Cant decide on which ph is best for me

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    Cant decide on which ph is best for me


    First time posting here, however not my first time cycling before. I will try and give as much information as i can so you guys can help me pick the best option.

    Height:6 ft
    Age:25
    Weight: 173lb's bf around 16-18%
    Max bench:255
    Max Squat:300
    Max Deadlift:315

    My current goals are quite diversed and not easily attained without proper planning and large amounts of dedication. Goal is to be a 180lb's cut around 10% bf. Not trying to reach this right after cycle, i know it will take time just hoping to speed the process along. Currently i do large amounts of exercise, in fact its all i do. I have a crossfit/swimming session 3 times a week MWF in the morning, Run in the afternoons MWF, and lift in the evenings MTWFS. I have built up my endurance slowly to this so im body has become accustomed to this. My goal with the ph cycle is to increase strength with clean gains, however i want to keep doing my current cardio activities. This is where the problem occurs. From what i have read over the past week and from expierecne is that PH's bring on strong pumps and the thing im most scared of "Shin Splints". I have had these my entire life until about half a year ago when i figured out i needed orthopedic soles cause my feet were messed up. Since then i have not had shin splints, and would like to avoid them. I have looked into taking many different PH's but each one i seem to come across happens to have a con of shin splints. So my question is if there are any solid PH's out there that help with endurance instead of cripple it while helping strength and mass gains to a certain extent? Some of the Ph's i have been looking at that looked appealing were stanodrol, p-mag, p-stanz, and p-plex. Done a lot of research on them and they seem to be the best choice, but if there is something i am missing, information will be greatly appreciated. If there is no way to avoid the shin splints, i would probably end up cycling m-drol for 3 weeks during the week off of running i have coming up in a couple of weeks, however i read a couple of logs in which people expierenced shin splints well into the pct which is a major concern.

    Cycled Epistane before as well as superdrol, but didnt do cardio on superdrol so i cant recall if i encountered bad shin splints. My goals then were a little different than now.

    Any information on any of this will be greatly appreciated.

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    adding lean mass while shedding fat, sounds like a good candidate for some more epistane
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    mdrol, p plex, and p stanz are all illegal in the US now, so i dont think those are options any more. and all of them are gonna give calf pumps. you can use taurine to relieve them though. they shouldnt be causing shin splints too much, thats usually from bad form while running. do you know how to pose run?
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    Had unexpected endurance boost on my last cycle of Trenazone. You could even stack with Epi if you wanted to do a stronger cycle.
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    i happen to have a extra bottle of superdrol so if that is the best bet then i can pursue that. I may be misinformed or this may be with all ph's i dont really know for sure, but isnt epi a very dry compound which would account for a lot of water retention which would create some pretty bad shin splints/pumps. I may be wrong its just what i gathered from reading other people and their logs with tren, it could just be them though and maybe they have no clue how to run properly. if not then tren solo or a tren/epi cycle. Its not as much as that i want to burn fat cause that will come over the next 6 months as i increase my cardio, its that i just want to keep doing cardio while i cycle. i dont want to hit a huge speed bump in my endurance training, however if all PH's are going to cause some sort of problem with my endurance then i would assume i might as well do superdrol and take a couple weeks off. IM not trying to sound rude at all or shut down any of your suggestions if thats how im coming off i apologize, you guys know more about this stuff that i would, just trying to find the perect ph for my thank you.
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    Been reading some more, and curious on what you guys think of a havoc or epistane cycle. I would do tren, but i cant seem to find a place to buy capsule form, not a fan of injecting it, unless u could just add the liquid to a glass of OJ and drink that and get the same effect?
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    isnt lgi's tvar tren?
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    never heard of it, but just read up a bit on it and ya it seems to be very similar, although i cant find anything on how it affects cardio. Im just worried that it may prohibit me from increasing my endurance, so im looking for a PH that wont have that effect.
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    Cant decide on which ph is best for me


    Lgi tvar I believe is the same as the phf trenavar while converts directly to trenbolone.
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    Cant decide on which ph is best for me


