eating clean 6-8 times a day so its frustrating to hear people on these boards just assume "dude you're not doing it right!?!?" Regardless of ones opinions on diet and training I should've felt this ph at the dosages I was taking them at but I felt literally nothing. Seems like I'm just getting sides from time to time and none of the good bennys. I was hoping that someone could explain this to mean and not slam my diet and training program. Honestly I think this particular product is garbage either bc they aren't telling the truth of what compounds are in it or the quality control messed up.

 

[jbeltmann]

If you want to get the thread back on track....

Run a serm and get bloodwork. Running Clomid for 4 weeks won't hurt you on the slim chance your epi was underdosed or bunk. Bloodwork is the only true way of knowing your hpta has recovered. Also wait the appropriate amount of time before running your next cycle.

I'm not opposed to running a serm and could certainly do so. I stated I don't think I'm shut down at all earlier bc a, the product doesn't seem to be working, and b, my nuts are huge like always. Zero atrophy. And yes I plan on waiting for the next cycle. I have researched things for at least 3 months so its not like im just diving into ph lol. I originally was going to do a solo epi run at 45mg/day but this experience at 40 kinda turned me off from this ph. My doc was curious to see what my bloodwork is when I talked to him about a month ago right when I started. I read and researched for months but wanted to hear it straight from my doc(is also big into lifting). Said my run looks decent along with pct. If I have issues to come in and get bloods done. I can't justify spending 60 bucks on clomid just bc someone told me thats what you have to do. I've seen and read plenty of instances when people do a 4 week cycle and they don't get totally shut down. Not saying thats the case for everyone but Im pretty damn sure Im not shutdown. Even if one was shut down people can and do bounce back with otc pct. Obviously thats gotta be a well thought out pct but nonetheless they do still work. Its frustrating hearing blanket statements when everybodys bodies are diff. What works for one may not for the next. Just saying.

 

[OnionKnight]

Is it possible that my body just didn't respond to this ph cycle and that I'm not an idiot like everyone else thinks?.

no. but it is possible that you took a stupid stack and had underdosed epi until the last week and thats why you didnt notice anything. if you run it solo at a good dose for a longer time, youll get better results. think about it, you went a whole week at 10mg/day. of course that means a serm would be handy if you decide to do a serious run, not some supplement store ****ty otc pct. if you knew the mechanics behind pct products, youd understand that otc products are just test boosters and dont really do ****. clomid at its absolute worst wuld give you a better test boost than those products

and another reason everyone thinks youre an idiot is because you bought the raw stack in the first place, and an otc pct from a store. so its retty obvious that you didnt do any research seeing you bought a product from a youtube video. ptherwise youd have known that epi or halo for 6 weeks is the way to go


http://tunedsports.com/designer-steroids/the-epistane-havoc-informative-bible/

http://tunedsports.com/designer-steroids/the-halodrol-h-drol-informative-bible/

good places to start so read over them and pick one. both very good first run cmpounds for 6 weeks, not 4. you cut this one short and underdosed it

 

[stamp_on_kids]

Do you want to know why people including me jumped on your posts? It's cause its frustrating for us when noobs come in thinking they can reinvent the wheel with three months of research. I have been learning and studying for 10 years, same with the other guys who posted in this thread, you just need to realize that while 3 months may seem like a long time, you don't know as much as many of these other posters. I am done with this thread.

 

[superbeast668]

Dude I'm a trainer. I know wtf I'm doing. Trust me I hear people all the time say they eat all the time but when I do a fitness evaluation its a joke. I understand where you are coming from. Trust me my diet and training are on point. I didn't come here to get criticized about training and diet.

im a trainer too certified by the nasm. the certs are a joke, all you really learn is how to evaluate and handle fat people and old people. doesnt mean you know anything when it comes to training and diet

if you truly are an ectomorph, then prove it by throwing up a picture for everyone. but you better be 6'+ with long ass fingers, arms, and legs and a narrow head

Omg congrats your certified trainers! Never seen a local gym trainer worth two ****s. Most are fat and in worse shape then clients, some are stringy and then there's the bloofy water buffalos that think their big sh!t from all the dbol.

At least onion has a decent understanding of wtf he's doing from all of his posts I've seen.

Not trying to bash you bro but get back after the squats and deads. Focus on getting stronger on these lifts and you'll add quality mass to your frame. I promise.

And no gaining size isn't easy I agree.
5'8" 200lb 13% body fat here. Been training for eight years started at 105lb

Inb4 e-statting

Dude best advice in here.

