starting to feel the sides... - AnabolicMinds.com

starting to feel the sides...

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    starting to feel the sides...


    well its my 2nd week on epistane and stanozane... i think the biggest mistake i made was not preloading cycle assist 2 weeks in advance...

    well today was kinda chity... yesterday i felt like a boss.. but today my liver was hurting a lot i was so out of energy and i was just mad... ( do you really rage that much on pros?) i just felt like doing nothing... so i barely finished my workout... steamed for a bit then went home and laid on the bed...

    but the main issue is just the liver part.... idk if this is normal or if its because i didnt preload... should i take a higher dosage of cycle assist? i do 4 in the morning and 4 at night... should i do 5-5 or 6-6?

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    What's your dosing protocol with Epi and stano? The sides you're describing are pretty typical. Other than CEL assist what other support supps do you have?
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    What exactly do you mean "your liver was hurting"?
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    your liver cant feel pain man haha, guarnetee its just your stomach acting up. take your epi with a meal. and yes you get insane aggression on prohormones. the aggression i get from epi is stronger than what i have gotten from either anavar or deca

    also, epi isnt going to trash your liver, it is a very mild methyl in terms of hepatotoxicity
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    [QUOTE="TheJminator;3932736"]your liver cant feel pain man haha, guarnetee its just your stomach

    Tell that to an alcoholic who has been drinking everyday for 20 yrs and see what he says lol. I'm pretty sure your liver can feel pain
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    Quote Originally Posted by navy View Post

    . but today my liver was hurting a lot
    I know what you mean...I get the same thing some times, and I know its my liver. Does it hurt to bend forward and sharp pain when you try to breath in, in that position?
    I drop the dosage a bit and usually helps, but only got it that bad once. I always get a bit sore in liver area though usually just monitor it and make sure it doesn't get any worse or any other signs like dark urine etc.
    Should really look into getting TUDCA, milk thistle is pretty much useless for PH liver potection. TUDCA is a neccessity IMO.
    Anyway if the pain is bad enough to effect you in anyway like can't do certain movements than I would definitely stop the cycle, its better safe then needing a liver transplant. If it's just a dull pain then I would just continue on and monitor, maybe even lower dose a bit.
    Im not sure how you dose but it would probably help to split your doses up as much as possible. So say for example if ure taking 20mg/day split it into 4x5mg doses instead of 2x10mg. Stops your liver being hit with such big dodes at once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJminator View Post
    your liver cant feel pain man haha, guarnetee its just your stomach acting up.
    Trust me you can feel pain from your liver.
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    Unless you have a pre-existing conditon I can't believe after two weeks your liver is so inflamed or messed up it hurts. Your lethargy is also so bad after 2 weeks you quit during your workout? Stop taking the epi, run an OTC pct, and do not try aas again.
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    Btw what is your bf%?
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    well I at least am a 25 yr old male in what would be considered extemely good physical condition even compared to others my age. And I know that within a few days of taking DMZ or any other PH really I get a dull ache in my lower RH side and once got really bad couldn't bend over at all without serious pain..It clears up within a few days of ceasingg PH so is obviously due directly to their use and is almost certainly my liver. Do you think this means I have a pre existing condition? Like I said after discontinuation everything goes back to normal with no after effects at all..
    Oh and I used to be quite a big drinker in my younger years. Nothing alcoholic type though just like going out 3 times a week and getting absolute moggot stumbling drunk...
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    lol problems after two weeks of epistane? op you must have anxiety, or youre a heavy drinker. either way, just do otc pct and never run anabolics again. youre mind isnt in the right place for this stuff
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    lol problems after two weeks of epistane? op you must have anxiety, or youre a heavy drinker. either way, just do otc pct and never run anabolics again. youre mind isnt in the right place for this stuff
    Mate..Don't listen to this dude. Except maybe on the don't do Prohormones again thing, he could be right there..
    Me and you both know it's not in your mind and it's hard for others who have never experienced anything like this to understand... It a definit pain from liver area... Just monitor closely...seperate your doses, even if there 10mg caps I'd buy empty caps of ebay and halve em and split dosages more that way. If pain gets worse discontinue cycle, and maybe move to a less harsh compound and see how you react (you are running one of the harshest compounds!)
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanghetto View Post
    Mate..Don't listen to this dude. Except maybe on the don't do Prohormones again thing, he could be right there..
    Me and you both know it's not in your mind and it's hard for others who have never experienced anything like this to understand... It a definit pain from liver area... Just monitor closely...seperate your doses, even if there 10mg caps I'd buy empty caps of ebay and halve em and split dosages more that way. If pain gets worse discontinue cycle, and maybe move to a less harsh compound and see how you react (you are running one of the harshest compounds!)
    Do qyou get bloodwork done post cycle to get bloodwork and lipid values looked at? You are giving out terrible advice, op should stop epi is not that harsh
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post
    Do qyou get bloodwork done post cycle to get bloodwork and lipid values looked at? You are giving out terrible advice, op should stop epi is not that harsh