    What about doin 8 weeks of trenazone with something like an sdmz bridge in to epi? There's not going to be one cycle that's best. It's ultimately up to you to try it out and see how you respond. Diet and training will dictate your body comp.
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    Tren and Trenazone are two different products. Trenazone is a transdermal that I have used and liked a lot.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    i happen to have a extra bottle of superdrol so if that is the best bet then i can pursue that. I may be misinformed or this may be with all ph's i dont really know for sure, but isnt epi a very dry compound which would account for a lot of water retention which would create some pretty bad shin splints/pumps. I may be wrong its just what i gathered from reading other people and their logs with tren, it could just be them though and maybe they have no clue how to run properly. if not then tren solo or a tren/epi cycle. Its not as much as that i want to burn fat cause that will come over the next 6 months as i increase my cardio, its that i just want to keep doing cardio while i cycle. i dont want to hit a huge speed bump in my endurance training, however if all PH's are going to cause some sort of problem with my endurance then i would assume i might as well do superdrol and take a couple weeks off. IM not trying to sound rude at all or shut down any of your suggestions if thats how im coming off i apologize, you guys know more about this stuff that i would, just trying to find the perect ph for my thank you.
    superdrol will more likely cause retention, epistane is dry. when i was on mechabol/stano my cardio endurance went down hill
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    trenazone looks very appealing, but i cant seem to find any other form of it besides AL trenazone which is a liquid. So i have definetly ruled out superdrol then. Current one im looking at are going to be Lgi tvar, havoc, and or trenazone if i can find a capsule form, unless lgi tvar is the capsule form of trenazone. Really hard to find full fledged information on this, i just dont want to make the wrong decision and buy the wrong PH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    trenazone looks very appealing, but i cant seem to find any other form of it besides AL trenazone which is a liquid. So i have definetly ruled out superdrol then. Current one im looking at are going to be Lgi tvar, havoc, and or trenazone if i can find a capsule form, unless lgi tvar is the capsule form of trenazone. Really hard to find full fledged information on this, i just dont want to make the wrong decision and buy the wrong PH.

    Trenavar/TVar = PH to trenbolone

    Trenazone = trendione similar, yet lesser results of the injectable tren but less sides. Ive heard nothing but good stuff about trenazone.

    tmk trenazone/trendione is only in topical form. could be wrong though and maybe something else is just slipping my mind. And by administering trenazone topically, you're not even hitting your organs...just something to take in to consideration.

    maybe you answered this before and I didnt see it. If you did I apologize, but are you looking to stay oral only? not pushing the pinning at all, just curious if you were possibly open to a test base perhaps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    trenazone looks very appealing, but i cant seem to find any other form of it besides AL trenazone which is a liquid. So i have definetly ruled out superdrol then. Current one im looking at are going to be Lgi tvar, havoc, and or trenazone if i can find a capsule form, unless lgi tvar is the capsule form of trenazone. Really hard to find full fledged information on this, i just dont want to make the wrong decision and buy the wrong PH.
    Trenazone is a liquid transdermal, it's not in a pill or capsule anywhere. Trenazone is to be rubbed on the skin. Tenazone and tvar are not the same compound.
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    I would like to stay orally and no injectables etc. any opinion on 1,4 andro?
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    you rub it on your skin? i must have missed that part of it during research
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    you rub it on your skin? i must have missed that part of it during research
    Yes, transdermal means that you apply it to the skin. I have used it and loved it, it's a solid product. I actually just got two more bottles of it a few days ago.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    Been reading some more, and curious on what you guys think of a havoc or epistane cycle. I would do tren, but i cant seem to find a place to buy capsule form, not a fan of injecting it, unless u could just add the liquid to a glass of OJ and drink that and get the same effect?
    Haha! Ummm....negative Ghost Rider! Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by eric40817 View Post
    What about doin 8 weeks of trenazone with something like an sdmz bridge in to epi? There's not going to be one cycle that's best. It's ultimately up to you to try it out and see how you respond. Diet and training will dictate your body comp.
    Best Said^
    Judging by his current stats though seems like his frame wouldn't hold too much water during a ph like dmz. Although its known for its fluffy sides adding the epi to a decent pct would help to counteract any hormone driven negative sides.