I'll add in, op, get off the juice. I'm a half inch shorter than you. Didn't touch gear until 210lbs @10%.im a half inch shorter. Stating "body types" is pretty out dated. We all train to look ecto/ You really should get A serm for pct. Lmg isn't a kiddie compound it's a failed contraceptive. You understand stuff like that is designed to make your junk stop working right? How much mass did you expect to gain off a 4 week ds cycle? Drugs at standard doses don't work miracles. Even with drugs it doesn't happen over night

. You mentioned you were trying to recomp and gained 3 lbs. pretty good imo. Depending on your deficit it explains strength too. How many dudes maintain all strength in a deficit? On gear? I'm struggling to hold strength in a 500 cal deficit. I haven't gained any body weight. I'm using around a gram a week anabolics with trt test.

You sound like a whiney f*cking kid wanting it now. Act like a grown ass man. Be patient. Work your ass off for what you want and stop acting like a spoiled brat. Don't ask advice in a forum if you think you won't like the answer.

 

[jbeltmann]

Omg congrats your certified trainers! Never seen a local gym trainer worth two ****s. Most are fat and in worse shape then clients, some are stringy and then there's the bloofy water buffalos that think their big sh!t from all the dbol.

At least onion has a decent understanding of wtf he's doing from all of his posts I've seen.

Dude best advice in here.

I'll add in, op, get off the juice. I'm a half inch shorter than you. Didn't touch gear until 210lbs @10%.im a half inch shorter. Stating "body types" is pretty out dated. We all train to look ecto/ You really should get A serm for pct. Lmg isn't a kiddie compound it's a failed contraceptive. You understand stuff like that is designed to make your junk stop working right? How much mass did you expect to gain off a 4 week ds cycle? Drugs at standard doses don't work miracles. Even with drugs it doesn't happen over night

. You mentioned you were trying to recomp and gained 3 lbs. pretty good imo. Depending on your deficit it explains strength too. How many dudes maintain all strength in a deficit? On gear? I'm struggling to hold strength in a 500 cal deficit. I haven't gained any body weight. I'm using around a gram a week anabolics with trt test.

You sound like a whiney f*cking kid wanting it now. Act like a grown ass man. Be patient. Work your ass off for what you want and stop acting like a spoiled brat. Don't ask advice in a forum if you think you won't like the answer.

I'm not claiming trainers know everything. Get off your focking soap box. I know plenty about hard work. If you would've simply read my post you would've gathered that i have been lifting for over 5 years, 8 years if you count the army, and the last year I have dialed my diet. I've done plenty of research. I am certainly not some whiney bitch kid. I'm 32 and have done many things that most only dream of achieving. I came here to hopefully get some answers but people rather flame than learn to read. And I didn't cut calories at all for recomp I just do ten more min of cardio a day. My day job is hvac and I train at night. My day job is pretty strenuous and burns off some of my calories but idk how to eat more calories aside from doing weight gainers.

 

[jbeltmann]

no. but it is possible that you took a stupid stack and had underdosed epi until the last week and thats why you didnt notice anything. if you run it solo at a good dose for a longer time, youll get better results. think about it, you went a whole week at 10mg/day. of course that means a serm would be handy if you decide to do a serious run, not some supplement store ****ty otc pct. if you knew the mechanics behind pct products, youd understand that otc products are just test boosters and dont really do ****. clomid at its absolute worst wuld give you a better test boost than those products

and another reason everyone thinks youre an idiot is because you bought the raw stack in the first place, and an otc pct from a store. so its retty obvious that you didnt do any research seeing you bought a product from a youtube video. ptherwise youd have known that epi or halo for 6 weeks is the way to go



good places to start so read over them and pick one. both very good first run cmpounds for 6 weeks, not 4. you cut this one short and underdosed it

I bought a ph from a store so I'm stupid now? And all the stuff the I have for pct is stuff I've accumulated from other purchases over time. Very rarely do I buy things from stores bc its so expensive. The RaW pct is a joke. That is why I just made my own with mostly the things I had laying around. I've read all the bibles, numerous threads on here, and a ****load on other forums. I post here bc I thought this was the best site info wise and member wise but apparently everyone is just an elitist ******* with poor reading comprehension skills and severe hate towards what they think are noobs.

