Hdrol/4ad- Beanstalk turned BEAST!!

[6andaHalf]

Oh yes, it is time for me to break the ice. Did two Growth kits back to back this summer (so-so results, don't really consider it much of a "cycle") and it really made me want to try hdrol. I wanted to add the 4-ad for mood and libido, maybe gain a little more size. I'm 6'6", so not a little guy but have always been genetically thin. I've put on 40lbs all natty over the last 3+ years lifting like a MADMAN.

Age: 29
Current weight: 211 lbs
BF 12%

I'm right at that cusp to start looking like I set out to 3 years ago and what better way to blast into beast-mode than this?

I run a 4 day split and use undulated periodization for the most part. While taking hdrol I'm going to put my cals 500-750 over maint and start running sprints or using LISS after lifting to minimize fat gains. My main outlook is eat HUGE and CRUSH VOLUME. I'm sure thats everyones mindset but I'm going to do this right and watch out for injuries. Psyched!!

Hella 50/75/75/75/75... 75? (may go 6 depending on how I feel)
4-ad 2/3/3/3/3/3 (May actually bump this up to 4ed, mid cycle)
Multi
Fish oil
Cycle Support
Taurine (if needed)

PCT
Nolva (may or may not use it depending, dont want any more sides than needed)
AD-3 (Basically Erase with L-dopa)
DAA
Divanil


So this is it, time to get results after years of being natty! Took my first dose yesterday

 

[Cordeen]

The 4 AD is AMS?

 

[6andaHalf]

Yes it is. Seemed to boost libido really well the first time I used it. We'll see how it works with a harsher cycle....

 

[6andaHalf]

I've always read people starting 1st cycles and having a great placebo effect the first couple days and I finally got to experience that yesterday when I hit the gym. Did back and bis and felt like I wanted to stay forever...

Now, to continue taking creatine or wait until PCT??? It obviously works in a different pathway, I kind of feel like I'd rather just stay on it throughout both...

Any advice on this or is it really as simple as save it til PCT to help save gains? Wouldn't you get even stronger on cycle WITH it?

 

[ponysteak]

Yes. Keep the creatine.

 

[hvactech]

Id keep it 75mgs all the way

 

[6andaHalf]

Yes. Keep the creatine.

Thanks, that makes more sense to me, too.

Id keep it 75mgs all the way

Yea, I feel completely fine from the first few days @ 50 so... 75mg it is from here on out. I bought Hella so I have 180 tabs

 

[hvactech]

Thanks, that makes more sense to me, too.

Yea, I feel completely fine from the first few days @ 50 so... 75mg it is from here on out. I bought Hella so I have 180 tabs

The reason why most drop creatine during cycle is to lessen the stress on the liver. Plus with strength increased on cycle you'll never notice the difference

 

[6andaHalf]

The reason why most drop creatine during cycle is to lessen the stress on the liver. Plus with strength increased on cycle you'll never notice the difference

Yea, I've read that reason as well.

I can compromise... I'll keep it in there for two weeks until the hdrol starts to kick and then drop for 4 weeks it until PCT. I definitely notice a loss when I stop the creatine, so until I start benefiting from the cycle I'd like it in there.

 

[6andaHalf]

Today marks day 4. As early as it may be I have put on 2 lbs. Water? Is this usual with hdrol? 4ad didn't do that the first time I ran it...

Recently Ive only been able to bench 225 about 3x before a spot but yesterday. Today I hit 5 slow and controlled and then squeezed out 2 more with very little help. Felt really good, a little too good. Placebo? It should be but I can't help to think that I may be feeling the 4ad bc my acne is starting to act up.

It's only been about 3 months since my last 4ad dose, could it have built up quicker? Was def a few weeks to kick in the first time...

 

[ponysteak]

Both times (running it again now) I put on a few lbs in the first few days. So yeah it's likely typical.

 

[sonny4753]

Dude I would run 4 4AD in the AM and 4 4AD in the afternoon. I did two cycles using 4AD as my test base, more IS better.

Be sure to use an an AI, I have a ton of Formestane and ran 100 mgs, started about a week in at a dosing eod. I had NO side effects except for a sore wife and 15lbs of gains in 6 weeks on my pplex run and 13lbs on my 8week 1T Tren run.