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    Could you explain this transdermal trenazone a little more for me please, it really interests me now and im leaning towards getting this at the moment.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WPChickDiesel View Post
    Best Said^
    Judging by his current stats though seems like his frame wouldn't hold too much water during a ph like dmz. Although its known for its fluffy sides adding the epi to a decent pct would help to counteract any hormone driven negative sides.

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    Ive read many different feedbacks saying that dmz caused some water retention, also read a lot of people saying they saw lean gains with no water retention. Plus with the m-sten/dmz being combined together in the sdmz 2.0, I would think the m-sten would aid in keeping the fluff to a minimum. Then once bridged in to an epistane product it becomes shred time. Id think water should be a small issue if any with that set up. Could always ditch the sdmz in the beginning and go with epi/ment/trenazone with a low does AI throughout lol.


    Im actually considering doing the exact cycle I recommended, except ill use a dmz product, and an m-sten product rather than sdmz2.0 since I already have dmz on hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    Could you explain this transdermal trenazone a little more for me please, it really interests me now and im leaning towards getting this at the moment.
    google search Trenazone Bible. Youll find a link to TunedSports. Very informative.
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    I'm interested in a PH for endurance also...
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    I think ive decided on what i want to do and its going to be transdermal tren with havoc. Would do epi but its twice as much money and they eem to be almost identical compounds, if im wrong please let me know.

    Dont quite know wat dosages im going to do with tren and havoc and or how im going to stack them. As for support supps, the reccomended was to buy cycle assist which i can do, however i have some extra stuff around the house and im wondering if it would be okay. ill post the same supps i used for my superdrol cycle, and please let me know how this looks, willing to adjust. I figured 1 week preload, 6 week on cycle with tren unless i need more for the stack, ive never stacked something before, so this should be interesting, help would greatly appreciated. and then 4-5 week pct with nolva. Dosages are equal to what i found in that Trenazone bible link. This is just the support supplements im taking and im curious on if you guuys feel its okay or if i should cross it all off and just order some cycle assist.

    Week 1- Preload week- multi vitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, coq10, and milk thistle/liv 52
    Week2-beginning cycle-trenazone multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week3- multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week4-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week5-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week6-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week7-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week8- PCT start- nolva 20mg, multivitimin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week9- nolva 20mg, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week10- nolva 10 mg, multivtiamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week11- nolva 10mg, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week12-nolva 5mg, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
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    I found that my best results were from supertest. I really had increased amounts of energy and my lifts were much
    stronger. I found this to be true throughout my entire cycle and even part of my post. I would give this a try maybe
    stack it with winstrol caps too. That would be my suggestion good luck to you on your decision let us know!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    I think ive decided on what i want to do and its going to be transdermal tren with havoc. Would do epi but its twice as much money and they eem to be almost identical compounds, if im wrong please let me know.

    Dont quite know wat dosages im going to do with tren and havoc and or how im going to stack them. As for support supps, the reccomended was to buy cycle assist which i can do, however i have some extra stuff around the house and im wondering if it would be okay. ill post the same supps i used for my superdrol cycle, and please let me know how this looks, willing to adjust. I figured 1 week preload, 6 week on cycle with tren unless i need more for the stack, ive never stacked something before, so this should be interesting, help would greatly appreciated. and then 4-5 week pct with nolva. Dosages are equal to what i found in that Trenazone bible link. This is just the support supplements im taking and im curious on if you guuys feel its okay or if i should cross it all off and just order some cycle assist.

    Week 1- Preload week- multi vitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, coq10, and milk thistle/liv 52
    Week2-beginning cycle-trenazone multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week3- multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week4-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week5-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week6-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week7-multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry 1000mg, redyeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week8- PCT start- nolva 20mg, multivitimin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week9- nolva 20mg, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week10- nolva 10 mg, multivtiamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week11- nolva 10mg, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Week12-nolva 5mg, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorne berry1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52
    Havoc = Epi = E-Stane = Epistane. All the same compound.

