Don't like Epi, would like to try something else

[1976pianoman]

Epistane (RPN Havoc) turns me into an unmotivated zombie. I could workout and workout hard, but nothing else in my life went well over the last 30 days while I was on-cycle. I just didn't feel like doing anything. Very unproductive. Is this due to low test levels? If so, it now makes sense to me why everyone says that steroid cycles should always include test. Yet that proves to be a problem for us PH'ers doesn't it?

Before I give up on PH, I would like to try another. I guess I'm willing to be a zombie and feel like crap for a month if the gains are incredible. On epi, the gains have been good and noticeable to me, just not "wow". I'm thinking epi is probably a mild compound, and there might be something better out there.

What is the absolute most powerful (and probably most toxic) PH right now? Maybe one of these designer stacks I'm seeing? I'm looking into Blackstone Labs METHA-DROL EXTREME. Is there anything better/more powerful than this?

Thank you.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Probably SD for 4-6 weeks. Toxic to your liver, "super powerful", big gains....and yes you will feel like absolute shyt for most of the cycle, lethargic as a MF'er. I am on day 6 right now and I'm getting that lazy, tired, don't feel like eating feeling already. Sucks, but I'm up 5 lbs already (This is a stack that includes SD btw, not just the SD solo like you are contemplating).

 

[1976pianoman]

What product are you taking?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

TRT plus deca and Beastdrol SD. ~100mg, 300mg, 20mg. 12 weeks, with weeks 3-8 only on the SD. SD was recently banned, but "if you can find it" its good stuff (other than the liver toxicity, but hey a month or so won't kill you....)

 

[1976pianoman]

Is the SD in the product I asked about legit? Or should I look around for another SD?

 

[1976pianoman]

Found "Lgi Sd-10" that is available. I think I remember hearing good things about LGI. I'm not sure what the rules here are regarding discussing banned substances. If anyone has info on a good SD product that is available now, PM me. I will return the favor. There's just so many BS products out there, I don't want to just blindly order one on Amazon or via a Google search.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Found "Lgi Sd-10" that is available. I think I remember hearing good things about LGI. I'm not sure what the rules here are regarding discussing banned substances. If anyone has info on a good SD product that is available now, PM me. I will return the favor. There's just so many BS products out there, I don't want to just blindly order one on Amazon or via a Google search.

yeah I got a handful of LGI, and a handful of Beastdrol. I am using the beast first, since It has always come through in the past. The LGI I'll use later after the beast is gone. But LGI gets positive reviews, I just have no personal experience with it...other than purchasing it.

 

[rayjay]

TRT plus deca and Beastdrol SD. ~100mg, 300mg, 20mg. 12 weeks, with weeks 3-8 only on the SD. SD was recently banned, but "if you can find it" its good stuff (other than the liver toxicity, but hey a month or so won't kill you....)

The way you said this could be confusing...

TRT 100mg/week test
Deca 300mg/week
SD 20mg daily
Right?

I'd hate to see the OP go take 300mg SD...

 

[AnabolicHolic]

The way you said this could be confusing...

TRT 100mg/week test
Deca 300mg/week
SD 20mg daily
Right?

I'd hate to see the OP go take 300mg SD...

correct. It was "respectively" listed, but not noted.

 

[rayjay]

correct. It was "respectively" listed, but not noted.

Just being cautious for the OP and any possible young kid reading these thinking "AWESOME, I want to try SD at 300!" Lol

 

[gymrat99]

i disagree i don't think op should do SD since it is a very strong ph which he knows nothing about. I would probably recommend something like Hdrol as it is similar to epi and is not as live toxic s SD.

 

[Keepitreel]

how is 300mgs deca with 100mgs of test going is the "tip" still working?

 

[AnabolicHolic]

how is 300mgs deca with 100mgs of test going is the "tip" still working?

Yeah oddly enough everything is fine. Maybe even an increase? but maybe my caber tabs are actually real too...that is helpful. They are rx but not from the pharmacy. The deca is 100% legit organon Karachi though. I guess deca can affect people differently....esp in the presence of low dose test and ancilleries. Im at one month so we'll see how it goes mid and end of cycle....

 

[1976pianoman]

i disagree i don't think op should do SD since it is a very strong ph which he knows nothing about. I would probably recommend something like Hdrol as it is similar to epi and is not as live toxic s SD.

