Hdrol/4ad- Beanstalk turned BEAST!!

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    So everyone who doesn't use a SERM for hdrol cant have kids now?
    You get my drift, dont have to get all angry. The reason I wouldnt run a OTC is because 1. You'll end up needing the SERM when your balls dont drop, and 2. You'll spend more money on the companies OTC than the actual cost of a good SERM. Someone asked why TOREM? I've run it before and think it took me around 3 days to feel my libido skyrocket, you run it big for 2 weeks and taper it down, plus a lot of people run an AI during week 3 which I did with Erase @ 3/3/2/2/1/1. The DAA is also the key, you can start this last week of your cycle and run it for 4 weeks.

    If you do go down the OTC path with Hdrol, you should bounce back, but you may look worst off than you did prior.

    Cheers.


  2. Quote Originally Posted by Kingmjb View Post

    You get my drift, dont have to get all angry. The reason I wouldnt run a OTC is because 1. You'll end up needing the SERM when your balls dont drop, and 2. You'll spend more money on the companies OTC than the actual cost of a good SERM. Someone asked why TOREM? I've run it before and think it took me around 3 days to feel my libido skyrocket, you run it big for 2 weeks and taper it down, plus a lot of people run an AI during week 3 which I did with Erase @ 3/3/2/2/1/1. The DAA is also the key, you can start this last week of your cycle and run it for 4 weeks.

    If you do go down the OTC path with Hdrol, you should bounce back, but you may look worst off than you did prior.

    Cheers.
    No anger. Been researching this cycle for 2 years and not having kids is a little exaggerated and unnecessary to drop.

    I do appreciate your response and am leaning towards using the nolva I have. Is Torem really that much better for libido?
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  3. mate sorry its just a saying about the kids lol. heaps of OTC pcts are prob safe enough, but I think whenever you start to put things into your body that mimic test and shut you down, even low doses of mild compounds can shut you down, a SERM is just a common sense approach. Nolva is tried and tested but Torem seems to be the new Nolva without the sides and let me tell you, it helps bring the boys back in less time. Just taper it down over 4 weeks, can add in Erase too which I usually do starting week 3. Run DAA with it for the entire cycle, or you could run OTC pct and just have a SERM on hand, if you feel you arent bouncing back, add the SERM.

    :-)

  4. Yea, I didnt mean to come off dramatic. Thanks for the advice Ill certainly research some Torem more, possibly make the switch if it means more libido.

  5. Day 20

    Weight: 218 +7lbs

    So, yesterday marked day # 20 and I hit legs pretty hard. I was feeling really strong and everything felt a little lighter than it should have. I was determined to put in some great volume so I went with a GVTish 10x8 approach at the squat racks. But, I was mistaken to think I'd be able to! I got in 4 set of 10 @ 225lbs when I experienced my first ever back pumps. Man O man you guys weren't kidding haha. Its actually not that different from when I have an arthritic flare up. I basically had to call it quits on squats for the day and did 4 more heavy sets of 10 rep leg presses and then hit leg exts, ham curls and calves. All and all I got in more volume than normal and felt really strong. I'll be sure to hit 5-6g of taurine next time, I will always have some WITH ME for now on.

    I don't have much lethargy going on yet. I have noticed a small decline in libido, still didn't stop me from a great weekend with the gf. I have noticed I'm a little more irritable lately but nothing crazy. If anything I've just not been taking anyone's crap in the past few days.

    I have a rest day today and then hit it hard Wed, Thurs and Fri. Looking to take care of some PRs this week..... like, all of them.
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  6. Day 23

    Weight: 219 +8lbs

    Hit back and bis yesterday and that will mark the last time I use agmatine during this cycle haha. I could barley even flex my bicep on the way out without feeling like it was going to pop! Washing my hair in the shower was actually even a little uncomfortable post workout.

    My workout was pretty beast though. Started out doing 15 chins like it was nothing which is great for me at this weight. I felt I could have hit 20 if I wasnt going to do 5 sets. Ended up going:

    Chins (BW)
    15/10/8/7 w/1 min rest (last few sets with long eccentrics)

    Wide lat pulls
    160x10
    160x8
    145x10
    145x8

    Bent rows
    130x15
    130x10
    110x10
    100x10

    At this point I looked in the mirror and was a bit stunned. I'm getting a really vascular look and generally just look.... swollen.

