Starting Havoc 1st Ever Cycle

[SkinnyChase]

I'm gonna to be running RPN Havoc for my first ever cycle. I've done tons and tons of research (months) and have my PCT set up and all the support supps ready to load a week in advance as well as on cycle. I'm 5'10" and weight around 155 (dont laugh) with hardly any body fat. And yes i work hard and have been on creatine mono for 6 months as well as the shakes. My question would be, my original plan was to go with 20/30/30/40/40. Not sure if I should start at 30 and stay there a week or less and run 40 the rest. Any input would be appreciated and remember I'm 155 now and would like to get NEAR 170ish when complete. I eat like a cow and will be knocking back Up Your Mass weight shakes also (they say to drink 2 a day but i might try 3) Is it unhealthy to drink an extra shake a day? Thanks.

 

[hvactech]

with in your tons of research did you review other epi cycle layouts? are you trying to all out bulk? drink as many shakes as you want, whole food is better though in that case.

 

[SkinnyChase]

with in your tons of research did you review other epi cycle layouts? are you trying to all out bulk? drink as many shakes as you want, whole food is better though in that case.

Yeah I have and from what I've seen (mostly) people recommend epi as a good first cycle to run. I was offered a bottle of SuperDrol from my brother in law but I think Havoc will be slightly less harsh and a better choice as a first cycle PH. And yes I've read success stories on epi being a good bulking PH.

 

[SkinnyChase]

with in your tons of research did you review other epi cycle layouts? are you trying to all out bulk? drink as many shakes as you want, whole food is better though in that case.

And to answer your question, yes I'm trying to all out bulk. Thanks for your response.

 

[jonpaulevans]

I'm 5'11, 238 and cycling havoc for the 4th time but I pulsed the 3 prior times. I like the pulsing results but I still recommend a PCT and support - just run support on off days and I suppose you can use a less extravagant/detailed PCT. Anyway - I am doing the same layout (20/30/30/40/40). These seem to be the numbers/doses you'll see most commonly suggested BUT you may consider starting with lower doses - (10/20/30/30/40). So my 2 cents is to say absolutely not to start at 30.

also - stop creatine and start cycle supps for two weeks prior to first day of havoc.

can you lay out any more details of your plan?

 

[SkinnyChase]

Start out at 10? That's awfully low. Even with first timers I've read a lot about starting no lower than 30. Even on the "Havoc Bible" says first time users should start at 30 and that 40 is the sweet spot for most users. And stop the creatine? I thought it was ok to use creatine during cycle... Can you elaborate on why to stop it? I'll be taking CEL Cycle Assist, Multi, Fish Oil, CoQ10 and Liv52 on cycle. And I ordered Reversitol and PCT Assist but I'm thinking I should reconsider a SERM since a ton of people suggest it. And I'll be eating as much as my stomach can handle without puking. Somewhere around 5k cals a day if I can do it. Lots of meats, eggs, dairy. Hardly any caffeine except my morning coffee. Think 20/30/30/40 would be good? And if all is good, add another week of 40? I just don't want to loose the benefit of it by starting too low.

 

[SkinnyChase]

Also I'll be working out 4-5 a week. Maxing out on every rep.

 

[jonpaulevans]

I haven't heard anyone jumping up 15 lean pounds from Havoc (well, we've all read some bs claims - I'm talking about real life results). Perhaps after several clean and solid cycles. I would assume you're a hard-gainer with a high metabolism so putting on 15 pounds in 5-8 weeks will be next to impossible so take it slow and be happy with whatever gains you get.

 

[jonpaulevans]

yeah maybe the first 3-4 days should be 10 then go to 20. I don't recall reading about beginners starting at 30 though (I could be wrong).
Stop creatine bc creatine taxes the liver and it tends to make cramps worse and makes pumps (mainly back pumps) nearly debilitating.

also - take havoc in two doses (when dosing over 20mg) in the first half of day and take support last half of day.