Good luck, and GET BLOOD WORK!! BEFORE AND AFTER PCT NEVER GUESS.

 

[6andaHalf]

I'm sure it is way better but thats a whole bottle of 4ad a week and that's more than I wanna spend. At that dose I can see why an AI would be needed but Im only taking it to keep libido and mood. Maybe Ill just go to 4 ed...

 

[sonny4753]

Haha yeah, but if you want something close to real test do that much. Perhaps I have too much disposable income, check out my latest post about what I've come into recently

 

[6andaHalf]

Out of curiosity, does it build up and kick in sooner at that high dose? Id assume so but wonder how much

 

[sonny4753]

Not sure, didn't have the wherewithal to get blood panels drawn while on cycle. My qualified take, is when I got up to 8 a day I felt pretty fkn amazing without sides.

So as much as test will ramp up over time irrespective of the dose (ie to get an oven to 400 degrees it still has to warm up), not bad to have a high level of exo test with your anabolic compound. I just think any of these orals are going to shut you down. With an exogenous test base at a solid high level your can't go wrong.

Think about, it's really just hyper Dhea. So more is better to keep things going while running your oral. As long as you have a solid AI.

Just pay attention to your body, and always getting blood works. Don't fk with anything that has yohimbine in it. That sht is toxic to the pulmonary system, and drastically so when on cycle due to LDL rise.

I haven't some post on here about my pplex run, with 4AD. Now until the end while at 8 a day did it really get going.

 

[6andaHalf]

I'm really just trying to get the feel of the hdrol for the first time before I go ramping up the test to levels where an AI is def needed. Just so I can appreciate the difference and the extra money spent. If I did decide to go up to 4-6 ED, should I take a 1/2 dose of erase ED just to be safe? I got up to taking 4 ED the last week of my last run and was fine but...

Also, you said 4 am and 4 pm, I've always heard to take them spread out throughout the day. Does the halflife last long enough where it wouldn't really matter much? I don't really notice much of a direct effect after taking them but I'm not dosing too high.

 

[6andaHalf]

Anyone: At what level of 4ad dosing would an AI be necessary?

 

[6andaHalf]

Alright then.... moving on.



Day 8

Weight: 214.5 lbs +3.5

No sides to report except acne, I'm a little prone but I can tell I have more going on right now. I think it is from the 4ad but I could be wrong. I almost feel it kicked in WAY faster than last time. Maybe because I just finished my first run of 1ad/4ad about 3 months ago, not sure. Could this still have been built in my system a little or maybe I just know what to look for now??

Libido is above average and earlier this week at dinner, I had this calm warmth over me, almost as if I was on a painkiller or something. Sorta euphoric... maybe coincidence...

Everything else seems pretty much normal except for the 3.5 lbs I've put on. I will say I when hit chest on Friday and was able to hit 225x5 (+2 with a light spot) where I normally havent gotten more than 3 in the last year. Can't be the Hella yet...

Excited to get into week 2 and stay on the throttle. Keeping my eye on the prize

 

[6andaHalf]

So my sleep on Day 8 was absolutely crap. I had one last 3mg melatonin left and just as I was getting to sleep someone texted me and I snapped out of my drift into slumber to find myself missing my golden window and was up for most the night. I'm taking 1.5x 3g melatonin from here on out.

I got more melatonin and went home yesterday and took a 2 hr nap and smashed dinner before getting an additional 8 hrs. Today marks day 10 and I'm ready to hit Back/Bis and do some intervals. Muscles feel full and hard these last few days. I guess I'm still a week or so away from seeing real gains...

 

[6andaHalf]

Nothing much to post about these first two weeks but now I'm getting into it a bit.

DAY 16

Weight: 216.5 +5.5lbs

I know it doesn't seem like much, but I seem to be losing fat at the same time. Veins coming out in my arms/chest in new places and I'm starting to get excited about the upcoming weeks. From here on out I will start upping the volume and seeing if I can put up some PRs.

Still running sprints or LISS after workouts which I usual don't do. Cals are nice and high even though I'm still eating pretty clean. May dirty up the diet a bit and see if I can't grow even more.