Edit- Didn't realize taking 30 mg of epi was considered underdosing? Thought 40-50 was the sweet spot for most but many see results at 30/day. I didn't buy this bc of some video lol. I did some research and they had a sale on this product. Dropped from 100 t0 50/bottle. I'll be running this 5 weeks total so not that much diff than your 6 that you recommended. If I order some liquid clomid will you guys back off a little? Everyone comes off like I know absolutely nothing and assume the worst while putting themselves up on this pedastal

 

[jbeltmann]

Ok I'm just going to order clomid. Would there be any benefit to adding letrozol, tamoxifen, and/or torem? I originally planned on using just clomid at the beginning of my cycle but figured it wasn't working and didn't have the need to run one.

 

[joeblow1]

Ok I'm just going to order clomid. Would there be any benefit to adding letrozol, tamoxifen, and/or torem? I originally planned on using just clomid at the beginning of my cycle but figured it wasn't working and didn't have the need to run one.

Use clomid in pct. don't ever use letro unless you have confirmed that you have gyno. It's way to strong to use for gyno prevention. You could also use torem in pct. I don't recommend nolva. Some like it but I don't and feel its inferior to clomid or torem for pct. and adex or aromasin work great for gyno prevention so therefore nolva is useless IMO. I wouldn't waste my money on it.

 

[OnionKnight]

I bought a ph from a store so I'm stupid now? And all the stuff the I have for pct is stuff I've accumulated from other purchases over time. Very rarely do I buy things from stores bc its so expensive. The RaW pct is a joke. That is why I just made my own with mostly the things I had laying around. I've read all the bibles, numerous threads on here, and a ****load on other forums. I post here bc I thought this was the best site info wise and member wise but apparently everyone is just an elitist ******* with poor reading comprehension skills and severe hate towards what they think are noobs.

Edit- Didn't realize taking 30 mg of epi was considered underdosing? Thought 40-50 was the sweet spot for most but many see results at 30/day. I didn't buy this bc of some video lol. I did some research and they had a sale on this product. Dropped from 100 t0 50/bottle. I'll be running this 5 weeks total so not that much diff than your 6 that you recommended. If I order some liquid clomid will you guys back off a little? Everyone comes off like I know absolutely nothing and assume the worst while putting themselves up on this pedastal

you ran epi at 20mg for 2 weeks and then 30mg for 1 week. epi normaly takes about 3 weeks to notice any effects. you low dosed it for 2 weeks and cut the cycle to 4-5 weeks. either you ran out of time, or the product was crap just like the company

and if you read numerous threads, youd have known raw sucks. we come off as elitists because you wernt listening and kept making dum excuses

 

[liftstrong]

I don't usually do 1rm lifts in legs but usually rep 250 with squats and 300 on dl. Also do bb lunges around 185-225 depending on target rep range. Legs def aren't my strong suit and had knee surgury about a year and a half ago. Lost lots of strength due to that injury. Nothing spectacular but its coming along. Listen guys its not like I haven't been training for years and don't know wtf I'm doing. I'm 32 and was active army so I'm no stranger to fitness. I'm just an ectomorph that is pretty strong for my size. Hitting 200 natty for me would take years of work. I only want to hit 185 at 7-8% body fat. Not lofty goals for most but for me being a hard gainer it is.

you have been training for years and only pull 300lb? my girl friend can pull 300! STFU EAT LIFT SLEEP you dont need steroids

 

[liftstrong]

Lol I hear ya with certs being a joke. Seen plenty of trainers that don't look the part. I just took a pic on thurs on my phone. Can I upload that somehow?

some of the best trainer in the world dont "look the part" Mike Burgener is one of the best Oly lifting coaches there is but doesnt "look the part"

 

[FranARG]

I think you underdosed the epi. I am on my first week on epi, and I am already seeing results. Modest results, but they are there only a week into cycle. I probably think my diet has helped because I am eating way more than I was eating. I am running epi at 40mg a day, since day 2, and already look leaner (I can appreciate it and other people as well) and gained 3 pounds.So, again, I think you underdosed the epi.Finally, im glad you are going to run a serm.

 

[jbeltmann]

you have been training for years and only pull 300lb? my girl friend can pull 300! STFU EAT LIFT SLEEP you dont need steroids

You clearly didn't read that i had knee surgery and lost lots of time to work on legs due to said injury

 

[jbeltmann]

No i ran it at 2 caps a day for week one then up ed it to 3/day till week 3. I've been at 4/day since then and have 5 days left. 5 weeks total. Personally i think its just a ****ty product bc my training and diet are on point. Taking 100mg of lmg and 40mg of epi i should be feeling it come on pretty strong but its incredibly weak.