    Iso work consisted of 3 giant sets of:

    Reverse straight bar curls
    70x7
    Hammer DB curls
    25sx7
    Straight bar curls
    70x7
    (^^no rest in between)

    Guillotine curls to finish up

    120x10
    110x10> Drop to 80 and burn out


    All my shirts are fitting a lot tighter (sucks a bit becasue I'm already an XL and now they are starting to look too tight. I asked for it I gues) I've had like 3 people this week comment on my size. I'm really happy with how things are going right now other than the back pumps. I can deal though and actually I used to get them a lot riding BMX growing up. At 6'6", thrashing a 20" around works the hell out of your back. Probably why I've always been a strong puller and not pusher. Turns out, I'm no stranger to back pumps after all.

    Does everyone dose Taurine in the am to last all day or just as needed (like right before the gym) ?

  7. DAY 27

    Weight: 222 +11lbs

    My weight has been consistently rising during my 4th week and every day in the gym is a new found strength. I continue to have friends who take notice to the gains. If I gained at anymore of a faster rate it would be hard to hide but I don't really care at this point. If I can hit 225lbs I will be really stoked, especially because I swear it looks like my abs have come out even MORE while gaining over 10 pounds in 3.5 weeks. It really HAS to be mostly muscle. I attribute this to intensity and short rest time in the gym. My gf can really see a difference in me, thats for sure.

    My libido has been kicking strong from the 4ad and I feel like week 4 has evened out whereas before I had a slight libido issue from the hella in week 2-3 and maybe the 4ad hadn't kicked all the way yet. My aggression is pretty normal and I just feel motivated to lift and get bigger overall. I really am not getting too lethargic either.

    Sleep is hit or miss but melatonin seems to really help. I feel rested during the day and really have no sides at all except acne and I have been getting that lower back pump on occasion. Seems like 5-6g taurine is very helpful but I still have my doubts that Id be able to hit a decent volume squat day and honestly do not want to even venture in the deadlift realm. I used to get back pumps as it is without the hella. These are strong lifts for me as it is so I'm not too worried.

    I may try to bump it up to 100mg for the last 2 weeks. Anyone think that would make my sleep that much worse or make back pumps much worse? i guess I can always take it back down if it doesn't work.

    I have a before and after pic that I'll be putting up at the end of the cycle but overall... I dont think I'll be updating this if I'm just doing it to do it. No one seems to have any questions or comments and I'm doing a lot better than I thought I would with minimal guidance so I'm really not sweating it. Most hdrol logs go for 2 weeks and disappear, thats why I thought I would follow through but...

  8. keep at it man, nice gains coming and I like the detail in your posts!
    Psalm 73:26
    My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

  9. Quote Originally Posted by Bodock View Post
    keep at it man, nice gains coming and I like the detail in your posts!
    Thanks for dropping in man. Just trying to hit all the questions I had as a newb researching this stuff.

  10. DAY 28

    Weight 220.5 +9.5

    Weight finally isnt climbing for once. I have no doubt I'm still making gains though. Probably just water flux. I gotta say, I'm in a great mood today and just feel confident as sh*t. The 4ad must really be helping.

    I bumped it up to 100 mg today. If all goes well I will keep it here for my last 2 weeks. I also have enough to bump my 4-ad to 5 ED now for the last 2 week. Things could get fun in here!! This would obviously mean I plan on using the SERM at this point. I had planned that anyway.

    What a beast ass leg day I had yesterday. Took 6g taurine and it helped enough this time that I could actually finish my squat sets. I did still get back pumps but i was able to just deal with it and take a short rest here and there. Honestly, the worst part was getting all the 45s back down on the bottom holder. Bending over with them was not fun after squats and I may have looked pretty funny. I didn't care, I felt like a monster.

    I did a variation of rest pauses in which I basically did 8 sets of 5-8 reps with around 30 sec rest. Although I have never gone over 280 for a small set, I managed to put up 300 for my last few sets with surprising ease. Looking forward in the mirror and seeing the bar flexing as I elevated was a big motivator. I could easily hit my 315 squat goal... probably for reps now.

    Finished up with hams, quads and calves. I really pushed hard on the calves in a rest pause manner too.

    Got band practice today so no gym but I'm back at it tomorrow with my increased dosage. Looking forward to leveling my small little gym once again.

  11. DAY 30

    Weight: 222.5 +11.5

    I slept like a damn log last night and didn't want to get up this morning at all. I assume lethargy is going to start showing up more and more as I play out these last 2 weeks with the increased dosage

    I decided that I would do a little less cardio post workout this week to see if my weight would bump up more and it seemed to do just that. I did have a brutal leg day on Monday and that always seems to set the stage for a slight increase in weight over the week.

    After increasing my dosage of both hella (100mg) and 4-ad (5 ed) I have noticed a flare up in acne yet again. I dont really care as I plan to zap the little fu<kers in a tanning bed when I finish PCT. Homo? I don't care, clearer skin is happening before summer and nothing helps me more than a skin drying tan.

