Which causes more shutdown?

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    Which causes more shutdown?


    soley in terms of shutdown and the amount of your bodies own endogenous test being dropped by the use of an oral androgen, which one is more likely to cause i higher degree of shutdown. Superdrol or Super dmz 2.0. i realize everyone is different just wondering which one on paper should cause more shutdown. thanks guys

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    at equivalent doses i would say they are near identicle. mg per mg it would be superdrol though however the amount of sd u would take per day is much less then the dose of dmz u would take per day
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    Super dmz
    •   
       

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    Libido is for pussies anyway you should take whatever shuts you down the most.
    "Lifting and Game of Thrones share the same calendar, there's only two seasons: cutting and bulking. And guess what? Winter's comin' so it's time to bulk up!"
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperPro View Post
    Libido is for pussies anyway you should take whatever shuts you down the most.
    ^^^ ha! This guy...
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    Shutdown is shutdown. There is no such thing as "light" or "minor" shutdown, its all the same. How long you are shutdown matters, but that's determined by cycle length. Also how FAST you become shutdown should be considered. Tren shuts me down in days while test or dbol takes a couple weeks (2-3ish). I know this for my body from blood tests during cycle.

    So the question of what shuts you down more is like asking what will get me to work? A sports car or Truck? They both will but one will get you there faster.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Shutdown is shutdown. There is no such thing as "light" or "minor" shutdown, its all the same. How long you are shutdown matters, but that's determined by cycle length. Also how FAST you become shutdown should be considered. Tren shuts me down in days while test or dbol takes a couple weeks (2-3ish). I know this for my body from blood tests during cycle.

    So the question of what shuts you down more is like asking what will get me to work? A sports car or Truck? They both will but one will get you there faster.
    Not disagreeing with you, but do you not agree that some cycles do not completely shut you down? Slight suppression yes, but I've never felt completely shut down from any PH/DS and have never ran a test base. And plenty of others state the same. More of a discussion, not attempting to prove u wrong or start ****. I just feel all users react differently. Me on SDMZ, at the end of 4 week, I didn't feel completely shutdown. Wasn't waking up with a hard on, but me and the wife still had our fun. Haha maybe the length of cycle+ speed of suppression per user = how shutdown you are/ feel. Ex: I felt slightly suppressed at 4 weeks so a 6 week run or 4 weeks at higher dose may completely shut me down. I don't know. I'm over analyzing, just looking for input.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayinHeavy View Post

    Not disagreeing with you, but do you not agree that some cycles do not completely shut you down? Slight suppression yes, but I've never felt completely shut down from any PH/DS and have never ran a test base. And plenty of others state the same. More of a discussion, not attempting to prove u wrong or start ****. I just feel all users react differently. Me on SDMZ, at the end of 4 week, I didn't feel completely shutdown. Wasn't waking up with a hard on, but me and the wife still had our fun. Haha maybe the length of cycle+ speed of suppression per user = how shutdown you are/ feel. Ex: I felt slightly suppressed at 4 weeks so a 6 week run or 4 weeks at higher dose may completely shut me down. I don't know. I'm over analyzing, just looking for input.
    You are very right. I was vauge on that part but hinted at it. The reason during some PH/DS cycles guys don't "feel" shutdown is because it wasn't long enough. Not that it didn't shut them down purely there was not enough exposure of the exogenous hormone to suppress the HPTA all the way.

    Some people aren't bright enough to understand there bodies (not talking about anyone here this is purely being general). These windowlickers out there assume because a 4 week cycle of a PH didn't cause complete shutdown that it is mild therefore only causing "light" shutdown. Not the case. Run that same PH at 2x the dose and see how your perspective on shutdown changes.

    That make more sense?
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Huh, I'll get back to all this bro science up in here later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    Huh, I'll get back to all this bro science up in here later.
    Awesome man!
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by DangerDave View Post
    Shutdown is shutdown. There is no such thing as "light" or "minor" shutdown, its all the same. How long you are shutdown matters, but that's determined by cycle length. Also how FAST you become shutdown should be considered. Tren shuts me down in days while test or dbol takes a couple weeks (2-3ish). I know this for my body from blood tests during cycle.

    So the question of what shuts you down more is like asking what will get me to work? A sports car or Truck? They both will but one will get you there faster.
    there are varying levels of htpa supression. if you want to really get at it, no one ever gets "shut down". only supressed. even 20 weeks of deca, the hpta is still functioning, albiet, very weakly.

    example, 10mg of anavar is shown to cause supression on htpa function. I dont think anyone on this forum is going to run 10mg of var, and if they did, they sure wouldn't need to use a pct program.

    all the sarms currently being research have some level of htpa supression.

    how strongly an androgen binds with and interacts with the androgen receptor is going to be a determining factor in htpa supression.

