[GetBig1221]

Hey everyone,

I often read these forums and do as much research as possible. Recently, I have done countless research on Epistane since a few of my friends had some great results. However, they're not the sharpest tools in the shed. Therefore, I take everything they say with a grain of salt. I have put together a cycle and I would like to know if I'm missing anything or if it looks good since this is my first cycle. Thanks in advance.

Background:
Age: 25
Weight: 215
Height: 6-1
Goal: Cut/Recomp
Diet: Clean, Low Carbs/High Protein
Former Athlete


PRE-CYCLE - WEEK 1-2 (2 WEEKS)
CEL CYCLE ASSIST
LIV-52
ORANGE TRIAD MULTI
OPTIMUM NUTRITION WHEY


IN-CYCLE - WEEKS 3-8 (6 WEEKS)
CEL CYCLE ASSIST
LIV-52
ORANGE TRIAD MULTI
OPTIMUM NUTRITION WHEY
EPISTANE

• WEEK 3: (DAY 1-3: 10 MG) (DAY 4-7: 20MG)
  
• WEEK 4: (DAY 8-11 20MG) (DAY 12-14: 30 MG)
  
• WEEK 5: 30 MG
  
• WEEK 6: 30 MG
  
• WEEK 7: 40 MG
  
• WEEK 8: 40 MG

PCT - WEEKS 9-12 (4 WEEKS)
CEL CYCLE ASSIST
LIV-52
ORANGE TRIAD MULTI
OPTIMUM NUTRITION WHEY
CELLMASS 2.0
NO-XPLODE 2.0
LEAN X-TREME
MYO-TEST

• (BEGINNING 2 WEEKS AFTER BEGINNING PCT - WEEK 11 - WEEK 14)

NOLVADEX

• WEEK 9: (DAY 1-3: 30MG) (DAY 4-7: 20MG)
• WEEK 10: 20MG
• WEEK 11: 10MG
• WEEK 12: 10MG

WEEK 13-14 (2 WEEKS)
ORANGE TRIAD MULTI
OPTIMUM NUTRITION WHEY
CELLMASS 2.0
NO-XPLODE 2.0
MYO-TEST

• MYO-TEST USE ENDS ON WEEK 14

​


My only other concern is dry joints. I may use fish oil throughout. Before ordering, I want to make sure that I covered everything. This stack comes to grand total of $487.96 for the full 14 weeks. Of course, that does not consider food consumption. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks!

[adam3091]

From what I've learnt through research and from what I've been told I would certainly add fish oils and Joint support, maybe something like Supper Cissus RX.

Also consider starting week 3 (or first week of epi) at 30mg, you could always taper up from 20mg but again from my research the general consensus seems to be that 10mg/20mg is not really worthwhile.

I have just started my first cycle so I am NOT an expert but I did my research (quite obsessively) for a good few months before starting. I can't post links yet but my plan and log is called "Havoc log starting 4th May" If you are interested.

I'm sure some of the more experienced and knowledable guys can help out also, Good luck

[insanity00123]

Whats your reasoning using Nolvadex two weeks into pct? Run it all 4 weeks and start the next day after your last dose. You want to jumpstart your balls and keep hem gains.

[GetBig1221]

Whats your reasoning using Nolvadex two weeks into pct? Run it all 4 weeks and start the next day after your last dose. You want to jumpstart your balls and keep hem gains.

Sorry that it wasn't clear man. I plan on starting my test booster, MyoTest, 2 weeks after beginning PCT. I was planning on taking 30mg of nolvadex on days 1-3 on the first week, then 20mg from days 4-14 and finally 10mg for weeks 3 and 4.

[GetBig1221]

From what I've learnt through research and from what I've been told I would certainly add fish oils and Joint support, maybe something like Supper Cissus RX.

Also consider starting week 3 (or first week of epi) at 30mg, you could always taper up from 20mg but again from my research the general consensus seems to be that 10mg/20mg is not really worthwhile.

I have just started my first cycle so I am NOT an expert but I did my research (quite obsessively) for a good few months before starting. I can't post links yet but my plan and log is called "Havoc log starting 4th May" If you are interested.

I'm sure some of the more experienced and knowledable guys can help out also, Good luck

Thanks for the response! The reason that I didn't initially include joint supports was because Orange Triad has a good blend and I heard that CEL Cycle Assist has a nice blend so I wasn't sure if it was necessary. Maybe, I'll add some fish oil since it's getting a bit pricey.

Also, I agree with your EPI remarks. I would love to run the whole 6 weeks at 40 but I'm just not certain how my body will respond. Maybe, I'll do a cycle of:

Week 3: 10mg for first 3 days, 20mg for 4 days
Week 4: 30mg
Week 5: 30mg
Week 6: 30mg/40mg
Week 7: 40mg
Week 8: 40mg

[GetBig1221]

Bump... Does anyone else have any suggestions?

[zpole]

I finished my 8 week Epi cycle about 3 weeks ago, it went like this.

30/30/40/40/40/40/40/40mg.