    Trenazone/Havoc should be a pretty dope cycle in terms of your goals.

    you left out the dosages in your setup though, for TZone and Havoc. I would go 1mL:30mgs for the first week or two, and then if you want bump it to 1.5mL:30mgs and stick with that throughout the rest of it. If youre feeling good and sides are still at bay, try bumping the havoc to 40mgs and see how you feel. Thats what I did with havoc, and when I use it again, I wont be dosing it under 30mgs minimum.
    Theres no reason to taper down the nolva from 20 to 5mgs. just go 20/20/20/10/10. Id pick up a bottle of the og Erase and start that in the second to last week of PCT. 50mgs first week or two and then just one cap (25mgs for 3-4 weeks after that to prevent any estrogen rebound, and will help lean you out still. Could get a bottle of Lean Xtreme for cortisol control but its not necessary. Also perhaps a natty test booster like DAA @ 3g/day during pct.

    Also, if your monitoring your bp, dont be alarmed when it spikes in the beginning when you're preloading. Hawthorn tends to spike it a bit before lowering it. I think for whats its worth (unless you have this stuff already), just get an all-in-one. It will cover all your bases and its less pills to try to remember (if you get a powder one that is).
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    yeah i did not quite know how i was going to do the dosages for tren/havoc but what you suggested sounds resonable. i am also going to be taking taurine just in case of in shin/calf problems to avoid them all together. I just ordered a bottle of DAA this morning aswell.

    I really appreciate all of the help and advice you guys have beeing given me, ill post the whole cycle i plan to run in a bit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    yeah i did not quite know how i was going to do the dosages for tren/havoc but what you suggested sounds resonable. i am also going to be taking taurine just in case of in shin/calf problems to avoid them all together. I just ordered a bottle of DAA this morning aswell.

    I really appreciate all of the help and advice you guys have beeing given me, ill post the whole cycle i plan to run in a bit.
    Taurine at like 8g when your getting a pump and it should help. I didnt really get any pumps on havoc but most people do get the back pumps. I have a vertebrae thats shifted and other disc issues so I probably didnt know if it was a back pump or typical back pain lol
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    So here is the cycle i have came up with, please critique. Pretty expensive, Not sure if its necessary that i need 2 bottles of havoc and 2 bottles of tren, but if its a necessity then thats what i will do.

    Week 1- Preload week- multi vitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, coq10, and milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine

    Week2-beginning cycle-havoc 20mg, tren 1ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 5/cycle assist2, taurine
    Week3- havoc 30mg, tren 1ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week4- havoc 30mg, tren 1.25ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week5- havoc 30mg, tren 1.5ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week6- havoc 40mg, tren 1.5ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week7- havoc 40mg, tren 1.5ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week8- PCT start- nolva 20mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil,Hawthorne berry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycleassist, taurine
    Week9- nolva 20mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week10- nolva 20 mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week11- nolva 10mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week 12- nolva 10mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil,Hawthorne berry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycleassist, taurine
  31. New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by eric40817 View Post
    Trenavar/TVar = PH to trenbolone

    Trenazone = trendione similar, yet lesser results of the injectable tren but less sides. Ive heard nothing but good stuff about trenazone.

    tmk trenazone/trendione is only in topical form. could be wrong though and maybe something else is just slipping my mind. And by administering trenazone topically, you're not even hitting your organs...just something to take in to consideration.

    maybe you answered this before and I didnt see it. If you did I apologize, but are you looking to stay oral only? not pushing the pinning at all, just curious if you were possibly open to a test base perhaps.

    Trenazone is NOT trendione. It is dienolone.
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    Tren+epi=serious shin pump while running. Ok for the first mile but anything after that and you'll probably want to quit, especially if you already suffer from splints. If you're trying to keep your cardio up while on cycle, you aren't limited to running. There are other means of getting in good cardio sessions. For lower impact you could bike, for instance.
    I'm not speaking out of the side of my neck either, I've run "tren"/epi multiple times with the same effect and I'm a decent runner (I can sustain a 6-6:30 mile for quite a while). I'd look elsewhere if your shins are your main concern.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fx4life View Post
    Trenazone is NOT trendione. It is dienolone.