    Back and Bis were pretty on point yesterday and I am doing a lot of rest pauses. I was curling 90 lbs on a straight bar like it was easy, almost like I could have just kept reppin it. Makes sense to use the high weight routines while I can lift as much as I can right now. I also set a PR for bent rows with 150x10 (not that I was really trying to set a PR, I was just adding weight and mashing reps. I did like 6 sets dropping the weight about 20 lbs each time, too.

    Today, I plan on benching in a power rack so I can do rest pauses starting in the concentric as oppose to a normal bench.

  12. Awesome man! Has this reduced your body fat any while on cycle?
    Psalm 73:26
    My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

  13. I noticed my abs have been sticking out more and I do seem more vascular. Now, that being said, I don't necessarily think I have "lost" much fat while gaining this weight so far but, I do think my bf % could have dropped a small bit with the added muscle.

  14. DAY 34

    Weight 222 +11 lbs

    Weight seems to be sitting the same but my mirror tells me things are anything but "the same". Veins are coming out to play and I'm really just getting an aggressive look to my physique. I can't count how many friends have been pointing out my increased size this past week. Most say I look great... other friends try to embarrass me in public. Story of my life.

    I'm settled in nicely on 100 mg. Sides stayed about the same except a little more lethargy this weekend. I did a quick tabata workout to get the blood flowing before I cheated up some superbowl food and I was feeling lazy as sh*t. i still got through it because I know it counts for extra right about now. Libido is feeling pretty normal (thanks 4-ad) and my aggression is about normal too.

    Acne got pretty bad last week but seems better today. Does anyone get much worse acne when they switch into PCT with nolva??

  15. Haha I've had like 5 people joke about me using steroids this week. Obviously doing something right.




    So, no one has acne on Nolva?

    Hmm, I used to get irritated when people never finished their logs but now I totally understand why it happens.

  16. Had a well above average run in here but I'm done with this thread. Its a common run and didn't really need much guidance, honestly. Thanks to the few who jumped in, you all have been repped.

    Weight: 225 +14 lbs

    Joints don't feel great and just don't feel like myself. Starting PCT after the weekend.

  17. Good run man! Hope the PCT treats you well
    Psalm 73:26
    My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

  18. Well, I've been off Hella for about a week now but continued the 4ad up until yesterday to finish off the bottle.

    I started DAA and Divanil same day I stopped the Hella. Started AD-3 last night (basically erase with 800mg Ldopa)

    Long story shot... I'm going OTC PCT because I feel fine after being off Hella for a week. I'm actually feeling much better than I did last week and even stronger with the creatine back in me.

    Flame away if you must.

  19. Great log. What's the final verdict?

  20. I really enjoyed the run, man. I've dropped about 6 of the pounds after 2 weeks being off 4-ad and 3 weeks off Hella but look way better because of it. I def ate a crap load on cycle and gained a bit of fat along with the muscle. I'm not "trying" to cut now but I have started running more sprints so my abs are coming back out strong.

    Strength is just below what it was on cycle but def better than it was before cycle. AD-3 is treating me good and I'm starting to get the Divanil pumps from the Division. I forgot how much I liked Divanil.

    Gaining and keeping 14 lbs was not happening and honestly I'm surprised I gained 14 at first. I knew I was losing some of that water. Hell, most of that was probably water. I went into this cycle thinking it would forever change my appearance but its really not like that AT ALL. I made improvements but nothing crazy. If I keep 5-7 of the new pounds and look even leaner at the end of pct I will be THRILLED. I feel like PCT will actually yield some more gains which I didnt expect.

    Libido is still needing a bit of improvement but I get by with the lady for now Another few days and I'll be right above average from the herbal stuff.

  21. nice man!

    I'm at the end of week three on my Hdrol/trenazone/stano cycle. I have added quite a bit of strength but only up 10 lbs.

    Hope the rest of PCT treats you well!
    Psalm 73:26
    My flesh and my heart may fail, but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.

  22. Go get a blood panel done. Dont use qualitative judgement about your levels. You should avoid stressing your system to much in PCT.

    At the very least go get a lipid panel, and total, free test. I guarantee your test has nose dived. Start taking 10-12 grams of EFAs split into AM and before bed with your DAA. Because when off the hdrol and 4ad your cort is going up, estrogen as well, and that spells doom for newly created muscle tissue.

    Also, bound test will increase as your natural levels go back up. But since you didnt do a SERM it will take much longer for endogenous test to get back on par. So you will have to wait even longer before your free test can be adequately unbound from SHBG or alb.

    The true key of knowing a successful PCT is 6mos away. But if you are already shedding that much weight it probably is too late.

    Blood work is the only way to know.

    Sorry not flaming, just trying to help.