This is my first Hdrol cycle so PLEASE: Live vicariously through me and tell me what you would have told yourself during your first run. I'd appreciate any comments or tips.

 

[6andaHalf]

As of yesterday, I can officially say Hella has kicked in.... and it feels AWESOME!

2 weeks ago my PR bb bench was 225x3... Yesterday I threw up 6 reps like nobodies business and then squeaked out 2 more with a little help. The ways things look now, I may just set a goal of benching my body weight 10x and @ 6'6" I used to feel like this was years away.

I feel like I have an even deeper motivation sweeping over me, I'm looking forward to posting up the before and afters already. Starting to have people notice my size that I've seen within a months time and not even half way done.

 

[sonny4753]

So my sleep on Day 8 was absolutely crap. I had one last 3mg melatonin left and just as I was getting to sleep someone texted me and I snapped out of my drift into slumber to find myself missing my golden window and was up for most the night. I'm taking 1.5x 3g melatonin from here on out.

I got more melatonin and went home yesterday and took a 2 hr nap and smashed dinner before getting an additional 8 hrs. Today marks day 10 and I'm ready to hit Back/Bis and do some intervals. Muscles feel full and hard these last few days. I guess I'm still a week or so away from seeing real gains...

Yo man if you have any issues with sleeping, I HIGHLY recommend running 10mgs - 15mgs of Melatonin (btw you can take Melatonin with pre workout as it helps with GH secretion but that's a whole other post); and 1/2 - 1 scoop Somatomax. You WILL sleep great!

Keep hitting those weights hard, DEFINITELY throw in some rest pause sets dude, and I'd do a few GVT days too.

 

[beastmode1987]

As of yesterday, I can officially say Hella has kicked in.... and it feels AWESOME!

2 weeks ago my PR bb bench was 225x3... Yesterday I threw up 6 reps like nobodies business and then squeaked out 2 more with a little help. The ways things look now, I may just set a goal of benching my body weight 10x and @ 6'6" I used to feel like this was years away.

I feel like I have an even deeper motivation sweeping over me, I'm looking forward to posting up the before and afters already. Starting to have people notice my size that I've seen within a months time and not even half way done.

cant wait to hdrol kicks in for me ! im on day 5 as of today and this is my first ph cycle . i deff had that placebo effect the first 2 days i was on it just cause ive never done anything like this . was throwing around the 125 dumbbells on flat bench like nothing . day 3 was good day 4 i didnt feel anything >< maybe cause i did legs .crazy squats >< .

 

[DJBeanPole]

I hear ya on the being tall and genetically thin :\ lol... good luck with the rest of ur cycle. I'd say BWx10 benchpress is a great goal (was one of mine)

 

[6andaHalf]

cant wait to hdrol kicks in for me ! im on day 5 as of today and this is my first ph cycle . i deff had that placebo effect the first 2 days i was on it just cause ive never done anything like this . was throwing around the 125 dumbbells on flat bench like nothing . day 3 was good day 4 i didnt feel anything >< maybe cause i did legs .crazy squats >< .

Yea man it def takes a few weeks. Seems like its still creeping up on me on day 19. Best is stll to come. Rest day today and then I'm feeling really good about hitting legs tomorrow. May throw in some brutal 20 rep squats

 

[Kingmjb]

are you going to run a SERM cause I think if you plan to have kids one day id def be running Torem.

 

[hvactech]

are you going to run a SERM cause I think if you plan to have kids one day id def be running Torem.

why torem

 

[6andaHalf]

So everyone who doesn't use a SERM for hdrol cant have kids now?

 

[02sixxer]

So everyone who doesn't use a SERM for hdrol cant have kids now?

No that is not the case, however you should run a serm. It also helps you keep the gains and not waste them. OTC boosters and AI product will not help as much as a SERM with a quality DAA product or Raw. Post is more important then the cycle you run.

 

[Kingmjb]

So everyone who doesn't use a SERM for hdrol cant have kids now?

You get my drift, dont have to get all angry. The reason I wouldnt run a OTC is because 1. You'll end up needing the SERM when your balls dont drop, and 2. You'll spend more money on the companies OTC than the actual cost of a good SERM. Someone asked why TOREM? I've run it before and think it took me around 3 days to feel my libido skyrocket, you run it big for 2 weeks and taper it down, plus a lot of people run an AI during week 3 which I did with Erase @ 3/3/2/2/1/1. The DAA is also the key, you can start this last week of your cycle and run it for 4 weeks.