    Yes sir you are correct. It is dienolone - my mistake.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, but the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river.
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    How bad were they for you? i havent bought any of the tren or havoc yet so i can still change the cycle, do you know of anything better that would not prohibit me from running and doing cardio? I would greatly appreciate advice on this it still not 100% but that is the cycle i would run for tren if i went that route, but anything else you have in mind im open ears.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    So here is the cycle i have came up with, please critique. Pretty expensive, Not sure if its necessary that i need 2 bottles of havoc and 2 bottles of tren, but if its a necessity then thats what i will do.

    Week 1- Preload week- multi vitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, coq10, and milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine

    Week2-beginning cycle-havoc 20mg, tren 1ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 5/cycle assist2, taurine
    Week3- havoc 30mg, tren 1ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week4- havoc 30mg, tren 1.25ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week5- havoc 30mg, tren 1.5ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week6- havoc 40mg, tren 1.5ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week7- havoc 40mg, tren 1.5ml, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week8- PCT start- nolva 20mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil,Hawthorne berry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycleassist, taurine
    Week9- nolva 20mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week10- nolva 20 mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week11- nolva 10mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil, Hawthorneberry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycle assist, taurine
    Week 12- nolva 10mg, DAA 3, multivitamin, fish oil,Hawthorne berry 1000mg, red yeast/coQ10 2 caps, milk thistle/liv 52/cycleassist, taurine
    If you're running the cycle assist I would ditch the liv.52. Milk Thistle and cycle assist should be sufficient. You're only running one methyl and despite what some people say, 30 and 40mgs of epi is still fairly mild. Mild compared to the doses Ive seen (80mgs+).
    Your cycle assist has 300mgs of HB in it, so you'll actually be getting 1300mgs of HB daily, which is fine, but you also have celery seed in there so I would say do one cap of HB (500mgs). Youll be getting 800mgs of HB and the Celery Seed. Do this and if your bp is under control, youre golden. If it goes up still, then you can add in that second cap of HB. Just trying to maybe save you some caps for another cycle!

    Other than that I would say that looks pretty solid my dude. Only suggestion - skip the 1.25mL dose of tren and make it 1.5mL.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, but the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river.
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    I cant think of a ph that will improve cardio and help you hit those other goals. I believe theres a peptide that supposed to increase cardio endurance, but that would mean needles which arent an option.
    Never shall innocent blood be shed, but the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river.
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    eric40817, how do you think my shins and endurance will respond to this type of cycle?
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    Its not neccessarily that i need it to help improve my cardio or endurance, i just dont want it to be affected, i want to keep running and swimming as now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoreyL View Post
    How bad were they for you? i havent bought any of the tren or havoc yet so i can still change the cycle, do you know of anything better that would not prohibit me from running and doing cardio? I would greatly appreciate advice on this it still not 100% but that is the cycle i would run for tren if i went that route, but anything else you have in mind im open ears.
    They were bad enough to where I didn't want to run on it anymore. I turned my first mile in about 5:50 and the second in about 8. I don't have shin issues, at all. We all react differently though and the only thing I can say is you may not have an issue. I won't try to steer you away from epi. I loved it and it's a good compound, especially if you're looking for something "mild". Mild is receptor based too, which a lot of people fail to mention. I'd do epi again if I planned on continuing to run orals. I've run it three times and other than the issues FOR ME with running, it was great.
    It's ultimately up to you. You may have no issues at all.
    And if I'm not mistaken, carrying extra weight makes shin issues more prevalent. I'd try to cut my weight naturally before risking making my problems worse by adding exogenous hormones. Epi/tren is going to add weight to your frame. It could make things worse either way.
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    I've ran both Havoc and Trenazone individually. Didn't have a problem with shin splints on either cycle. But, everyone responds differently.
  

  
 

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