Blood work at start of cycle

lboston

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Gents-

Been doing 400mg of test cyp per week and using mainly PES Erase at 2 caps a day as my AI.
I want to get my labs done to make sure Erase is enough to control my E2 (and ensure I'm not on my way to sprouting a nice lady pair).

I'll be "on" 2 weeks as of this upcoming Sunday. Has it been enough time to really tell if I were wanting to get these labs drawn like tomorrow...or Monday.

I'll post back with the results after I have them.
 
BlackGT99

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Gents-

Been doing 400mg of test cyp per week and using mainly PES Erase at 2 caps a day as my AI.
I want to get my labs done to make sure Erase is enough to control my E2 (and ensure I'm not on my way to sprouting a nice lady pair).

I'll be "on" 2 weeks as of this upcoming Sunday. Has it been enough time to really tell if I were wanting to get these labs drawn like tomorrow...or Monday.

I'll post back with the results after I have them.
Interested to see of Erase holds up for estro control. 2wks so that's 4 injections? I think that should be enough time, but perhaps you should wait another two weeks?
 
lboston

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Interested to see of Erase holds up for estro control. 2wks so that's 4 injections? I think that should be enough time, but perhaps you should wait another two weeks?
Yeah, it's been 4 injections. Each at 200mg. I'm very interested as well. In a way if like to wait a couple more just to see, but at these time, I'd like to ease my mind about what I think is an itchy chest!
 
lboston

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Yeah, it's been 4 injections. Each at 200mg. I'm very interested as well. In a way if like to wait a couple more just to see, but at these time, I'd like to ease my mind about what I think is an itchy chest!
Can't type on this phone. That's supposed to be..in a way I'd like to see...then at the same time..
 
fueledpassion

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Well, Test-C (and E as well) will continually ramp up a little more each week due to the half-life vs. the dosing protocol.

So what you see at week 3 will not reflect the amount of test you see at week 5, 6 or 7. Generally speaking, week 4 or 5 will bring full effects of Test-C, maybe even later like week 7.
 
fueledpassion

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Yeah, it's been 4 injections. Each at 200mg. I'm very interested as well. In a way if like to wait a couple more just to see, but at these time, I'd like to ease my mind about what I think is an itchy chest!
Itchy chest + Arimidex = Mind at ease
 

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I would bump it up to 3 caps/day. And, reassess after a week.
 
lboston

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Thanks for the feedback, guys.

So, fueled passion, are you suggesting that right now labs wouldn't give a true look at how my E2 will be on cycle an if Erase is working?
 
lboston

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Would it make a difference if I fasted or not for the hormone panel for females from private md labs?
 
fueledpassion

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Would it make a difference if I fasted or not for the hormone panel for females from private md labs?

Things to keep consistent if you are going to take multiple tests:

1) Fasted state
2) Same day of week
3) Same time of day

All I am saying is that as your test levels rise, so will your estrogen as long as you aren't completely suppressing it with an AI. If you are taking an AI, then maybe they will stay low.

This is exactly why I always consider Masteron as an essential item for Test cycles. No AI's are needed with Masteron in the picture.
 
lboston

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Ill definitely keep that in mind. Before seeing this, I had already gotten the labs drawn. Mainly I'm interested to see what Erase is doing as an AI. So, I would guess I could still tell if its working by these results??

My last injection was Wednesday night. These labs were drawn at 1015.

I wasn't fasted, so I know the CBC and CMP results may not be accurate. Okay with that. Have all that from labs done about a month or so ago.

So, I'm assuming if my testosterone levels are high and my E2 within a good range, Erase may work as an AI on a 400mg/ week cycle. If it doesn't look good--guess ill be shopping!
 
lboston

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Results from Labcorp are back...
Not real sure what I should do from here on..

ALT 63 (0-44) HIGH
AST 85 (0-40) HIGH
Testosterone is > 1500 HIGH
Estradiol 81.6 (7.6-42.6) HIGH

Does that high of E2 put me at risk for gyno or anything else? Also concerned about the elevated liver values.

Not sure If I keep going with cycle or stop it now. My liver values have always been a point, or so, higher than the scale, but not this much.

Everything else on the panel is within range. Any insight/ advice is appreciated.

LB
 
fueledpassion

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Gyno doesnt happen over night. You'll feel itchy, burning sensation...then to more painful feelings and lumps. Even then, an AI will reverse it. Arimidex is good because it lowers estrogen without killing it altogether. Another good one is Exemestane. Letro IMO is too harsh and should only be used by the super senstivie users.

Next time run Masteron @ 300-400mg/week with test and you should be fine.
 
lboston

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Gyno doesnt happen over night. You'll feel itchy, burning sensation...then to more painful feelings and lumps. Even then, an AI will reverse it. Arimidex is good because it lowers estrogen without killing it altogether. Another good one is Exemestane. Letro IMO is too harsh and should only be used by the super senstivie users.

Next time run Masteron @ 300-400mg/week with test and you should be fine.
Thanks. Is E2 in the 80s something to be terribly concerned with when using test a 400mg/ week?

I'm not holding water, slight itch in the nipples, but nothing painful.

I have aromasin from a research site. Not sure how good it is though. After ordering from the site, i saw some bad reviews on their AIs.

What's your thoughts on the liver values?
 
fueledpassion

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Regarding your liver values, this is one key reason why you should be in a fasted, non-recovery state when taking bloods. I remember when I took liver values immediately after discontinuing my orals, and my values came back in the normal values, then a week later, they came back pretty high.