    So how am I giving out terrible advice?
    That pretty much what I said....monitor and if gets worse stop... If anything Im the one person on this thread giving helpfull tips instead of just "your imagining it" which everyone else is saying...
    Get me?
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    First of all your liver isn't on your lower right side like you stated earlier. Second, you are giving out terrible advice, not helpful tips, re-read my first post in the thread and onionknight's post. He should just stop all together cause he doesnt know Wtf he is doing.
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    By just reading and not knowing anything about supplements you were taking I'd be inclined to guess whats hurting is kidney related;

    However with actually reading the thread, I have to agree with the above. Just two weeks of Epi shouldn't warrant almost ANY sides...unless your a heavy drinker (or drinking at all on cycle for that matter). Or you are attempting to drink zero water while on cycle. Either of which are ridiculous, but I've seen worse.

    In any case, you should probably just stop, initiate PCT, and call it a day.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanghetto View Post
    well I at least am a 25 yr old male in what would be considered extemely good physical condition even compared to others my age. And I know that within a few days of taking DMZ or any other PH really I get a dull ache in my lower RH side and once got really bad couldn't bend over at all without serious pain..It clears up within a few days of ceasingg PH so is obviously due directly to their use and is almost certainly my liver. Do you think this means I have a pre existing condition? Like I said after discontinuation everything goes back to normal with no after effects at all..
    Oh and I used to be quite a big drinker in my younger years. Nothing alcoholic type though just like going out 3 times a week and getting absolute moggot stumbling drunk...
    liver is right under the lung, not lower right hand side. that would be your appendix, colon, or small or large intestine

    to take it a step further, nearly every doctor agrees the liver does not feel pain, the pain comes from a fatty inflamed liver pressing against nearby organs. so if it hurts to bend forward or breath, then you have a fatty liver pressing into something every time you do those movements

    to take it a step further, that means you do have a pre existing condition, and its probly fatty liver from getting drunk 3 nights a week

    youre advice is terrible. its like youre trying to convince yourself that youre fine and normal by telling someone else that his sides are normal. but the thing is that liver area pain isnt normal on epistane,especially 2 weeks in
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    I have ran some pretty strong PH cycles. I have only had problems once and that was because I had a crap liver support. Try something like Organ Shield and double the dosage, that helped me personally.
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    I'm on week 3 of epi/trenazone of my first cycle ever and I barely feel any sides at all. All I've got is a mild increase in acne, and my balls are a little on the pathetic side. Other than that I feel pretty fantastic.

    Why didnt you run a preload? pretty much every log i did research on says to preload.... and for obvious reasons.

    These guys might sound harsh that you probably arent the kind of person to run anabolics, but they might be right. If you didnt have the self control to do this the right way, then you probably dont have the kind of discipline to do this entirely.
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    Organ shield and lots of it. Its cheap so running it at double dose us still very cost effective and its an awesome support supp.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popeisdope View Post
    I'm on week 3 of epi/trenazone of my first cycle ever and I barely feel any sides at all. All I've got is a mild increase in acne, and my balls are a little on the pathetic side. Other than that I feel pretty fantastic.

    Why didnt you run a preload? pretty much every log i did research on says to preload.... and for obvious reasons.