 

[Montego1]

Let's see. If you are truly a hard gainer eat whatever the he'll you want. You don't need a "clean" diet if you can't put on weight. Make sure your protein and carbs are high. Ice cream pizza whatever it doesn't matter especially since you will be on a steroid. And if I were you and I was bulking, Halodrol is a much better option imo.

And stopping creatine is silly. Don't do that.

50/50/75/75/75/100

 

[jonpaulevans]

Also I'll be working out 4-5 a week. Maxing out on every rep.

recipe for disaster. I believe in the idea that while on cycle you should extend time under tension - heavy iron and high reps (8-12). that being said I work out everyday with a 3 day split (legs/chest/back) each workout is 1 or 2 basic compound moves - you can check out my workout log and even see my other threads on my cycle

 

[SkinnyChase]

Yeah I am a hard gainer and I'm not expecting a 15lb gain I'm just setting a goal (maybe far fetched) but its what I'm going to work for. I'll be stuffing my face every day and we will see what happens. I could care less if some is fat, right now I'm mostly concerned with gaining weight period. I'll cut later if need be. And I hate to ask this, but could you message me if you know a good source for a SERM? I can't find any that look legit. Thanks again for your time. And the place I saw starting at 30, is to google Havoc Bible and it's the first result you'll see. Just a detailed write up of everything on Epi/Havoc

 

[Montego1]

yeah maybe the first 3-4 days should be 10 then go to 20. I don't recall reading about beginners starting at 30 though (I could be wrong).
Stop creatine bc creatine taxes the liver and it tends to make cramps worse and makes pumps (mainly back pumps) nearly debilitating.

also - take havoc in two doses (when dosing over 20mg) in the first half of day and take support last half of day.

Cramps yes. Back pumps no. Taurine for back pumps. Also unless you take high doses 15+ grams every day for a long time like for 6 months creatine isn't going to affect your liver. And if u are splitting doses take havoc upon waking, cycle support 4 hours later, Havoc 4 hours later, cycle supports 4 hours later.

 

[AngryOldMan]

You should post your workout routine so we can help you fine tune that. It might help you get the most out of this cycle.

 

[SkinnyChase]

Don't laugh. I live in a small, and I mean SMALL town where there is not a gym. I have a wife & 2 young kiddos to tend to so working out will be at home with the materials I have. I have adjustable dumbbells that go up to 50lbs right now and I can do most workouts at 40lbs and at the end of a set (alternating bicep curls) , I'm struggling to finish. I can work pretty much all upper body with those doing various workouts with the maximum weights i can lift. But as I get stronger, I will get more weights. As far as legs, idk what I can do there except for weight lunges, leg lifts and such. What would be a good actual workout plan? Like I mean work this Monday this Tuesday this Wednesday then off and so on. Any input will be appreciated.

 

[SkinnyChase]

Also I'm not pulsing the doses. I'm taking a normal cycle of Havoc. So I'll be taking one upon waking and then 4 hours later my Cycle Assist and then my Havoc and again 4 hours later Cycle Assist.

 

[SkinnyChase]

Let's see. If you are truly a hard gainer eat whatever the he'll you want. You don't need a "clean" diet if you can't put on weight. Make sure your protein and carbs are high. Ice cream pizza whatever it doesn't matter especially since you will be on a steroid. And if I were you and I was bulking, Halodrol is a much better option imo.

And stopping creatine is silly. Don't do that.

50/50/75/75/75/100

And yes I'm a a hard gainer. 110%. And trust me, I'll be taking that advice and eating anything I can get my hands on. And I will continue creatine unless I can tell its making things worse. Here's to the best and a good first cycle

 

[SkinnyChase]

No one else has anything to say? Chime in! Let me hear your opinions. I'm stoked to be doing this cycle and the more input I have the better it will go!