If you do go down the OTC path with Hdrol, you should bounce back, but you may look worst off than you did prior.

Cheers.

 

[6andaHalf]

You get my drift, dont have to get all angry. The reason I wouldnt run a OTC is because 1. You'll end up needing the SERM when your balls dont drop, and 2. You'll spend more money on the companies OTC than the actual cost of a good SERM. Someone asked why TOREM? I've run it before and think it took me around 3 days to feel my libido skyrocket, you run it big for 2 weeks and taper it down, plus a lot of people run an AI during week 3 which I did with Erase @ 3/3/2/2/1/1. The DAA is also the key, you can start this last week of your cycle and run it for 4 weeks.

If you do go down the OTC path with Hdrol, you should bounce back, but you may look worst off than you did prior.

Cheers.

No anger. Been researching this cycle for 2 years and not having kids is a little exaggerated and unnecessary to drop.

I do appreciate your response and am leaning towards using the nolva I have. Is Torem really that much better for libido?

 

[Kingmjb]

mate sorry its just a saying about the kids lol. heaps of OTC pcts are prob safe enough, but I think whenever you start to put things into your body that mimic test and shut you down, even low doses of mild compounds can shut you down, a SERM is just a common sense approach. Nolva is tried and tested but Torem seems to be the new Nolva without the sides and let me tell you, it helps bring the boys back in less time. Just taper it down over 4 weeks, can add in Erase too which I usually do starting week 3. Run DAA with it for the entire cycle, or you could run OTC pct and just have a SERM on hand, if you feel you arent bouncing back, add the SERM.

 

[6andaHalf]

Yea, I didnt mean to come off dramatic. Thanks for the advice Ill certainly research some Torem more, possibly make the switch if it means more libido.

 

[6andaHalf]

Day 20

Weight: 218 +7lbs

So, yesterday marked day # 20 and I hit legs pretty hard. I was feeling really strong and everything felt a little lighter than it should have. I was determined to put in some great volume so I went with a GVTish 10x8 approach at the squat racks. But, I was mistaken to think I'd be able to! I got in 4 set of 10 @ 225lbs when I experienced my first ever back pumps. Man O man you guys weren't kidding haha. Its actually not that different from when I have an arthritic flare up. I basically had to call it quits on squats for the day and did 4 more heavy sets of 10 rep leg presses and then hit leg exts, ham curls and calves. All and all I got in more volume than normal and felt really strong. I'll be sure to hit 5-6g of taurine next time, I will always have some WITH ME for now on.

I don't have much lethargy going on yet. I have noticed a small decline in libido, still didn't stop me from a great weekend with the gf. I have noticed I'm a little more irritable lately but nothing crazy. If anything I've just not been taking anyone's crap in the past few days.

I have a rest day today and then hit it hard Wed, Thurs and Fri. Looking to take care of some PRs this week..... like, all of them.

 

[6andaHalf]

Day 23

Weight: 219 +8lbs

Hit back and bis yesterday and that will mark the last time I use agmatine during this cycle haha. I could barley even flex my bicep on the way out without feeling like it was going to pop! Washing my hair in the shower was actually even a little uncomfortable post workout.

My workout was pretty beast though. Started out doing 15 chins like it was nothing which is great for me at this weight. I felt I could have hit 20 if I wasnt going to do 5 sets. Ended up going:

Chins (BW)
15/10/8/7 w/1 min rest (last few sets with long eccentrics)

Wide lat pulls
160x10
160x8
145x10
145x8

Bent rows
130x15
130x10
110x10
100x10

At this point I looked in the mirror and was a bit stunned. I'm getting a really vascular look and generally just look.... swollen.

