First PH yay or nay

[CaptnCaveman]

I just wanted to get some opinions on whether or not a ph cycle would be beneficial to help me cut, or if I should stay natty(semi-natty, I'm on TRT) a little longer. I'm pretty convinced I'm going to do ph/aas at some point, but I'm in no rush and don't mind building up a solid base first. I have a lot of respect for a lot of AM members' knowledge, and it'd be cool to get some opinions.

Current stats
5'9
253lbs
Roughly 30% bf (guessing, no measurements)
Current lifts at 5x5, don't know 1rep max currently.
BP-195
Squats-195
DL-200

Sorry that's a little vague but I lift without a spotter so haven't tried to max out yet. I've been training since last Oct, and started stronglifts 5x5 about two months ago. I train three days a week with cardio thrown in at least twice a week but usually three times. Idk, I guess that's all I can think of. Anything I left out just ask. I'm thinking of doing epi, tren ph, or stano combined with my trt test for a cut. Pref one of the non-methyls. Would I see any benefit at this bf, or should I wait to get lower? If so, what bf% would be the maximum people would suggest?

 

[Celorza]

For now , seriously...nope. You need to progress far more in your "natural" manner (since you are on TRT I used the quotes)...Learn to manipulate your body composition with diet and caloric expenditure and apply strength progression to those lifts please. Come back in some 4-5 years (depending of your age and stats then) for a proper cycle advising and outline.

 

[Cordeen]

Whats your age?

 

[harbonah]

For now , seriously...nope. You need to progress far more in your "natural" manner (since you are on TRT I used the quotes)...Learn to manipulate your body composition with diet and caloric expenditure and apply strength progression to those lifts please. Come back in some 4-5 years (depending of your age and stats then) for a proper cycle advising and outline.

I have to agree with this you need to train and diet for now. If anything maybe look at a hard cut with ECA but even that wont help much until you fix your diet.

 

[Ballesteri]

. Come back in some 4-5 years (depending of your age and stats then) for a proper cycle advising and outline.

Yes come back in 4-5 years, well you could stop in later today i guess

 

[CaptnCaveman]

Whats your age?

I'm 29.

 

[Celorza]

I'm 29.

Focus on learning to manipulate your body composition naturally (as natural as you can do it given you are on TRT) and get experience on it. If you do not know how to do this naturally, trust me no amount of AAS will make the trick for you.

 

[CaptnCaveman]

I have to agree with this you need to train and diet for now. If anything maybe look at a hard cut with ECA but even that wont help much until you fix your diet.

My diet is pretty on point for the last two months I've been tracking calories and macros. Still playing with and adjusting ratios. And in case you maybe thinking if your diet was on point you wouldn't be 250lbs, this time last year I was aprox 350lb. Just hit a plateau and I'm toying around with ideas on how to break thru it. ECA kind of scares me, gonna look more into YCA to see how it compares and if its worth trying.

 

[Cordeen]

My diet is pretty on point for the last two months I've been tracking calories and macros. Still playing with and adjusting ratios. And in case you maybe thinking if your diet was on point you wouldn't be 250lbs, this time last year I was aprox 350lb. Just hit a plateau and I'm toying around with ideas on how to break thru it. ECA kind of scares me, gonna look more into YCA to see how it compares and if its worth trying.

Awesome progress...you're doing something right to this point..lol.

How much cardio you doing?

 

[Celorza]

My diet is pretty on point for the last two months I've been tracking calories and macros. Still playing with and adjusting ratios. And in case you maybe thinking if your diet was on point you wouldn't be 250lbs, this time last year I was aprox 350lb. Just hit a plateau and I'm toying around with ideas on how to break thru it. ECA kind of scares me, gonna look more into YCA to see how it compares and if its worth trying.

ECA scares you, but not an Oral Active Steroid or Non-methylated pro-hormones? I think your progress is magnificent, but you have to focus on learning real proper form, a proper workout plan and sticking to it too, otherwise those lifts won't grow and Strength Building is a proper and most useful venue for Physique building/sculpting brother.

 

[CaptnCaveman]

Come back in some 4-5 years (depending of your age and stats then) for a proper cycle advising and outline.

Thanks for your reply. I respect your opinion, but there's NO way I'll be waiting that long.

 

[EatMoar]

Thanks for your reply. I respect your opinion, but there's NO way I'll be waiting that long.

Then you're very ignorant. When you take any aas you have to be somewhat healthy. It takes a toll on your body, bp and lipid level wise. If you are at 30% bf and take aas you put yours in harms way. We aren't saying not to do it because we don't want you too we are saying it for your safety.

 

[CaptnCaveman]

ECA scares you, but not an Oral Active Steroid or Non-methylated pro-hormones? I think your progress is magnificent, but you have to focus on learning real proper form, a proper workout plan and sticking to it too, otherwise those lifts won't grow and Strength Building is a proper and most useful venue for Physique building/sculpting brother.