 

[hvactech]

for an all out bulk i would look into other compounds. i gained 16 lbs on mechabol and had zero sides....

 

[SkinnyChase]

for an all out bulk i would look into other compounds. i gained 16 lbs on mechabol and had zero sides....

Damn. Well, I'm going to run Havoc just so ill have a cycle under my belt and then later possibly run that or SuperDrol in the future. I just want to get my feet wet and see how I react to this cycle and go from there. I have been reading more today and if I get 10lb gain or so, I'll be happy. Not looking for a complete body changer. Just something noticeable. Thanks for your input. Really appreciated.

 

[jonpaulevans]

yikes - with 50 lb max db's I'm not sure there is much you should expect. I'd say go outside with your wife. Put the car in neutral and push that son'b!tch around the block until you puke. then do some uphill sprints. that covers leg day.

do pull ups until your arms fall off the do some DB rows - thats back day

then do push ups until you make a puddle of sweat on the floor then do some over head presses or db flyes... chest day

repeat

I'm familiar with the Havoc bible - I don't recall it saying for beginners to start at 30 mg/day doses but I'll take a look again and take your word on it. That being said I can think of many other articles that rec a small dose for first week newbies.

I had nice results with pulsing. Nice enough to recommend it to people. I know a lot of ppl knock it - but have they tried it??? I'd say you should look into it given your limited resources. Extend your cycle by pulsing and get some solid, gradual gains over the course of it. I'm just some meathead but I would say without big weights youre not going to activate enough stimulation and neuro-responders to see big gains in 5 weeks - BUt go for 8-9 weeks in pulse and you may see some really decent improvement.

(....let the ridicule and objections begin) but it's a user blog where we all chime in and give our 2 cents. take it or leave it.

 

[SkinnyChase]

yikes - with 50 lb max db's I'm not sure there is much you should expect. I'd say go outside with your wife. Put the car in neutral and push that son'b!tch around the block until you puke. then do some uphill sprints. that covers leg day.

do pull ups until your arms fall off the do some DB rows - thats back day

then do push ups until you make a puddle of sweat on the floor then do some over head presses or db flyes... chest day

repeat

I'm familiar with the Havoc bible - I don't recall it saying for beginners to start at 30 mg/day doses but I'll take a look again and take your word on it. That being said I can think of many other articles that rec a small dose for first week newbies.

I had nice results with pulsing. Nice enough to recommend it to people. I know a lot of ppl knock it - but have they tried it??? I'd say you should look into it given your limited resources. Extend your cycle by pulsing and get some solid, gradual gains over the course of it. I'm just some meathead but I would say without big weights youre not going to activate enough stimulation and neuro-responders to see big gains in 5 weeks - BUt go for 8-9 weeks in pulse and you may see some really decent improvement.

(....let the ridicule and objections begin) but it's a user blog where we all chime in and give our 2 cents. take it or leave it.

Hey man I appreciate your response and passion to inform. As far as the weights go, it may not seem like a lot, but to me it is. And as I get stronger I will add more weights. And I will be doing curls, shrugs, shoulder presses, butterflys and a **** ton of crunches. And there's plenty of heavy stuff around the house that I can drag/pull for legs. Trust me, I know my body and I will be pushing it to its brink every day I workout. Plus ill be eating a **** ton of food and knocking back high calorie/protien shakes 3x a day. I know, for me, that will yeild pretty good gains.

 

[SkinnyChase]

yikes - with 50 lb max db's I'm not sure there is much you should expect. I'd say go outside with your wife. Put the car in neutral and push that son'b!tch around the block until you puke. then do some uphill sprints. that covers leg day.

do pull ups until your arms fall off the do some DB rows - thats back day

then do push ups until you make a puddle of sweat on the floor then do some over head presses or db flyes... chest day

repeat

I'm familiar with the Havoc bible - I don't recall it saying for beginners to start at 30 mg/day doses but I'll take a look again and take your word on it. That being said I can think of many other articles that rec a small dose for first week newbies.