The lesson learned? Three heavy beers the night before plus recovery from training earlier that same evening caused my liver values to be elevated and remained high. If you are really that worried about it, get some TUDCA or UDCA along with milk-thistle and run those for the next few weeks and lay off the beer and you should be fine.
 
lboston

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Regarding your liver values, this is one key reason why you should be in a fasted, non-recovery state when taking bloods. I remember when I took liver values immediately after discontinuing my orals, and my values came back in the normal values, then a week later, they came back pretty high.

The lesson learned? Three heavy beers the night before plus recovery from training earlier that same evening caused my liver values to be elevated and remained high. If you are really that worried about it, get some TUDCA or UDCA along with milk-thistle and run those for the next few weeks and lay off the beer and you should be fine.
Thanks man. Fasted state definitely makes sense. What would you reccomend for the high E2. Is it that high considering test is >1500? I've been taking erase, but these labs are with the Erase @ 2 caps.

The aromasin I have makes me feel like sh!t and my face gets flushed. Energy and mood also tank. Took 25mgs of that today...no Erase today.
 
GreenEarth

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A little hard to say objectively since you weren't fasted. The liver values do seem strange, though...test may be slightly hepatotoxic, but not to the degree that your numbers are reading, and I wouldn't think an AI like Erase would have much effect on them either.

If it were me, I would want the estrogen levels lower. You are taking a substance that aromatizes, so it's not "unusual" to have higher estro levels, but if you're taking an AI to control them, you may as well make sure they're controlled to where you want them. If you like suicide inhibation like erase offers, aromasin will be the direction you want to go. If 25mg is giving you the sides you describe above, you may attempt half that dosage taken daily instead. 24-hour half life means that ED will show the best results. Otherwise, Adex is always a viable option as well.
 
lboston

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A little hard to say objectively since you weren't fasted. The liver values do seem strange, though...test may be slightly hepatotoxic, but not to the degree that your numbers are reading, and I wouldn't think an AI like Erase would have much effect on them either.

If it were me, I would want the estrogen levels lower. You are taking a substance that aromatizes, so it's not "unusual" to have higher estro levels, but if you're taking an AI to control them, you may as well make sure they're controlled to where you want them. If you like suicide inhibation like erase offers, aromasin will be the direction you want to go. If 25mg is giving you the sides you describe above, you may attempt half that dosage taken daily instead. 24-hour half life means that ED will show the best results. Otherwise, Adex is always a viable option as well.
Thanks for the reply.

The liver values are odd. I am on dioxycycline for acne, which is an antibiotic, and I'm wondering if that could be part of it.

I took two erase caps again this morning an it's amazing how much different I seem to feel after taking erase compared to the aromasin I have. The aromasin makes me feel like garbage, yet with the erase I feel great.

With T over 1500 on the scale, is 80's for E2 really that high?
 
fueledpassion

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Thanks for the reply.

The liver values are odd. I am on dioxycycline for acne, which is an antibiotic, and I'm wondering if that could be part of it.

I took two erase caps again this morning an it's amazing how much different I seem to feel after taking erase compared to the aromasin I have. The aromasin makes me feel like garbage, yet with the erase I feel great.

With T over 1500 on the scale, is 80's for E2 really that high?[/
QUOTE]

No, it isn't that high when considering the ratio, which is what matters most.

12.5mg ED is enough on Aromasin to work well without tanking your estrogen. Listen to your body though. If Erase makes you feel great without the itchy, lumpy nips -- then go for it instead.

Liver values could very well be affected by the acne drug. Again, just purchase some TUDCA (Aegis) from Antaeus Labs and you'll be fine regardless.
 
lboston

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Going to stick with erase for now unless I get an itchy/ lumpy chest. I feel pretty good. However, my mood changes a lot throughout the day, but that could be fatigue ,stress, etc.

Also-I'm going to stop the dioxycycline and see what the next set of labs look like. If they still look high, then I'll get the TUDCA.

I think the aromasin I bought is no good. The research co I got it from seems to have hit or miss reviews with their AIs as of late....
 
GreenEarth

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I probably know the company you've purchased if from, given your description...there are better research chem sites to buy exemestane from, although to be completely honest, when it comes to AIs and SERMS I always buy from an oversea pharmacy. More expensive certainly, but getting legitimate pharmaceuticals is worth it for me in regards to drugs that will prevent gyno or are relied upon to bring my endocrine system back to homeostasis.

Both of these will be of interest to you:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1332350
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17875115
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/doxycycline/hepatotoxicity

Seems that it might be mildly hepatotoxic, but I'm not sure if it would constitute the liver readings you're receiving. As you can tell, the majority of people who experience hepatic injury on doxycycline see it within the first month, with less people seeing it somewhere within the first 6 months, and basically no one seeing it after that (assuming they haven't seen increased liver values leading up to that point). With that in mind, the question I have for you is: when did you start doxycycline, and were you having bloodwork done before starting your cycle?
 
lboston

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Green Earth. Going to have to check these links out when my daughter goes to bed. Thanks for taking the time to share these.

I had bloods take a week or two prior to staring the cycle...liver values reading as they always have. Slightly high. The next set was taken nearly right at a month after starting the dioxy.
I'm going to stop taking it and see if they return.
 
GreenEarth

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lboston, your inbox is full. Can't PM you back, please clear when you get a chance. I'll save my response in the meantime.
 

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