I agree 100% that strength and muscle building is going to be the best solution to lose body fat, and I am definitely focused on perfecting my technique and form as well as consistently increasing all of my lifts. I listed what I can do on major compound lifts for 25 reps(5x5), not my pr's. When I started the program I intentionally started with very low weight to work on my form for squats and deads coz I've never really done them and know how important form is to prevent injuries.

I don't just do the 3 lifts per session like the programs suggests, I apply a 5x5 regimen to 12-13 exercises per session. Typical session lasts 1:30 and 20-30 mins of cardio afterwards. Not that you asked, I just want people to know I'm not training or eating half assed.

I guess I'm just more familiar with the dangers and potential side-effects of ph, and don't know enough about ECA.

 

[CaptnCaveman]

How much cardio you doing?

Typically 20-30 mins three times a week. That's not counting when I go bike riding or walking with my sons. I'm sure I could stand to be doing more, but I'm not gonna lie, I hate it. Besides walking, that is.

 

[CaptnCaveman]

Then you're very ignorant. When you take any aas you have to be somewhat healthy. It takes a toll on your body, bp and lipid level wise. If you are at 30% bf and take aas you put yours in harms way. We aren't saying not to do it because we don't want you too we are saying it for your safety.

Thank you for your opinion, but I disagree, I'm not very ignorant. I understand the possible health risks and what to be aware of and watch out for, as well as the need for support supps. I've spent MANY hours educating myself about aas, and ph. I didn't give a timeline on when I was dead set on taking one, but if I wait four or five years before I decide to use a ph they'd prob be illegal by then.

 

[BlackGT99]

I agree 100% that strength and muscle building is going to be the best solution to lose body fat, and I am definitely focused on perfecting my technique and form as well as consistently increasing all of my lifts. I listed what I can do on major compound lifts for 25 reps(5x5), not my pr's. When I started the program I intentionally started with very low weight to work on my form for squats and deads coz I've never really done them and know how important form is to prevent injuries.

I don't just do the 3 lifts per session like the programs suggests, I apply a 5x5 regimen to 12-13 exercises per session. Typical session lasts 1:30 and 20-30 mins of cardio afterwards. Not that you asked, I just want people to know I'm not training or eating half assed.

I guess I'm just more familiar with the dangers and potential side-effects of ph, and don't know enough about ECA.

So by your logic, you're saying that:
Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin is more confusing than "4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-diene-3,17 diol"??

 

[CaptnCaveman]

So by your logic, you're saying that:
Ephedrine, Caffeine and Aspirin is more confusing than "4-chloro-17a-methyl-1,4-diene-3,17 diol"??

No man, relax. This thread isn't about ECA. All I asked was whether a ph would yield any noticable results with diet and training in check at 30%ish bf, and if not, at what body fat would someone recommend being at before starting. I didn't ask about sides or dangers, so assume if I'm asking about putting something into my body that will alter its functions that I might take a few mins to do some reading about it. If you don't have anything constructive to add and just essentially wanna say I'm too fat please save your breath and move on.

 

[pyrobatt]

No man, relax. This thread isn't about ECA. All I asked was whether a ph would yield any noticable results with diet and training in check at 30%ish bf, and if not, at what body fat would someone recommend being at before starting. I didn't ask about sides or dangers, so assume if I'm asking about putting something into my body that will alter its functions that I might take a few mins to do some reading about it. If you don't have anything constructive to add and just essentially wanna say I'm too fat please save your breath and move on.

8 to 15% is a good start point for gaining size. You would also gain more positive effects at 8 to 15 %

 

[ChefJoey]

Yea I wouldn't say you have to wait 5 years but you have to get that bf down bud. I'd say almost in half

 

[Imskyhigh87]

Theres nothing remotely natty about being on trt bruz

 

[CaptnCaveman]

So would 20% be realistic or would you suggest 15% on the button? I know there's not a set number, and I've read about some guys using winny at around 20%, but I don't wanna be wasting money. I'm thinking I'll wait until around fall after continuing to cut natty all summer and see where I'm at then. I'm looking at stano more than the others, but how would a dht metabolite stack with my trt test?

 

[EatMoar]

Thank you for your opinion, but I disagree, I'm not very ignorant. I understand the possible health risks and what to be aware of and watch out for, as well as the need for support supps. I've spent MANY hours educating myself about aas, and ph. I didn't give a timeline on when I was dead set on taking one, but if I wait four or five years before I decide to use a ph they'd prob be illegal by then.

ha im surprised all supps arent illegal by now.

 

[harbonah]

So would 20% be realistic or would you suggest 15% on the button? I know there's not a set number, and I've read about some guys using winny at around 20%, but I don't wanna be wasting money. I'm thinking I'll wait until around fall after continuing to cut natty all summer and see where I'm at then. I'm looking at stano more than the others, but how would a dht metabolite stack with my trt test?

I would start with 11oxo if you want to start at 20% 600mg or so should do nice since you will still be on a cut. But I would hit ECA before that.