Using stimulants while taking PHs
- 12-15-2004, 03:01 PM
Using stimulants while taking PHs
Since PHs can raise blood pressure and have other negative cardiovascular consequences, what are some opinions/info members of AM have re: using stimulants like caffeine or ephedra while on-cycle? Does it depend on which PHs you use?
What about cardio? Do you cut back on cardio if you are using stimulants & PHs. Do you use intense cardio sessions while on PH period?
- 12-15-2004, 03:12 PM
Originally Posted by shootmeagain
if i am bulking i dont touch cardio. the heart rate increases i get from solid workouts satisfy any need to keep my heart in tip-top shape, and when i am trying to pack on lbs during a cycle i need every calorie i can get.
i've heard differing opinions about cardio during cutting cycles, but as i generally keep calories at normal ~4000 (to maintain muscle mass) i personally use cardio when doing any serious cutting.
- 12-15-2004, 06:09 PM
I am doing cardio 20-30 minutes daily at a cardio training heart rate even though I am on a bulk cycle right now. I hope this will minimize fat gains, and not hinder my muscle gains by much. I usually stick to 20 minutes daily, just so I will not get out of shape cardiovascularly. Any suggestions?
I am on a 1-test, m4ohn, 4ad stack.
5-11, 175lb with low body fat
Diet consists of very high protein, moderate carbs.
12-16-2004, 10:23 AM
every body is different, and i'm not you. if you want to gain weight (generally one of the goals of a bulking cycle) then you need a caloric surplus to maximize those gains (good PH cycles will be able to add pounds without a surplus, but i say if you're gonna bulk- bulk)Originally Posted by timogburn
my pic thread shows me with my on-cycle bloat and fat loaded on, and then after-cycle - more lean and i didnt use cardio or stimulants (also added calories during PCT)
i dont know where it stands now, but i would personally increase my low-GI carb intake, say, like this:
>200g protein = 800 cals
500-600g carbs = 2000-2400cals
~50g fat = 450cals
3250-3650cals = pretty decent for a 175-pounder. definitely put on quality weight. if by "moderate" you mean <300g, then it seems to me that the cals just wouldnt be sufficient for putting on maximum muscle.
12-19-2004, 09:53 AM
12-19-2004, 02:19 PM
Yeah, good info.
I more or less was asking because I was just thinking, if I am using PH (which have negative effects cardiovascular-wise) and then take ephedra... if I get to running on a treadmill... I don't want my heart to explode.
Just wondering how others dealt with this concern? I have heard some people say that they don't use stimulants while on PH, or, if they use PH and stimulants together they avoid cardio, etc.
I'm not overly concerned or anything... I know my own body and what has worked for me thus far, just wanting to get some others' experiences/thoughts.
12-19-2004, 04:50 PM
It depents which ph's your taking. I wouldn't consider cutting cardio out in a cutting cycle an option.
If you take a stroid that raises bp, then don't take stimulints ontop of that or you'll be jacked, jittery and nervous the whole, day. Tired, but unable to rest or relax.
So really it just depends on what your taking.
12-19-2004, 05:15 PM
Adding a stim like EC, YC , chocamine, Triac, etc,. to a cutter like M4OHN adds a strongly positive effect. As was said, the use of a stim depends on PH and goals, along with personal experience and tolerance to it's use.
I always look for suplementary cofactors to add to a PH cycle to increase effectiveness, for example a stim to a cutter and something like CEE to a bulker, the 1+1=3 synergistic effect of building on the foundation of a PH(s) alone.
12-19-2004, 09:52 PM
I personally would stay off ephedra/ephedrine while on ph/phs.
There is a potentially synergistic effect wth androgens to increase prostate hypertropy.
12-19-2004, 11:34 PM
What's that supposed to mean? First of all, I am on a bulk cycle, while trying to minimize fat gains. I am not trying to eat myself into oblivion. I don't care if I don't get the 100% of potential gains. That is why I am continuing to do cardio everyday, and not go crazy on calsLeave anabolic cutting cycles to the pro's
12-20-2004, 09:37 AM
IMO - doing one of the two:Originally Posted by timogburn
2) keeping cals low
is probably OK on a bulking cycle (although i wouldnt do it personally). either one will most certainly hinder gains (especially #2) but you'll still make some gains....HOWEVER: doing BOTH is almost asking to add virtually no muscle mass. 20 minutes a day on ~2500? cals - with what is your body supposed to use to put on muscle? here are a couple arguments:
hormones are not to be taken lightly. they tamper with a very sensitive chemical system and can have far-reaching negative impacts if not used properly. if i could accomplish through diet what i can with PH, i would just use diet. i can put on 5lbs in 6 weeks using absolutely perfect diet and non-hormonal substances, but thats about it, and i will lose those pounds if i dont keep that diet absolutely perfect (ever tried this? eat like an absolute champ for a month and watch the muscle pack on, only to be lost if you return to previous, maintainable diet?). PH use puts on pounds that, if done right, dont go away even with simple caloric maintenance (still high of course) and contrary to caloric increases: when the cycle is over, you will NOT be fatter than when you started (this is through diet manipluation - something many fail to do properly and end up a little fatter, necessitating cutting cycles) if you look at guys who have juiced in the past - many of them are STILL muscular, even if their diets go to ****.
anyway, that's why i say to extract the most possible result from a PH cycle. you only get to do a few of them (unless you stock up) and the fat/water lbs you put on will come off very easily. if you're gonna spend the money and take the time and the risk: maximize the benefit, and also go with what works.
12-20-2004, 12:28 PM
MOHN w/ Amphetamines
From my exp it is all right to mix stimulants w/ PHs / PSs, just start out with really low doses. I know when I use MOHN and mix it with ephedra or even Amphetamines the effect of the stimulant drug is much greater. (even at 10mg of Adderall / day I felt like I was on 30 mg of adderall when mixing with MOHN) Don’t do cardio while on both, you may over exert yourself. (Amphetamines delay the sense of fatigue). Just start out with a real low dose of the stimulant and only go up if you are sure that your body can handle it.
12-20-2004, 12:44 PM
Agreed.Originally Posted by THEBRAKES
Not to mention that cutting calories can lower test levels even without PH / juice. Bulking even through post-cycle is the way to go.
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