Iso work consisted of 3 giant sets of:

Reverse straight bar curls
70x7
Hammer DB curls
25sx7
Straight bar curls
70x7
(^^no rest in between)

Guillotine curls to finish up

120x10
110x10> Drop to 80 and burn out


All my shirts are fitting a lot tighter (sucks a bit becasue I'm already an XL and now they are starting to look too tight. I asked for it I gues) I've had like 3 people this week comment on my size. I'm really happy with how things are going right now other than the back pumps. I can deal though and actually I used to get them a lot riding BMX growing up. At 6'6", thrashing a 20" around works the hell out of your back. Probably why I've always been a strong puller and not pusher. Turns out, I'm no stranger to back pumps after all.

Does everyone dose Taurine in the am to last all day or just as needed (like right before the gym) ?

 

[6andaHalf]

DAY 27

Weight: 222 +11lbs

My weight has been consistently rising during my 4th week and every day in the gym is a new found strength. I continue to have friends who take notice to the gains. If I gained at anymore of a faster rate it would be hard to hide but I don't really care at this point. If I can hit 225lbs I will be really stoked, especially because I swear it looks like my abs have come out even MORE while gaining over 10 pounds in 3.5 weeks. It really HAS to be mostly muscle. I attribute this to intensity and short rest time in the gym. My gf can really see a difference in me, thats for sure.

My libido has been kicking strong from the 4ad and I feel like week 4 has evened out whereas before I had a slight libido issue from the hella in week 2-3 and maybe the 4ad hadn't kicked all the way yet. My aggression is pretty normal and I just feel motivated to lift and get bigger overall. I really am not getting too lethargic either.

Sleep is hit or miss but melatonin seems to really help. I feel rested during the day and really have no sides at all except acne and I have been getting that lower back pump on occasion. Seems like 5-6g taurine is very helpful but I still have my doubts that Id be able to hit a decent volume squat day and honestly do not want to even venture in the deadlift realm. I used to get back pumps as it is without the hella. These are strong lifts for me as it is so I'm not too worried.

I may try to bump it up to 100mg for the last 2 weeks. Anyone think that would make my sleep that much worse or make back pumps much worse? i guess I can always take it back down if it doesn't work.

I have a before and after pic that I'll be putting up at the end of the cycle but overall... I dont think I'll be updating this if I'm just doing it to do it. No one seems to have any questions or comments and I'm doing a lot better than I thought I would with minimal guidance so I'm really not sweating it. Most hdrol logs go for 2 weeks and disappear, thats why I thought I would follow through but...

 

[Bodock]

keep at it man, nice gains coming and I like the detail in your posts!

 

[6andaHalf]

keep at it man, nice gains coming and I like the detail in your posts!

Thanks for dropping in man. Just trying to hit all the questions I had as a newb researching this stuff.

 

[6andaHalf]

DAY 28

Weight 220.5 +9.5

Weight finally isnt climbing for once. I have no doubt I'm still making gains though. Probably just water flux. I gotta say, I'm in a great mood today and just feel confident as sh*t. The 4ad must really be helping.

I bumped it up to 100 mg today. If all goes well I will keep it here for my last 2 weeks. I also have enough to bump my 4-ad to 5 ED now for the last 2 week. Things could get fun in here!! This would obviously mean I plan on using the SERM at this point. I had planned that anyway.

What a beast ass leg day I had yesterday. Took 6g taurine and it helped enough this time that I could actually finish my squat sets. I did still get back pumps but i was able to just deal with it and take a short rest here and there. Honestly, the worst part was getting all the 45s back down on the bottom holder. Bending over with them was not fun after squats and I may have looked pretty funny. I didn't care, I felt like a monster.

I did a variation of rest pauses in which I basically did 8 sets of 5-8 reps with around 30 sec rest. Although I have never gone over 280 for a small set, I managed to put up 300 for my last few sets with surprising ease. Looking forward in the mirror and seeing the bar flexing as I elevated was a big motivator. I could easily hit my 315 squat goal... probably for reps now.

Finished up with hams, quads and calves. I really pushed hard on the calves in a rest pause manner too.

Got band practice today so no gym but I'm back at it tomorrow with my increased dosage. Looking forward to leveling my small little gym once again.

 

[6andaHalf]

DAY 30

Weight: 222.5 +11.5

I slept like a damn log last night and didn't want to get up this morning at all. I assume lethargy is going to start showing up more and more as I play out these last 2 weeks with the increased dosage

I decided that I would do a little less cardio post workout this week to see if my weight would bump up more and it seemed to do just that. I did have a brutal leg day on Monday and that always seems to set the stage for a slight increase in weight over the week.