    11-keto-testosterone will not cause as much supression as testosterone.

    superdrol vs a stacked product containing dimethazine and methyl stenbolone, can not really be compared.

    ultimately, supression is going to be determined by dosage, and legnth of cycle.

    the big thing to worry about is testicle desensitization, cause that's what is going to pump out your test. getting the boys back into full swing is whats key.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post

    there are varying levels of htpa supression. if you want to really get at it, no one ever gets "shut down". only supressed. even 20 weeks of deca, the hpta is still functioning, albiet, very weakly.

    example, 10mg of anavar is shown to cause supression on htpa function. I dont think anyone on this forum is going to run 10mg of var, and if they did, they sure wouldn't need to use a pct program.

    all the sarms currently being research have some level of htpa supression.

    how strongly an androgen binds with and interacts with the androgen receptor is going to be a determining factor in htpa supression.

    11-keto-testosterone will not cause as much supression as testosterone.

    superdrol vs a stacked product containing dimethazine and methyl stenbolone, can not really be compared.

    ultimately, supression is going to be determined by dosage, and legnth of cycle.

    the big thing to worry about is testicle desensitization, cause that's what is going to pump out your test. getting the boys back into full swing is whats key.
    Wise as usual.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    there are varying levels of htpa supression. if you want to really get at it, no one ever gets "shut down". only supressed. even 20 weeks of deca, the hpta is still functioning, albiet, very weakly.

    example, 10mg of anavar is shown to cause supression on htpa function. I dont think anyone on this forum is going to run 10mg of var, and if they did, they sure wouldn't need to use a pct program.

    all the sarms currently being research have some level of htpa supression.

    how strongly an androgen binds with and interacts with the androgen receptor is going to be a determining factor in htpa supression.

    11-keto-testosterone will not cause as much supression as testosterone.

    superdrol vs a stacked product containing dimethazine and methyl stenbolone, can not really be compared.

    ultimately, supression is going to be determined by dosage, and legnth of cycle.

    the big thing to worry about is testicle desensitization, cause that's what is going to pump out your test. getting the boys back into full swing is whats key.
    So what causes desensitization? Same things like dosage and length of cycle? Number of cycles?
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    supression of hpta function, which slows output of lh hormone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbryand101b View Post
    there are varying levels of htpa supression. if you want to really get at it, no one ever gets "shut down". only supressed. even 20 weeks of deca, the hpta is still functioning, albiet, very weakly.

    example, 10mg of anavar is shown to cause supression on htpa function. I dont think anyone on this forum is going to run 10mg of var, and if they did, they sure wouldn't need to use a pct program.

    all the sarms currently being research have some level of htpa supression.

    how strongly an androgen binds with and interacts with the androgen receptor is going to be a determining factor in htpa supression.

    11-keto-testosterone will not cause as much supression as testosterone.

    superdrol vs a stacked product containing dimethazine and methyl stenbolone, can not really be compared.

    ultimately, supression is going to be determined by dosage, and legnth of cycle.

    the big thing to worry about is testicle desensitization, cause that's what is going to pump out your test. getting the boys back into full swing is whats key.
    The 11oxo bridge is a good example of using the varying degrees of suppression of different hormones to your advantage.
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    "the big thing to worry about is testicle desensitization, cause that's what is going to pump out your test. getting the boys back into full swing is whats key."

    Whats the best way to "getting the boys back into full swing"? HTC and Clomid?
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehogsters View Post
    "the big thing to worry about is testicle desensitization, cause that's what is going to pump out your test. getting the boys back into full swing is whats key."

    Whats the best way to "getting the boys back into full swing"? HTC and Clomid?
    Yeah, they don't call it an HTC Sensation for nothing, just rub it all over your balls until they've had enough.
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehogsters View Post
    "the big thing to worry about is testicle desensitization, cause that's what is going to pump out your test. getting the boys back into full swing is whats key."

    Whats the best way to "getting the boys back into full swing"? HTC and Clomid?
    HCG?

    and some guys never fully recover from running external test or PH. that is, "normal" production when the cycle is finished may be lower than it was prior. But no source on this so if it is bro science, please flame
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    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    HCG?

    and some guys never fully recover from running external test or PH. that is, "normal" production when the cycle is finished may be lower than it was prior. But no source on this so if it is bro science, please flame
    I am not here to disagree but I would like to ask others on here to respond to this post as I am interested myself.
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    It's fairly rare for lasting hypogonadism to occur as a result of most anabolic steroid cycles. There is a lot of research showing SERMs can restore your hpta. The unlucky ones who do experience permanent issues have some genetic issues or physical impairments (ex varicocele). But those same issues can often be unrelated to anabolic use (idiopathic).