I gained a total of 12 lbs. You will not start "seeing gains" in mass until about week 4 1/2. Although you will start ligitng heavier around week 2. As for on support all you really need is milk thistle and a multi vitamin, possibly fish oil if your joints become frail (mine did not).

This PH doesn't alter test levels at all during the cycle. It basically increases mucsle hypertrophy and protein synthesis so high protein intake is a must or it will be rendered useless. It does shut down Estrogen pretty much completely so an AI isn't required either. I honestly didn't use a SERM or SARM during PCT because it was such a mild PH. Creatine can help during PCT (although i didn't use it)

After this being said, of the 12 lbs gained i kept 8 after 3 weeks. My blood work came back normal.

[stamp_on_kids]

Op there is a reason zpole is in the red that advice is garbage. If you are dead set tapering like that go ahead but 10 and 20 mg a day is such a waste imo. And the dry joints vary person to person. I mean its definitely not a wet compound but I think you are worrying too much. Also why not use fish oil all the time?

[OnionKnight]

I finished my 8 week Epi cycle about 3 weeks ago, it went like this.

30/30/40/40/40/40/40/40mg.

I gained a total of 12 lbs. You will not start "seeing gains" in mass until about week 4 1/2. Although you will start ligitng heavier around week 2. As for on support all you really need is milk thistle and a multi vitamin, possibly fish oil if your joints become frail (mine did not).

This PH doesn't alter test levels at all during the cycle. It basically increases mucsle hypertrophy and protein synthesis so high protein intake is a must or it will be rendered useless. It does shut down Estrogen pretty much completely so an AI isn't required either. I honestly didn't use a SERM or SARM during PCT because it was such a mild PH. Creatine can help during PCT (although i didn't use it)

After this being said, of the 12 lbs gained i kept 8 after 3 weeks. My blood work came back normal.

ignore this assclown and the horrible advice he just threw at you. epistane is an active steroid and by nature will suppress test production. and 8 weeks on a methyl is for advanced users only and even then is stupid as the sides will outgrow the benefits at that point. aka pissing brown clouds of fire and feeling nauseous all the time, as well as further suppression of test. and just look up rebound gyno from epi, its far too common from not using an ai during pct. it does supress estrogen on cycle, but that causes a rebound spike during pct. so a serm and ai are both highly recomended

now back to some real advice. i think for a first cycle, your dosage will rock your socks. stay with 30/30/30/40/40/40. and the joint issues mentioned are highly exagerated most of the time. the pain usually comes from getting ballsy and pushing your record every time you workout. im not saying dont get joint support because it is useful. but dont expect epi by itself to cause unwarranted pains in your wrists and knees

i also want to mention epi has a 6-8 hour half life so 3 doses a day would be ideal. for that reason, the first week tapering up isnt really necesary. either do 20/day or 30/day and uoull be fine. as long as you properly preloaded hawthorne berry that is

btw, always have fishoil. its absolutely the best staple you can have year round. no negatives to it, countless positives. costco sells 400 1g pills for ~$10 (dont quote me here, it might be $15)

[zpole]

These guys are wrong don't listen to them if you take a SERM during PCT after epistane you will mess up your whole body including your genes and mind. Have fun trying to have babies without down syndrome or always wanting to kill yourself from depression.

[superbeast668]

These guys are wrong don't listen to them if you take a SERM during PCT after epistane you will mess up your whole body including your genes and mind. Have fun trying to have babies without down syndrome or always wanting to kill yourself from depression.

] Wtf? There's nothing more to be said. Op cycle looks good. Pct looks good. Onion is a reasonably smart dude. His suggestions are worth following. Msm and collagen with glucosamine and chomdroitin seem to help my joints better than cissus. A combo of all of the above is great.

Ignore ANYTHING zpole says. I smell troll. Or a retard.

[maybe0123]

I took orange triad and fish oils on my epi cycle and joints were fine

[gkulek]

ignore this assclown and the horrible advice he just threw at you. epistane is an active steroid and by nature will suppress test production. and 8 weeks on a methyl is for advanced users only and even then is stupid as the sides will outgrow the benefits at that point. aka pissing brown clouds of fire and feeling nauseous all the time, as well as further suppression of test. and just look up rebound gyno from epi, its far too common from not using an ai during pct. it does supress estrogen on cycle, but that causes a rebound spike during pct. so a serm and ai are both highly recomended

now back to some real advice. i think for a first cycle, your dosage will rock your socks. stay with 30/30/30/40/40/40. and the joint issues mentioned are highly exagerated most of the time. the pain usually comes from getting ballsy and pushing your record every time you workout. im not saying dont get joint support because it is useful. but dont expect epi by itself to cause unwarranted pains in your wrists and knees

i also want to mention epi has a 6-8 hour half life so 3 doses a day would be ideal. for that reason, the first week tapering up isnt really necesary. either do 20/day or 30/day and uoull be fine. as long as you properly preloaded hawthorne berry that is

btw, always have fishoil. its absolutely the best staple you can have year round. no negatives to it, countless positives. costco sells 400 1g pills for ~$10 (dont quote me here, it might be $15)