I appreciate that concern, but my point here is that I'm not willing to feel the way I felt on epi unless I'm going to get substantial gains. So using a similar compound is not something I want to do. I'm well enough versed now in AAS to have put together a methyl tren + test prop cycle with proper support, AI and SERM. Honestly, now that I know what I know, the whole thing seems like a bit much. It's going to cost me $300+ for a 5-6 week cycle and I'd be lying if I said that pinning is sitting well with me. So I wanted to give PH one more try before I jump ship over to the real stuff, but I want to be sure I'm taking a potent PH this time. If I were to take SD, I would research it first and put together a safe cycle.

 

[1976pianoman]

Does stacking with TRT eliminate the lethargy and zombie effects? Is TRT a pill? I'm sure if I pinned 100-200mg test prop per week I would feel much better, but I'm not wanting to pin just yet. I presume TRT is expensive and I have to go BS my doc in order to get it? I don't see it available from my source. What exactly is it called? (I know it's test, but I would like more info on it)

 

[tinytony]

Does stacking with TRT eliminate the lethargy and zombie effects? Is TRT a pill? I'm sure if I pinned 100-200mg test prop per week I would feel much better, but I'm not wanting to pin just yet. I presume TRT is expensive and I have to go BS my doc in order to get it? I don't see it available from my source. What exactly is it called? (I know it's test, but I would like more info on it)

TRT means testosterone replacement therapy. Usually pinned as far as i know. That's what its called when a doctor prescribes it and its legal. That's the official stuff. Now you could get some test and do the same thing yourself obviously

 

[tinytony]

From your source that is

 

[gkulek]

I am going to do a 6 week epi cycle. Is there anything I can take along with it to prevent lethargy and low libido?

 

[Celorza]

I am going to do a 6 week epi cycle. Is there anything I can take along with it to prevent lethargy and low libido?

5-Alpha test by FRL and/or AMS 4-AD.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

TRT means testosterone replacement therapy. Usually pinned as far as i know. That's what its called when a doctor prescribes it and its legal. That's the official stuff. Now you could get some test and do the same thing yourself obviously

Yep. And no pill OP...but there are topical options that work fine...other than the daily hassle of application. Its not a cycle though...its testosterone 4 life. A simple cycle of test is more what you are looking for.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

5-Alpha test by FRL and/or AMS 4-AD.

Or these if you want "the pill" . topical DHEA is an option as well.

 

[1976pianoman]

I was aiming for a 6 week EPI cycle too. There was no way I could bear it any longer and had to quit after 30 days. I am one day into PCT and I already feel SO much better. I forgot how it felt to feel normal. I feel SO good today. So glad I stopped. I just flushed 50 Havoc pills down the toilet. What little gains I made were definitely not worth it. I would NEVER run EPI again without test. Even with test, and the avoidance of the zombie effect, it's just not strong enough to warrant wasting my time and energy on it. The gains reported on EPI seem anecdotal to me. I have yet to see any convincing before and after pics online. In fact, the few I have seen are a joke. One guy actually looks better before than he does after. It's very easy to fool yourself into thinking your making gains. Little changes in body composition and scale increases can be misinterpreted as progress. Yes, there's obviously progress, but is it really all that more than you would have made working out the same without the drug? I actually thought at first that I was getting huge. I was confusing the pump and some weight gain on the scale with actual gains. I didn't realize until I took photos and compared them to my before pics that I really was wasting my time. I presume that anyone here that actually knows what they are doing would never run EPI alone. Maybe I'm wrong. One things for sure, it's not the thing for me.

I wonder if I had such a bad lethargy and motivation issue with EPI, what SD would be like. I'm not afraid of liver problems or gyno or anything like that. I can manage those. It's the lethargy and motivation issue which I presume it relative to test, that I cannot live with. My life sucks when I'm like that. BUT - like I said, if SD gains are incredible I'm willing to suffer and be a deadbeat and just workout like a MF'er for 30 days. I guess what is being said is that test prop injections might be the ticket, but if I'm going to do that, I might as well not do PH and do something different all together.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

SD works wonderful with test prop actually. Or dbol. This is where the term stacking comes into play. The sum of the compounds is more effective than any single compound is by itself. Although they can be used solo of course

 

[OnionKnight]

dude if you felt too lethargic to eat on epistane, youre gonna feel like absolute complete fukin **** on superdrol. and its gonna make you a total ******* if you dont eat. maybe you should try hdrol or another run at epistane with a 4dhea or dht compound to back you up. that should completely negate the lethargy

btw, by canceling on the 4th week, you missed the best part of epi. it kicks in around week 3, thus the 6 week run. you missed out on 2 good weeks

 

[1976pianoman]

I wonder how SD compares to methyl tren (pill). What I was going to do was methyl tren + test prop. But I wanted to avoid the needle, so I ventured back here to PH land looking for a no-needle solution, when it looks like there really isn't one. At least an effective one for my tastes. Well at least now I know. Thanks everyone for the input.