    These guys might sound harsh that you probably arent the kind of person to run anabolics, but they might be right. If you didnt have the self control to do this the right way, then you probably dont have the kind of discipline to do this entirely.
    Yea not to mention there are liver supports that you can use daily and they are well priced. I never actually stop taking a liver support. I just go stronger on cycles. (usually bump up 2 weeks before cycle and run a strong liver support till the end of my pct)
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    so if it hurts to bend forward or breath, then you have a fatty inflamed liver pressing into something every time you do those movements
    Yeah exactly, an inflamed liver... FROM THE PH I'M TAKING. If it was due just to having a fatty liver than it's a pretty big coincidence that it only starts to happen 3 days into superdrol run and ceases 3 days after stopping?...
    Causes aches all through rear lower back too.
    So it's obviously the PH that's inflaming it..(not saying it couldn't be assisted from pre-fattiness).
    Like I said I've only got it real bad once.
    So once again I don't see how my 'monitor and if gets worse stop advice is bad?'
    Seems to me like you's are just jumping on the typical safety/ stop you don't know what your doing and im so experienced, bandwagon that has no possibility of creating any kind of negative response, that a lot seem to prescribe to here in order to get a good rep....

    I'm giving advice from experience with what I believe is the same thing. And I don't think any of it was at all harmfull...So I don't know why i'm getting blasted here lol...

    But i'm about to get more i'm sure, ahaha....

    I admit if i'm wrong, and am sorry... was just trying to tell what I believed was the helpfull truth...I don't take or expect anyone else to take what they hear on this forum as absolute truth as most of us aren't qualified to dish out any advice.. I would expect them to consult a professional (doctor/physiologist etc.)

    Sorryyyy my bad....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Popeisdope View Post
    I'm on week 3 of epi/trenazone of my first cycle ever and I barely feel any sides at all. All I've got is a mild increase in acne, and my balls are a little on the pathetic side. Other than that I feel pretty fantastic.
    Trenazone shuts you down hard n fast aye?... Total libido killer for me...I find my self jerking it just because I know "I should" and it's not normal for me to not have not got one away in 5 days, and still have no real urge.. lol!! At least that's my experience with it...And terrible lethargy helped a bit by stacking with stano-drol..
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    I'm gonna get flamed for this but I can tell you I has stacked Superdrol and abombs with zero cycle support. Liver supps are really over rated on cycle. Much more important during pct and weeks after.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stopstalking View Post
    I'm gonna get flamed for this but I can tell you I has stacked Superdrol and abombs with zero cycle support. Liver supps are really over rated on cycle. Much more important during pct and weeks after.
    I mean you get ONE liver in your life. Why not take care of it. You can have sex with 100 girls raw dog, MAYBE not get an STD that causes painful sore on your penis. But you get ONE penis and you wrap that sucker dont you??
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    Any chance youre just getting back pumps. Dull burning ache on the right hand side of your back? That's not your liver.

    Edit* unless you meant the front, in which case I believe that's the appendix and gallbladder region. Which I actually got pain from an hdrol cycle, felt like severe bloating. Doctor checked it out and said it could be gallstones, as soon as I stopped it went away, liver values were good. Either way, if it's hurting and not helping, drop it and PCT.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PumpHouse View Post
    Any chance youre just getting back pumps. Dull burning ache on the right hand side of your back? That's not your liver.

    Edit* unless you meant the front, in which case I believe that's the appendix and gallbladder region. Which I actually got pain from an hdrol cycle, felt like severe bloating. Doctor checked it out and said it could be gallstones, as soon as I stopped it went away, liver values were good. Either way, if it's hurting and not helping, drop it and PCT.
    Sound like what I get?.....Gallstones?.... hope not lol, doubt it though.
    Yeah mine stops a few days after stopping cycle.
    Are PH's known to have an effect on the appendix? Is it common. I'm not even sure what the appendix actually does LOL...'Oh well' if you have to destroy an organ it might as well be the one you can live without I guess.. LOL....
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    I tried sd for 4 days 7 months after i used havoc(which i gained mostly fat and water from, not exactly lean gains). Instant liver area pain... Just got worse and got really lethargic..so i stopped , in 2 days pain was gone, never touched any aas since, big enough naturally to get roid accusations anyway. Why bother screwing up my hormones and wallet for so little.
    I have seen great gains from havoc and sd in fairly untrained people, but for those who have trained and gained up to their genetic max naturally, long aas test/gh etc is needed for big gains...even dudes i know who compete, who got really big before theyvturned to the dark side.. expects like 5-10lbs gains a year from long cycles of gear.
    20lbs gains is what skinny dudes get... Eat enough first,food is the best "anabolic"
    so i really see why people use them, a great shortcut;-)