    On cycle HCG can help maintain LH levels and subsequently testosterone production. HCG use for up to a year (maybe longer) has not been shown to desensitize LH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    It's fairly rare for lasting hypogonadism to occur as a result of most anabolic steroid cycles. There is a lot of research showing SERMs can restore your hpta. The unlucky ones who do experience permanent issues have some genetic issues or physical impairments (ex varicocele). But those same issues can often be unrelated to anabolic use (idiopathic).

    On cycle HCG can help maintain LH levels and subsequently testosterone production. HCG use for up to a year (maybe longer) has not been shown to desensitize LH.
    Link to study? Not that I don't believe you, just sounds like good toilet reading.
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    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    HCG?and some guys never fully recover from running external test or PH. that is, "normal" production when the cycle is finished may be lower than it was prior. But no source on this so if it is bro science, please flame
    This is accurate but also not the normal experience, everyone responds differently to these hormonal changes that is true and some will find they never recover others will recover twenty cycles and not on the 21st..General rule of thumb is if its a short cycle most people will be OK its when you start pushing the limits 10-12-16 weeks or cycling back to back to back that most need to worry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    It's fairly rare for lasting hypogonadism to occur as a result of most anabolic steroid cycles. There is a lot of research showing SERMs can restore your hpta. The unlucky ones who do experience permanent issues have some genetic issues or physical impairments (ex varicocele). But those same issues can often be unrelated to anabolic use (idiopathic). On cycle HCG can help maintain LH levels and subsequently testosterone production. HCG use for up to a year (maybe longer) has not been shown to desensitize LH.
    I would not say this is incorrect but rather not clear. Steroid induced hypogonadism is fairly well documented in studies the indices of this taking place would be interesting to research..but the correction of steroid induced hypogonadism is also fairly well documented for insistence.
    ncbi.nlm.nihgov/pubmed/9538490
    Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism treated with human chorionic gonadotropin.AbstractA case is presented of a young competitive body-builder who abused anabolic steroid drugs and developed profound symptomatic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. With the help of prescribed testosterone (Sustanon) he stopped taking anabolic drugs, and later stopped Sustanon also. Hypogonadism returned, but was successfully treated with weekly injections of human chorionic gonadotropin for three months. Testicular function remained normal thereafter on no treatment. The use of human chorionic gonadotropin should be considered in prolonged hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism due to anabolic steroid abuse.
    I would like to ask what study or studies your using to reach the following conclusion? I mean it seems fairly well documented that long term abuse can cause permit hypogonadism?
    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd
    "The unlucky ones who do experience permanent issues have some genetic issues or physical impairments (ex varicocele). But those same issues can often be unrelated to anabolic use (idiopathic). "
    I do not mean to come off as confrontational simply trying to spur discussion.
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    Maybe I was unclear. Hypogonadism occurs as a result of steroid use, however the most recover fine upon cessation of the anabolic.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Maybe I was unclear. Hypogonadism occurs as a result of steroid use, however the most recover fine upon cessation of the anabolic.
    Oh I agree most do. I may have misunderstood what you were trying to say all good!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Maybe I was unclear. Hypogonadism occurs as a result of steroid use, however the most recover fine upon cessation of the anabolic.
    kind of like what I said earlier
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    The point here is that if you PCT your bronads should be fine in most cases
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd
    Maybe I was unclear. Hypogonadism occurs as a result of steroid use, however the most recover fine upon cessation of the anabolic.
    Well, it's a bit more complex than that, but I get what your saying
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    DD said it.... Shutdown is shutdown.
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    Quote Originally Posted by usealittle View Post
    DD said it.... Shutdown is shutdown.
    Facepalm.jpeg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post
    Facepalm.jpeg
    Should rename the thread to "Supression is supression?"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Royd The Noyd View Post

    Facepalm.jpeg
    What's the point...
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    Quote Originally Posted by usealittle View Post

    What's the point...
    Shutdown is not shutdown. There is no complete shutdown. Read previous posts in thread before you post. Hence the face palm...
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    I think the point is, even if there is no complete shutdown, will 70% suppression be any different than 80%? maybe a little in recovery time. But all in all it seems too insignificant to matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StayinHeavy View Post

    Shutdown is not shutdown. There is no complete shutdown. Read previous posts in thread before you post. Hence the face palm...
    This is why I said "DD" said it.... Cuz that's the answer to the OPs question.
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    Quote Originally Posted by threeFs View Post
    HCG?

    and some guys never fully recover from running external test or PH. that is, "normal" production when the cycle is finished may be lower than it was prior. But no source on this so if it is bro science, please flame
    It is definitely true that some people may never COMPLETELY recover ...ALthough when administered properly its not to much to worry about , I would say most healthy individuals make a strong recovery. BUT the more you abuse over time the higer your risk might be ...BUT again some people it may never effect them even after years of using (this is usually because they are the ones that do everything right). Always a risk of no "full" recovery but I would say most of the time you would go back to normal
  

  
 

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