After increasing my dosage of both hella (100mg) and 4-ad (5 ed) I have noticed a flare up in acne yet again. I dont really care as I plan to zap the little fu<kers in a tanning bed when I finish PCT. Homo? I don't care, clearer skin is happening before summer and nothing helps me more than a skin drying tan.

Back and Bis were pretty on point yesterday and I am doing a lot of rest pauses. I was curling 90 lbs on a straight bar like it was easy, almost like I could have just kept reppin it. Makes sense to use the high weight routines while I can lift as much as I can right now. I also set a PR for bent rows with 150x10 (not that I was really trying to set a PR, I was just adding weight and mashing reps. I did like 6 sets dropping the weight about 20 lbs each time, too.

Today, I plan on benching in a power rack so I can do rest pauses starting in the concentric as oppose to a normal bench.

 

[Bodock]

Awesome man! Has this reduced your body fat any while on cycle?

 

[6andaHalf]

I noticed my abs have been sticking out more and I do seem more vascular. Now, that being said, I don't necessarily think I have "lost" much fat while gaining this weight so far but, I do think my bf % could have dropped a small bit with the added muscle.

 

[6andaHalf]

DAY 34

Weight 222 +11 lbs

Weight seems to be sitting the same but my mirror tells me things are anything but "the same". Veins are coming out to play and I'm really just getting an aggressive look to my physique. I can't count how many friends have been pointing out my increased size this past week. Most say I look great... other friends try to embarrass me in public. Story of my life.

I'm settled in nicely on 100 mg. Sides stayed about the same except a little more lethargy this weekend. I did a quick tabata workout to get the blood flowing before I cheated up some superbowl food and I was feeling lazy as sh*t. i still got through it because I know it counts for extra right about now. Libido is feeling pretty normal (thanks 4-ad) and my aggression is about normal too.

Acne got pretty bad last week but seems better today. Does anyone get much worse acne when they switch into PCT with nolva??

 

[6andaHalf]

Haha I've had like 5 people joke about me using steroids this week. Obviously doing something right.




So, no one has acne on Nolva?

Hmm, I used to get irritated when people never finished their logs but now I totally understand why it happens.

 

[6andaHalf]

Had a well above average run in here but I'm done with this thread. Its a common run and didn't really need much guidance, honestly. Thanks to the few who jumped in, you all have been repped.

Weight: 225 +14 lbs

Joints don't feel great and just don't feel like myself. Starting PCT after the weekend.

 

[Bodock]

Good run man! Hope the PCT treats you well

 

[6andaHalf]

Well, I've been off Hella for about a week now but continued the 4ad up until yesterday to finish off the bottle.

I started DAA and Divanil same day I stopped the Hella. Started AD-3 last night (basically erase with 800mg Ldopa)

Long story shot... I'm going OTC PCT because I feel fine after being off Hella for a week. I'm actually feeling much better than I did last week and even stronger with the creatine back in me.

Flame away if you must.

 

[NateWA]

Great log. What's the final verdict?

 

[6andaHalf]

I really enjoyed the run, man. I've dropped about 6 of the pounds after 2 weeks being off 4-ad and 3 weeks off Hella but look way better because of it. I def ate a crap load on cycle and gained a bit of fat along with the muscle. I'm not "trying" to cut now but I have started running more sprints so my abs are coming back out strong.

Strength is just below what it was on cycle but def better than it was before cycle. AD-3 is treating me good and I'm starting to get the Divanil pumps from the Division. I forgot how much I liked Divanil.

Gaining and keeping 14 lbs was not happening and honestly I'm surprised I gained 14 at first. I knew I was losing some of that water. Hell, most of that was probably water. I went into this cycle thinking it would forever change my appearance but its really not like that AT ALL. I made improvements but nothing crazy. If I keep 5-7 of the new pounds and look even leaner at the end of pct I will be THRILLED. I feel like PCT will actually yield some more gains which I didnt expect.

Libido is still needing a bit of improvement but I get by with the lady for now Another few days and I'll be right above average from the herbal stuff.