I had nice results with pulsing. Nice enough to recommend it to people. I know a lot of ppl knock it - but have they tried it??? I'd say you should look into it given your limited resources. Extend your cycle by pulsing and get some solid, gradual gains over the course of it. I'm just some meathead but I would say without big weights youre not going to activate enough stimulation and neuro-responders to see big gains in 5 weeks - BUt go for 8-9 weeks in pulse and you may see some really decent improvement.

(....let the ridicule and objections begin) but it's a user blog where we all chime in and give our 2 cents. take it or leave it.

Here's the part off the havoc bible : Dosing

For first time Epi-Havoc users it's recommended to begin with 30mg and then slowly work it up to 40mg which is considered to be Epi-Havocs "sweet spot". More experienced users with more advanced past pro-hormone or designer steroid usage can experiment with dosages to around 60mg, however the added benefit may be negligible compared to the added sides/risk at high dosages.

 

[iparatroop]

With the weights you have you can do GVT.

Sub normal squats for goblet squats though.
Hamstring curls you may have to get a bit creative.

Other than that you shouldn't have an issue.

 

[SkinnyChase]

With the weights you have you can do GVT.

Sub normal squats for goblet squats though.
Hamstring curls you may have to get a bit creative.

Other than that you shouldn't have an issue.

Thanks for that info! Never heard of GVT until you posted that. Thinking that would be the best to do with what I have for the best possible gains?

 

[jonpaulevans]

Hey man I appreciate your response and passion to inform. As far as the weights go, it may not seem like a lot, but to me it is. And as I get stronger I will add more weights. And I will be doing curls, shrugs, shoulder presses, butterflys and a **** ton of crunches. And there's plenty of heavy stuff around the house that I can drag/pull for legs. Trust me, I know my body and I will be pushing it to its brink every day I workout. Plus ill be eating a **** ton of food and knocking back high calorie/protien shakes 3x a day. I know, for me, that will yeild pretty good gains.

I'm not being a smart-a$$ tho - seriously go push your car around the block. In high school I was 5'11 and weighed 165 at age 16. I started doing plyometrics for hockey and got huge results. I would push my car from telephone pole to telephone pole as fast as possible until I couldn't make it. dare I say its as good as heavy squats.

As far as the Havoc Bible - I prob skimmed over that part as I am not a new user. that said I know a few other hugely popular write ups on Havoc/Epi that would tell newbies to start smaller. But it's your call. I'm saying it to tell you it's more pocket friendly...prob has very little effect on the system one way or the other. I pulsed bc I am not a competitive lifter and I wanted to be economical on the wallet and my system.

 

[iparatroop]

Thanks for that info! Never heard of GVT until you posted that. Thinking that would be the best to do with what I have for the best possible gains?

I'd say aside from something like p90x this is a good option with what you have for weight. It requires little weight, just high reps, and is supposed to put lbm on each individual. I'm doing it now and it works.

 

[SkinnyChase]

I'd say aside from something like p90x this is a good option with what you have for weight. It requires little weight, just high reps, and is supposed to put lbm on each individual. I'm doing it now and it works.

Cool thanks again.

 

[SkinnyChase]

Took my first dose this morning (4am) bright and WAY to early. I'll be taking my cycle assist at around 8 and my Creatine around 10. Can't wait to hit the weights tonight.

 

[SkinnyChase]

Got some of my bottles! Can't wait!

 

[SkinnyChase]

Day 1 of Havoc cycle. Not much as far as size wise just definition showing more.

 

[iparatroop]

You won't see anything for a while. Be patient, stick to your guns. You're gonna feel it before you see it.

 

[SkinnyChase]

You won't see anything for a while. Be patient, stick to your guns. You're gonna feel it before you see it.

Oh I hear ya. It's mostly a placebo thing right now. But I will be patient and still hit it hard.