    My philosphy for pct is EAT EAT EAT, fk cardio for now. Muscle is way harder to hold on to then fat (unless someone has high bf to start with, they shouldnt touch steroids). Never go into a cycle to shred, thats easy with diet and cardio. Yeah you will lean out a bit on cycle but the whole point is to add new muscle.

    Good luck!

  23. Thanks man, great info here. My weight has started to go back up again. I feel I could keep on gaining if I wanted to but I'm almost through 4 weeks of PCT so I'm definitely going to start cutting after this week.

    If I could go back I would use a SERM. I guess I was a little scared of the drop in libido and other emo issues that go along but I had Nolva the whole time...

    It was getting to the point where I really wanted to get these chems out of my system and get back to normal life. I had been telling my gf about my "supp" run and how it was only 6 weeks but then I realized the true loss of libido hadnt even started yet. Terrible logic on my part but I truly figured DAA, Dinavil and Erase would bring my libido back faster (which it may have, but at what cost?). I'm guessing I lost a fraction of my gains but honestly still feel pretty good about my run.

    Next run will be worlds better now that I have personal experience in SERM vs. OTC. I ran a decently potent dose and should have just used the Nolva. I'll chalk it up as a decent cycle and know better next time. Still about up 7-8 lbs and only eating to maintain @ high protein. Def stronger and look better so... isn't that why we do this?

  24. Yeah, just getting free and total test will be about 100 bucks.

    Part of a pct is sucking it up and running the SERM. There are legit research companies.

    See where you are in 6mos. :-)

    Keep lifting as hard as you possibly can. Good luck

  25. Quote Originally Posted by sonny4753 View Post
    Yeah, just getting free and total test will be about 100 bucks.

    Part of a pct is sucking it up and running the SERM. There are legit research companies.

    See where you are in 6mos. :-)

    Keep lifting as hard as you possibly can. Good luck
    Thanks, I had a seriously energized workout yesterday and felt nearly as strong as on cycle. I really do feel great right now and starting to look even better every day. Weight is not coming off at all now, just the water at first.

  26. To be honest, this whole "eat a lot and dont do cardio" thing is spelling disaster. I'm staying somewhat the same weight and noticing big fat increases. Probably my low test as of now although I haven't lost strenght, libido or energy. Its 3 weeks later, I'm wondering if a week or two of Novla at this point would still help

    Im going back to gearing my workouts to be intense as shiit for EPOC. Just lifting heavy with intense sets with a minute or more rest is sucking ass for me. I should have never changed my plan and kept running sprints. Now I think I really fu<cked things up back to basically normal. I was continuing to look great even after 2-3 weeks of PCT. Now, not so much but I still feel great, I just feel like a POS with doing "no cardio".

  27. The increases in fat is probably due to low test and high estro and high cort levels. Try grabbing an anti-e and cort blocker, it couldn't hurt. And lesson learned I supposed, the same thing happened to me my first two cycles

  28. Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post
    The increases in fat is probably due to low test and high estro and high cort levels. Try grabbing an anti-e and cort blocker, it couldn't hurt. And lesson learned I supposed, the same thing happened to me my first two cycles
    Ive been on AD-3 (erase) the whole pct if thats what you mean...

    Anyway, I also have Divanil and DAA Im taking for what its worth and nolva on hand. What about taking nolva for short stint?

    It's really not like I lost all my gains and strength. But I have noticed some fat increase and definitely some loss in muscle but still better than I started. I'm sure I would have been better off with Nolva from the start but... next time. I can see how you would get away with OTC though with a lower dose than I took.

  29. Quote Originally Posted by 6andaHalf View Post
    Ive been on AD-3 (erase) the whole pct... or are you talking real deal AI?

    Anyway, I have Divanil and DAA Im taking for what its worth and nolva on hand. What about trying nolva for a week or two?

    It's really not like I lost all my gains and strength. But I have noticed some fat increase and definitely some loss in muscle but still better than I started. I'm sure I would have been better off with Nolva from the start but... next time. I can see how you would get away with OTC though with a lower dose than I took.
    Never mind I thought you had finished pct a few weeks ago, I was thinking that if you finished your cycle 6 or 7 weeks ago and still not feeling back to where you were pre-cycle your estrogen or cortisol still might be high.

  30. Quote Originally Posted by SPS View Post

    Never mind I thought you had finished pct a few weeks ago, I was thinking that if you finished your cycle 6 or 7 weeks ago and still not feeling back to where you were pre-cycle your estrogen or cortisol still might be high.
    Im about 3 weeks into pct. So you think I should just finish the daa, divanil and erase or start Nolva for a week or two too?

    Would it help this late? Amateur hour... I know. Any help is appreciated
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