    If i ever decide to use gear in the future, it would be test...you ll feel awsome, and hardly strain the liver...heart kidneys is another matter in the long run

    Suggestion, get off it and start pct. Your body does not like this shait... Not everyone tolerates this stuff..
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanghetto View Post

    Sound like what I get?.....Gallstones?.... hope not lol, doubt it though.
    Yeah mine stops a few days after stopping cycle.
    Are PH's known to have an effect on the appendix? Is it common. I'm not even sure what the appendix actually does LOL...'Oh well' if you have to destroy an organ it might as well be the one you can live without I guess.. LOL....
    I don't know if it's common, but hdrol in general gave me quite a bit of gastric distress.
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    How about taking UDCA and let all this nonsense go. While you could just have preconditioned liver problems and the Epistane has caused the problem to get significantly worse OR it is something else entirely. To be sure, just get some UDCA. There is a reputable site that sells research chems and also offers this in pill form, which I have verified by logging blood results after an SD/Trenazone/H-Drol run, that it is legit UDCA.

    Cant source so dont ask. Search.

    I'm on week 4 of SD and going strong. Why? I ran UDCA for the past 3 weeks at a measily 250mg/day and I stayed off the alcohol. Granted, I have never abused my liver in the past so it generally takes these orals pretty well. Epi is weak sauce, too. I can't understand why its messin with your abdomen but I have heard of others experiencing same said issus while on 40mg Epi.

    Me personally, I have to eat Epi like candy to get results. Usually upward of 50mg/day to get some size. That's also why I don't run it, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanghetto View Post
    I know what you mean...I get the same thing some times, and I know its my liver. Does it hurt to bend forward and sharp pain when you try to breath in, in that position?
    I drop the dosage a bit and usually helps, but only got it that bad once. I always get a bit sore in liver area though usually just monitor it and make sure it doesn't get any worse or any other signs like dark urine etc.
    Should really look into getting TUDCA, milk thistle is pretty much useless for PH liver potection. TUDCA is a neccessity IMO.
    Anyway if the pain is bad enough to effect you in anyway like can't do certain movements than I would definitely stop the cycle, its better safe then needing a liver transplant. If it's just a dull pain then I would just continue on and monitor, maybe even lower dose a bit.
    Im not sure how you dose but it would probably help to split your doses up as much as possible. So say for example if ure taking 20mg/day split it into 4x5mg doses instead of 2x10mg. Stops your liver being hit with such big dodes at once.
    yes!! when i bend into different positions, and i know its toxicating on your liver thats why i figured it might be the liver lol... and its in that area.. :/
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post
    Unless you have a pre-existing conditon I can't believe after two weeks your liver is so inflamed or messed up it hurts. Your lethargy is also so bad after 2 weeks you quit during your workout? Stop taking the epi, run an OTC pct, and do not try aas again.
    well bro.. idk what to tell you.. and i didnt say it was every day, today i felt good other then just some liver pain but it wasnt much though like yesterday nothing to raise concerns... but yesterday i just felt like phuck the world..
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodbear View Post
    I tried sd for 4 days 7 months after i used havoc(which i gained mostly fat and water from, not exactly lean gains). Instant liver area pain... Just got worse and got really lethargic..so i stopped , in 2 days pain was gone, never touched any aas since, big enough naturally to get roid accusations anyway. Why bother screwing up my hormones and wallet for so little.
    I have seen great gains from havoc and sd in fairly untrained people, but for those who have trained and gained up to their genetic max naturally, long aas test/gh etc is needed for big gains...even dudes i know who compete, who got really big before theyvturned to the dark side.. expects like 5-10lbs gains a year from long cycles of gear.
    20lbs gains is what skinny dudes get... Eat enough first,food is the best "anabolic"
    so i really see why people use them, a great shortcut;-)

