Is it possible to overtrain on a PH???

  1. Is it possible to overtrain on a PH???


    I am on my 5th week of a 6 week cycle of havoc 4 caps/day and Halo extreme 2 caps/day. I cant tell if I am overtraining or just get some sides from the supps. I feel tired throughout the day I get about 8-9 of sleep a night and wake up not feeling rested.

    Personal info
    5'11"
    205 lbs
    8% BF
    7 years of lifting

    My training regimen
    Mondays: BJJ (1 hr), back and bi's (1-1.5 hrs), 15 min interval cardio, core (15 min)
    Tuesdays: Wrestling (1 hr), boxing(1 hr), Chest tri's (45 min), abs(15 min)
    Wednesdays: BJJ(1 hr), legs(30), 15 min interval cardio
    Thursdays: Wrestling (1 hr), boxing(1 hr), shoulders(30 min), core (15 min)
    Fridays: Back and bi's(1.5 hrs), interval cardio (15 min) abs, (15 min)
    Saturdays: Chest, Tri's, and legs (1.75 hrs), 1.5 mile run
    Sundays: Off

    I am on a solid diet
    Cals: 2800's
    Fats: 78 g
    Carbs: 285 g
    Protein: 250 g
    I am eating all lean meats non processed, whole wheat carbs, fats are coming from dairy, nuts, and seeds. I have a cheat day on fridays


  2. Quote Originally Posted by whosurmama View Post
    Is it possible to overtrain on a PH???


    5'11"
    205 lbs
    8% BF


    My training regimen
    Mondays: BJJ (1 hr), back and bi's (1-1.5 hrs), 15 min interval cardio, core (15 min)
    Tuesdays: Wrestling (1 hr), boxing(1 hr), Chest tri's (45 min), abs(15 min)
    Wednesdays: BJJ(1 hr), legs(30), 15 min interval cardio
    Thursdays: Wrestling (1 hr), boxing(1 hr), shoulders(30 min), core (15 min)
    Fridays: Back and bi's(1.5 hrs), interval cardio (15 min) abs, (15 min)
    Saturdays: Chest, Tri's, and legs (1.75 hrs), 1.5 mile run
    Sundays: Off

    I am on a solid diet
    Cals: 2800's
    Fats: 78 g
    Carbs: 285 g
    Protein: 250 g
    sure is
    the answer lies in the boldened above..
    hormonal assistance will only accentuate recovery for so long, if you are not feeding the body properly

    you are undereating, for your activity level
    simple as that

  3. I would think a combination of both. I would continuously increase calories every week maybe just a small amount (around 100-200),

    The side effect of being tired is quite common on a ph or any steroid for that matter when test is not being supplemented with it. It's part of being partially or fully shutdown.
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  4. My goal is to get in great shape and get cut. The numbers i use were given to me by a program in order to loose fat and maintain muscle

  5. Quote Originally Posted by whosurmama View Post
    My goal is to get in great shape and get cut. The numbers i use were given to me by a program in order to loose fat and maintain muscle
    understood
    and you are now 5 weeks in as you say, 205# @8% bf, training in a caloric deficit..

    go figure

  6. Btw, how do you feel when you grapple and box? No cramps or pumps? Are you running also?

  7. Quote Originally Posted by alwaysfirst View Post
    Btw, how do you feel when you grapple and box? No cramps or pumps? Are you running also?
    I feel fine when I box. I get some back pumps when I grapple. I do interval training for running

  8. Quote Originally Posted by fueledpassion View Post
    I would think a combination of both. I would continuously increase calories every week maybe just a small amount (around 100-200),

    The side effect of being tired is quite common on a ph or any steroid for that matter when test is not being supplemented with it. It's part of being partially or fully shutdown.
    this is valid as well, good stuff guy

  9. With that level fo activity, at least 4000kcals/day would be much better for your performance. That's about what my maintenance was and I was ~20lbs lighter than you at the time.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  10. Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    With that level fo activity, at least 4000kcals/day would be much better for your performance. That's about what my maintenance was and I was ~20lbs lighter than you at the time.
    So even with my goal of cutting down I should consume 4000 cals/day?

  11. Quote Originally Posted by whosurmama View Post
    So even with my goal of cutting down I should consume 4000 cals/day?
    Yes because you're expending a tremendous amount of calories with that training volume.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys


  12. Thanks everybody I really appreciate it. I know I'm coming off as a dumbass but all my life i played football and its been lift big eat big. Now that I am done I wanted to get in really good shape and just went off what I have read through 100s of different of articles about getting cut. So I appreciate the help and the patience with me

  13. Quote Originally Posted by whosurmama View Post
    So even with my goal of cutting down I should consume 4000 cals/day?
    cutting down is a completely relative term. In my opinion, if your maintenance level was 4000kcals/day, I'd cut 400 out of my diet. The best way to cut without losing any muscle is to do a slow cut, imo. I've never been successful with a fast cut. Even then, you have to realize that you still will likely lose at least a little muscle mass but in general I'd consider it a success if you could pull off an 80/20 rule. 80% of the weight lost was fat, the other 20% lean tissue.

    With 400kcals cut, you could potentially be in a 2800 calorie diet deficit with just diet adjustment alone. Just do that long enough, say 12 weeks, you could burn nearly 10lbs of boyd weight off with a majority being fat. Just a thought.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by whosurmama View Post
    So even with my goal of cutting down I should consume 4000 cals/day?
    to put this in perspective:
    i weight ~same as you, my energy expenditure is nowhere near yours, and i train with bodycomp/low bf% goals always in mind..my average daily intake is 4k cals (yesterday i had 4500)
    sure metabolism plays a part, but now you are getting a sense of the massive undereating you have been doing
    you can get away with that for a little while; long-term, it will catch up with you

  15. Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    to put this in perspective:
    i weight ~same as you, my energy expenditure is nowhere near yours, and i train with bodycomp/low bf% goals always in mind..my average daily intake is 4k cals (yesterday i had 4500)
    sure metabolism plays a part, but now you are getting a sense of the massive undereating you have been doing
    you can get away with that for a little while; long-term, it will catch up with you
    Yeah, I weight 40lbs less than he does and I am eating 400-600 kcals more than he is on a 3 day powerlifting training split with 2-3 cardio sessions per week, lol.

  16. Last question. So adding in these extra calories should I gradually add them up or starting tomorrow should I consume 4000 a day

  17. Quote Originally Posted by whosurmama View Post
    Last question. So adding in these extra calories should I gradually add them up or starting tomorrow should I consume 4000 a day
    I'd be impressed if you could jump 1200 calories/day consistently. If you could, I'd get started. If you can't, do it incrementally. I just said add a few hundred calories per week to make it practical. But the reality is you have enough mass that your muscles need that many calories in order to maintain themselves given your activity level.

  18. I agree with all of the above. If you're waking up tired then I posit that your recovery is hampered due to the sheer stress put on your body by the combination of your training volume and calorie deficit. I stupidly thought the same thing last year. I trained with a heavy training volume whilst on epistane on a severe calorie deficit thinking that the PH would compensate. But it didn't. Over the course of 2 months my symptoms worsened until I started suffering from constant fatigue, insommnia and anxiety. It took me 6-9 months to fully recover with a period of 2-3 months out of the gym completely. Listen to your body.

  19. When Im training MA's or boxing I eat like a horse (mostly clean) and I stay lean.
  

  
 

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