 

[tinytony]

dude if you felt too lethargic to eat on epistane, youre gonna feel like absolute complete fukin **** on superdrol. and its gonna make you a total ******* if you dont eat. maybe you should try hdrol or another run at epistane with a 4dhea or dht compound to back you up. that should completely negate the lethargy

btw, by canceling on the 4th week, you missed the best part of epi. it kicks in around week 3, thus the 6 week run. you missed out on 2 good weeks

Epi doesn't make me that lethargic by itself but if I stack.it with Msten or SD I'm just a vegetable. But yeah add in the 4 DHEA. And loads of caffeine lol

 

[tinytony]

I wonder how SD compares to methyl tren (pill). What I was going to do was methyl tren + test prop. But I wanted to avoid the needle, so I ventured back here to PH land looking for a no-needle solution, when it looks like there really isn't one. At least an effective one for my tastes. Well at least now I know. Thanks everyone for the input.

Why not just do one of the non-methyl Tren PHs that's out. Its good at 90 mg ED and above. If you have Caber you shouldn't be lethargic and you'll be strong. I'm running it with Stano now too and dude if I even touch coffee I get jittery. Zero tiredness on this

 

[tinytony]

I may be saying too much on this thread and if so just say shut up. But I'm always in search of a combination that makes me feel insane and energetic with minimal sides and I have 2 pet stacks now. Epi and M1,4 ADD(have liver support like TUDCA and good AI besides Epi) feels so insane and weight gain like a ******. Now this Tren and Caber combo (and Stano) good energy, huge pumps, and decent strength

 

[AnabolicHolic]

im a tough bastard but SD kicks my ass with lethargy AND kills my appetite. Nice time to be appetiteless huh? lol. Epi does kick in hard weeks 4-6 no doubt. But im one if those guys who require 60 mg for effectiveness in my trial and error.

 

[1976pianoman]

I may be saying too much on this thread and if so just say shut up. But I'm always in search of a combination that makes me feel insane and energetic with minimal sides and I have 2 pet stacks now. Epi and M1,4 AdlDD(have liver support like TUDCA and good AI besides Epi) feels so insane and weight gain like a ******. Now this Tren and Caber combo (and Stano) good energy, huge pumps, and decent strength

Thanks. I might PM you to find out more details on these stacks when I'm ready.

 

[tinytony]

Thanks. I might PM you to find out more details on these stacks when I'm ready.

Yeah no problem. The M1,4 ADD supply is dwindling as we speak

 

[whaz]

I appreciate that concern, but my point here is that I'm not willing to feel the way I felt on epi unless I'm going to get substantial gains. So using a similar compound is not something I want to do. I'm well enough versed now in AAS to have put together a methyl tren + test prop cycle with proper support, AI and SERM. Honestly, now that I know what I know, the whole thing seems like a bit much. It's going to cost me $300+ for a 5-6 week cycle and I'd be lying if I said that pinning is sitting well with me. So I wanted to give PH one more try before I jump ship over to the real stuff, but I want to be sure I'm taking a potent PH this time. If I were to take SD, I would research it first and put together a safe cycle.

No offense man but between this and asking if trt is a pill it sounds like you don't really know a whole lot about PH/AAS use. Getting rid of lethargy on an epi cycle is an easy fix. If you had done the research needed before hand you would have known that and also found a way to combat it. There are many products out there that are so called "test bases" that are not injectable testosterone. They help to combat lethargy and loss of libido. Some of these are Stanodrol, 5-Alpha Test, Dermacrine, etc. Every PH cycle I have ran has included one of these at least and the sides (as far as lethargy and loss of libido) were very minimal. Not trying to be a dick but this is something that could've been avoided or at least minimized.