This is prolly the best most straight forward advice, he wouldn't push a serm if he didn't absolutely believe u need it. Anytime u run a steroid cycle, which epistane is, you need a serm. Gyno rebound would suck if u gained 12 solid pounds on epi and 6 lbs of man boobs since u didnt pct properly

[superbeast668]

This is prolly the best most straight forward advice, he wouldn't push a serm if he didn't absolutely believe u need it. Anytime u run a steroid cycle, which epistane is, you need a serm. Gyno rebound would suck if u gained 12 solid pounds on epi and 6 lbs of man boobs since u didnt pct properly

6lb man tits. ::motorboat::

[Lhns2]

These guys are wrong don't listen to them if you take a SERM during PCT after epistane you will mess up your whole body including your genes and mind. Have fun trying to have babies without down syndrome or always wanting to kill yourself from depression.

Zpole is a ztroll

[mw1]

No need to Preload the Cycle Assist. For PCT use Nolvadex at 30-40 mgs for 4 weeks. Which version of Lean Xtreme were you gonna use? The newest version is not going to help with cortisol control like its previous versions or Reduce XT

[GetBig1221]

Don't worry everyone, I've done more than enough research to know that Zpole is an idiot.

Anyways, I'm definitely going to add the fish oil throughout. Also, I was thinking of using AI Life Support instead of CEL Cycle Assist since it has a few more ingredients aimed at heart health but then I decided to not to mess with CEL C/A since it works so well.

The suggestion about Reduce XT is greatly appreciated and I think that I'm going to go try it. Everything I've read has been positive.

Lastly, I am a little confused about the Nolvadex and dosing. I've read a bunch of conflicting stuff as to whether run it at 40/40/20/20, 20/20/10/10 or 40/30/20/10. Any help with that will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks boys.

[Lhns2]

I usually do the 40/40/20/20 but this time around I dosed torem and Clomid lower doses together with formeron and Exemestane... best pct I've ever had.

[chris223]

These guys are wrong don't listen to them if you take a SERM during PCT after epistane you will mess up your whole body including your genes and mind. Have fun trying to have babies without down syndrome or always wanting to kill yourself from depression.

/ignore

[chris223]

Lastly, I am a little confused about the Nolvadex and dosing. I've read a bunch of conflicting stuff as to whether run it at 40/40/20/20, 20/20/10/10 or 40/30/20/10. Any help with that will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks boys.

I really think you're good at 20/20/10/10, for Epi standalone at a moderate dose.

[GetBig1221]

Just to keep you guys updated, I just started my pre-cycle phase today. Also, I decided to make a few changes with the dosing. I have spoken to a lot of people today who say that I'm as prepared as anyone for this cycle and should at least attempt to get my money's worth by pushing the limits a little bit more. Everyone I know who has taken it, has a had no problems at 40-60mg. Therefore, I'm going to push it a little more than I originally planned.

I'm going to dose as follows:

WEEK 3: 10mg/20mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg
WEEK 4: 30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/40mg/40mg
WEEK 5: 40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg
WEEK 6: 40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg
WEEK 7: 40mg/40mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg
WEEK 8: 50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg

Summary:

10mg - 1 day
20mg - 2 day
30mg - 10 days
40mg - 18 days
50mg - 12 days

Too much? Too little? I plan on adjusting according to sides. LMK fellas.

[gkulek]

I'm doing my epi like this

30mg 7 days
40mg 21 days
50mg 15 days

Only 6 weeks instead of 8

[insanity00123]

Just to keep you guys updated, I just started my pre-cycle phase today. Also, I decided to make a few changes with the dosing. I have spoken to a lot of people today who say that I'm as prepared as anyone for this cycle and should at least attempt to get my money's worth by pushing the limits a little bit more. Everyone I know who has taken it, has a had no problems at 40-60mg. Therefore, I'm going to push it a little more than I originally planned.

I'm going to dose as follows:

WEEK 3: 10mg/20mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg
WEEK 4: 30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/30mg/40mg/40mg
WEEK 5: 40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg
WEEK 6: 40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg/40mg
WEEK 7: 40mg/40mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg
WEEK 8: 50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg/50mg

Summary:

10mg - 1 day
20mg - 2 day
30mg - 10 days
40mg - 18 days
50mg - 12 days

Too much? Too little? I plan on adjusting according to sides. LMK fellas.

There's no point with starting at 10mg or 20mg. You're just wasting pills because at that dosage it wont do much jack. Just start off with 30.

[zendog]

What the go with epi and clones these days. back when epistane and havoc first came out I did four week cycle of 30,30,30,30 and it was great. Nice strength and size right from the start.

[threeFs]

Epi (havoc) was my favorite compared to hdrol. I ran a log about it and it was really an awesome run until PCT. I was shut down hard and my torem was bunk. My testosterone level was 60ng/dl (lowest I've ever seen from anybody). So I can say that if you're undecided on a SERM, plan on TRT if your body doesn't recover. Granted I'm 35 so that surely has an effect. Or you could be fine and recover quickly, nobody knows.

Also, agreed on not starting with 10mg or even 20mg. Those could be best suited to make your 30 into a 40 for a few days.