    If i ever decide to use gear in the future, it would be test...you ll feel awsome, and hardly strain the liver...heart kidneys is another matter in the long run

    Suggestion, get off it and start pct. Your body does not like this shait... Not everyone tolerates this stuff..
    **** idk its probably because i drank like 3-4 days a week before the cycle for the couple of weeks leading into it lol... im gona give it another go and see if the liver pain gets any worst... im on 30mg a day atm, on my 2nd week.. bumping it to 40 next weekk.... peppering my angus.
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    Quote Originally Posted by seanghetto View Post
    Mate..Don't listen to this dude. Except maybe on the don't do Prohormones again thing, he could be right there..
    Me and you both know it's not in your mind and it's hard for others who have never experienced anything like this to understand... It a definit pain from liver area... Just monitor closely...seperate your doses, even if there 10mg caps I'd buy empty caps of ebay and halve em and split dosages more that way. If pain gets worse discontinue cycle, and maybe move to a less harsh compound and see how you react (you are running one of the harshest compounds!)
    thanks for the help bro, this is probably what im going to do... idk what to say other then i did drink a lot before the cycle, but i dont drink now... and its not like i said every day is like that.. the pain wasnt as bad today and my mood was good, im just gona monitor it for the rest of the week... and start 40mg next week see how it works out, but i am only taking cycle assisnt and multis, should i up my cycle assist dosage though?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    How about taking UDCA and let all this nonsense go. While you could just have preconditioned liver problems and the Epistane has caused the problem to get significantly worse OR it is something else entirely. To be sure, just get some UDCA. There is a reputable site that sells research chems and also offers this in pill form, which I have verified by logging blood results after an SD/Trenazone/H-Drol run, that it is legit UDCA.

    Cant source so dont ask. Search.

    I'm on week 4 of SD and going strong. Why? I ran UDCA for the past 3 weeks at a measily 250mg/day and I stayed off the alcohol. Granted, I have never abused my liver in the past so it generally takes these orals pretty well. Epi is weak sauce, too. I can't understand why its messin with your abdomen but I have heard of others experiencing same said issus while on 40mg Epi.

    Me personally, I have to eat Epi like candy to get results. Usually upward of 50mg/day to get some size. That's also why I don't run it, lol.
    dang.. usually my body has never reacted badly to anything before... only thing in the supp lines is pwo dont do jack **** for me.... and i plan to do 40mg next week... hopefully ill be feeling good. im starting to see lil more vascularity on the epi so im liking it and strength isnt up too much but defenitley feeling it
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    Quote Originally Posted by navy View Post
    **** idk its probably because i drank like 3-4 days a week before the cycle for the couple of weeks leading into it lol... im gona give it another go and see if the liver pain gets any worst... im on 30mg a day atm, on my 2nd week.. bumping it to 40 next weekk.... peppering my angus.
    Please be careful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by navy View Post

    **** idk its probably because i drank like 3-4 days a week before the cycle
    Highly recommend you do not consume alcohol while on cycle due to the stress you're placing on the liver using the PH.

    My son is in the Navy. Where are you stationed?
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post
    Unless you have a pre-existing conditon I can't believe after two weeks your liver is so inflamed or messed up it hurts. Your lethargy is also so bad after 2 weeks you quit during your workout? Stop taking the epi, run an OTC pct, and do not try aas again.
    You don't need a doctor to tell you this is REALLY GOOD ADVICE. You might have some health issues that could really hurt you - like hepatitis or something. Who knows, but you're not responding the way you should.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExerciseorDie View Post
    I mean you get ONE liver in your life. Why not take care of it. You can have sex with 100 girls raw dog, MAYBE not get an STD that causes painful sore on your penis. But you get ONE penis and you wrap that sucker dont you??
    ...no. no i do not.
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    Quote Originally Posted by navy View Post
    **** idk its probably because i drank like 3-4 days a week before the cycle for the couple of weeks leading into it lol... im gona give it another go and see if the liver pain gets any worst... im on 30mg a day atm, on my 2nd week.. bumping it to 40 next weekk.... peppering my angus.
    Is there a "BEST OF" section on here bc this needs to be in it. Do you read the label and tell yourself you researched it???
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