 

[1976pianoman]

No offense man but between this and asking if trt is a pill it sounds like you don't really know a whole lot about PH/AAS use. Getting rid of lethargy on an epi cycle is an easy fix. If you had done the research needed before hand you would have known that and also found a way to combat it. There are many products out there that are so called "test bases" that are not injectable testosterone. They help to combat lethargy and loss of libido. Some of these are Stanodrol, 5-Alpha Test, Dermacrine, etc. Every PH cycle I have ran has included one of these at least and the sides (as far as lethargy and loss of libido) were very minimal. Not trying to be a dick but this is something that could've been avoided or at least minimized.

Well that's a relative claim. I do know a lot, just not enough it seems. Everything I studied regarding EPI indicated that I would not have the zombie effect. Even the RPN label itself says that. So I didn't look into it. How TRT never came across my radar is strange if indeed it's a common ancillary used for cycles. Of course I understand what low-t is and that I can go to a doctor and get treated for it. Just never heard it discussed in the realms that I learned in. The only test I know about is test prop and test enath. Learning this stuff is weird. There is no tried and true fail safe way to do it. Everyone seems to have varying opinions and people are doing things differently. One things for sure, I'm totally in the dark when it comes to PH. I know more about the real stuff. That's why I'm here.

 

[Celorza]

Or these if you want "the pill" . topical DHEA is an option as well.

Dermacrine does the trick indeed.

 

[1976pianoman]

Dermacrine does the trick indeed.

Really? You speak from experience? Do this is just DHEA in a dermal lotion?

 

[OnionKnight]

no you dont dude. if you kew about real stuff, youd know a lot of people come off and need trt and you would of known what it was. and you only know test e and p, what about everything else. like illegal orals such as var, winny, anadrol, dbol, tbol, halotestin. or what about eq, masteron, deca, tren, etc...

you know some, but youre far from knowing a lot because there is a TON to learn in is field. if only there were jobs for this knowledge lol

 

[Celorza]

Really? You speak from experience? Do this is just DHEA in a dermal lotion?

Funny enough, I have used Dermacrine yes, but never with Epi haha. I do however still think 5-alpha from FRL will work a bit better for lethargy !

 

[1976pianoman]

no you dont dude. if you kew about real stuff, youd know a lot of people come off and need trt and you would of known what it was. and you only know test e and p, what about everything else. like illegal orals such as var, winny, anadrol, dbol, tbol, halotestin. or what about eq, masteron, deca, tren, etc...

you know some, but youre far from knowing a lot because there is a TON to learn in is field. if only there were jobs for this knowledge lol

LOL. Yes, I was thinking you guys could make money selling a info packet for a DVD video.

I don't want to get into a pissing match here. I don't have my ego wrapped up in some nonsense claim that I know everything . I am new to this. But of course I know all about those things you mentioned. I was just speaking of test alone because test is what we were discussing. BTW- Methyl tren, is an illegal pill form of tren. Highly hepatotoxic but insanely powerful.

 

[OnionKnight]

lol dude, i was one of the ones that told you that in your thread last week

and i ment something like i wish there was some sort of medical practice for this knowledge. otherwise, its just black market knowledge

 

[1976pianoman]

lol dude, i was one of the ones that told you that in your thread last week

Well last week, I truly didn't know s**t. This week, I know it all. ..but somehow missed the TRT thing. lol. Yeah, if this weren't black market stuff, it would be so much easier to get it right.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

if only there were jobs for this knowledge lol

Every so often I say the same thing.....wouldn't it be grand if we "got paid" for "helping people"? Well you CAN get paid, so to speak, as a rep (with product kickbacks)....but then you might feel like a whore if you are not really helping people, but instead are pimping products. So the only way to truly help and give back to the anabolic community is to be altruistic and give freely of your time and advice. I am doing an internship right now, in addition to my job, and of course I don't get paid there either. At least that will most likely lead to a payoff by way of a job

 

[1976pianoman]

lol dude, i was one of the ones that told you that in your thread last week

ha! I didn't realize what you were saying here until just now. Funny that I would repeat that back to the guy that mentioned it previously. How lame. lol.

 

[TimZeTerrible]

Trest/MENT are suitable to stack for some cycles to crush lethargy and libido loss and give you a serious PWO boost. Its pretty darn suppressive and does aromatize but can be seriously effective. Take necessary precautions. Powerful shtuff.

 

[1976pianoman]

What is Trest/MENT? Sounds like a toothpaste.

 

[AnabolicHolic]

Your teef enamel would be HARD AS FCK on that toothpaste....sort of like the toothpastes that have two swirls in them....cept the swirls and active ingredient = sterioids instead of fluoride.