 

[liftstrong]

You clearly didn't read that i had knee surgery and lost lots of time to work on legs due to said injury

"I had an ACL reconstruction done. The surgeon used semitendinosus tendon for the operation. rehab was a bitch. I didn't notice any major improvements until I started squatting with moderate weight. I started squatting with 135 lbs. about 3 months after the surgery and was back to squatting my regular weight about 10 - 12 months later. Four years later later, I'm squatting significantly more weight than before the injury. There is no pain in the knee when I squat below parallel. When I try to go ass to the ground I do feel some stiffness in the joint. "

you can make excuses or you can make progress

 

[jbeltmann]

"I had an ACL reconstruction done. The surgeon used semitendinosus tendon for the operation. rehab was a bitch. I didn't notice any major improvements until I started squatting with moderate weight. I started squatting with 135 lbs. about 3 months after the surgery and was back to squatting my regular weight about 10 - 12 months later. Four years later later, I'm squatting significantly more weight than before the injury. There is no pain in the knee when I squat below parallel. When I try to go ass to the ground I do feel some stiffness in the joint. "

you can make excuses or you can make progress

I get what you're saying. Initially it was physical, but at the beginning of training it was mental. Not easy to overcome that block. Trust me I'm not happy with my progress yet but I was just trying to shed some light on the situation as to why those numbers aren't higher. I train my ass off to get back to 250 for reps with squats but I'm plateauing and switching up my routine. I'm here for advise, not to make excuses so i do appreciate every ones posts, just not necessarily in the manner some may word it. I've seen plenty of guys smaller and younger than me but no one gives them flak. I guess i don't understand why some members were trigger happy with the insults. Yes i have plenty to learn. That's why we're all here.

 

[FranARG]

There is this Xerbia kid who is not even 20 and does a ****load of gear and nobody says crap to him..

 

[napalm]

I want the 5 minutes of my life back spent reading this thread...

 

[FranARG]

I guess that with almost 1300 posts your time must be VERY VERY valuable..haha

 

[napalm]

I guess that with almost 1300 posts your time must be VERY VERY valuable..haha

These threads happen every week, the dude got good advice...

 

[tinytony]

These threads happen every week, the dude got good advice...

Maybe he did but people have too big of egos on here. I've been watching this thread and its retarded. There are holes in the advice too. Not everyone is perfect. There are nice ways to give advice and prick ways to give advice. I'd say start out nice and if needs be, be a bit more persuasive. But this usually is not needed. I encourage OP to not even answer the posts from flamers. Because half the time its opinions and egos/pride involved. Use good advice but ignore the people with attitudes

 

[napalm]

Maybe he did but people have too big of egos on here.I've been watching this thread and its retarded. There are holes in the advice too. Not everyone is perfect. There are nice ways to give advice and prick ways to give advice. I'd say start out nice and if needs be, be a bit more persuasive. But this usually is not needed. I encourage OP to not even answer the posts from flamers. Because half the time its opinions and egos/pride involved. Use good advice but ignore the people with attitudes

On this we agree, still the OP's attitude didn't start things out on the right foot. IMO, if his training and diet were in order, he could reach his goals natty no problem.

Show me a hard gainer and I'll show you someone who doesn't eat enough.

People just get butt hurt a little too easy sometimes...

 

[jbeltmann]

Sorry if I got off on the wrong foot with some people but I do believe in treat people the way you want to be treated. I never said anything negative until I got lit up for being a moron bc I eat all the time(most days over 3500 calories, and yes macros are dead on), train my ass off, and sleep 8 hours a night. IMHO I'm doing everything I can to make gains, but to others that have never met me, or have the slightest idea of how hard working a person I am, I'm doing absolutely nothing right in their eyes.

For my original goals of recomp my results are decent I guess, but personally I feel its just 5 weeks of training showing minimal results. I had one day where I felt increbily strong. Thats it. If I am taking gear where the hell are the strength gains?

 

[napalm]

If your job is that physical, than you need to up your calories even more. With caloric surplus and a solid program, it's impossible not to gain weight. You might find you need 4500 to be in surplus.

Bro, we get guys in here all the time, 150 lbs and want to start running gear. For the most part, the guys here will discourage 'newbs' ( don't take that personal) from jumping in.

Here's an idea: if you're not gaining at 3500, eat normally and drink 1/2 gallon a day of 2% milk.
That's another 1200 cals.

You will gain weight...