consequences of ph's

pjsallday

New member
Well I have been reading this board off and on for a while. I am yet to find a comprehensive article or anything explaining the true negative side effects not just the immediate like hairloss, acne, etc. I just thinnk that it is necessary to have negative side effects (long and short term) as easy to find if not easier than the positive side effects. I read all the time people on this board telling kids under 21 not to do ph's/aas. I think they should be told specifically why and to some detail. So basically I am asking someone with some degree of knowledge to write and sticky(or just link to one) an article that explains the risks for the young as well as the old. I hope no one sees this as negative criticism, It is just my two cents. thanks guys
 
Not exactly sure what you are asking.

You said NOT the immediate effects.

Are you asking what the long term effects are?
 
There's no need to have anything like that now..they're about to be banned and there's not enough kids who roam this particular board anyway..all anyone has to do is search and read and you can find out what you want to kow in under 5 minutes
 
It usually takes years and years of abuse of androgens to start doing damage..But long term, liver damage, high cholesterol, prostate problems ...lotsa the bodybuilder pros that have talked about damage probably have been using roids at least 8-10 years...lotsa them start in their early teens cause of obsession with becoming the best...when they reach their 30s they already have over a decade of steroid use, thats where the damage starts to come.....I never seen someone get a problem from doing an occaisional cycle here and there



Remember hundreds of thousands of people die of smoking ....how many die DIRECTLY from steroid use? not many...and if they do there usually abusing stuff like HGH and diuretics with it too(andreas munzer)

We all die in the end anyway...I think smoking is much more dangerous than a steroid cycle
 
I agree with all of you. I was just saying that when I try to take the perspective of someone that wants to do ph's and comes on this board. All they see is how big they can become but they don't see the other side thats all. My point was clear( at least in my head) that I thought there should be somewhere on this board that tells the negative. thats all.
 
I know what your saying. I think the reason your not seeing much on the long term dangers is probably because its not that dangerous. If it was I'm sure you would see many more pro bodybuilders dropping dead. Of coarse moderation and takeing the necessary precautions is always a good idea.
 
pjsallday said:
Well I have been reading this board off and on for a while. I am yet to find a comprehensive article or anything explaining the true negative side effects not just the immediate like hairloss, acne, etc. I just thinnk that it is necessary to have negative side effects (long and short term) as easy to find if not easier than the positive side effects. I read all the time people on this board telling kids under 21 not to do ph's/aas. I think they should be told specifically why and to some detail. So basically I am asking someone with some degree of knowledge to write and sticky(or just link to one) an article that explains the risks for the young as well as the old. I hope no one sees this as negative criticism, It is just my two cents. thanks guys
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Why don't you write one yourself and post it here if you are so concerned about the foolish kiddies?

Greenguy
 
Jstrong20 said:
I know what your saying. I think the reason your not seeing much on the long term dangers is probably because its not that dangerous. If it was I'm sure you would see many more pro bodybuilders dropping dead. Of coarse moderation and takeing the necessary precautions is always a good idea.
Click to expand...
you dont see long-term dangers of PH because they havent been around that long. what....9 years now? and the stuff at the beginning was not like it is now. liver failure takes years (ask your uncle alcoholic)

if you were to use, say, 1-test as a base for a few dozen cycles over the next 10 years, you could reasonably equate that with mild AAS use, and the consequences to your liver and endocrine system would be similar i'd imagine. the thing is - i dont know anyone with enough PH to last that long. most will 1) finish what they have 2) quit eating as well, followed by 3) quit lifting as seriously or altogether (this will occur over the next 10 years as priorities change)....some will switch to real gear and take that path (to competition, perhaps), but not most....

just a commentary. if you're one of the few who take roids for 10 years (hopefully for competing purposes and not just recreationally) you'll want to keep close tabs on your internals. for the rest of us - enjoy it all while it's legal (and for a while afterwards), take your NAC & ALA & silymarin, do PCT and dont worry too much. call me reckless, but i agree with renton: occasional, reasonable cycles over a couple years should not do any permanent damage.
 
I think most knowledgable people on this board generally know the effects and proactively deal with them when they cycle. Heres a quick list off the top of my head:

Liver damage (mainly from Methyls)- Nac, Milk Thistle

High Blood Pressure (depending on a predisposition)- Hawthorne Berry

Acne (androgenic PHs, depends on predisposition)- Shower and clean self:whip:

Prostate Damage (androgenic PHs, depends on predisposition)- Saw Palmetto

Low HDL/ High LDL Cholesterol- Eat plenty of good fats

Hairloss/MPB (androgenic PHs, depends on predisposition)- Propecia, other hair care products, avoiding certain products if you have propensity

The biggest health risk by far is when persons under 21 do PHs, which is they can cause permanent hormonal damage and prematurely end growth.

As far as long term health effects, I think when possible the best way to determine those is to look at the steroidal counterpart and analyze any long term studies on their effects. Obviously one can't do this for 1-Test and the like, but looking at 4AD (test), 19Nor (deca), 1,4AD (EQ), M1,4 (Dbol), M5 (DHT) and any other steroidal precursor, you can use those to get a general idea as to the long term effects.
 
THEBRAKES said:
you dont see long-term dangers of PH because they havent been around that long. what....9 years now? and the stuff at the beginning was not like it is now. liver failure takes years (ask your uncle alcoholic)

if you were to use, say, 1-test as a base for a few dozen cycles over the next 10 years, you could reasonably equate that with mild AAS use, and the consequences to your liver and endocrine system would be similar i'd imagine.
.
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Well the only reason you would have any liver problems is if your using to many methylated prohormones. Same rule applyies for steroids. Also you could use 1-test for 100 cycles if you wanted and not have to worry about your liver because its not an alkalayted steroid. Plus 1-test is a steroid anyway and not a prohormone. Steroids have been around for decades and I don't see people droping like flies from them. Plus 1-test is far from a mild steroid and is much stronger than many of the illegal steroids(I know because I've used most of them and can compare). The only reason it seems week is because people are always pissing around with transdermals instead of injecting it.
 
Jstrong20 said:
Well the only reason you would have any liver problems is if your using to many methylated prohormones. Same rule applyies for steroids. Also you could use 1-test for 100 cycles if you wanted and not have to worry about your liver because its not an alkalayted steroid. Plus 1-test is a steroid anyway and not a prohormone. Steroids have been around for decades and I don't see people droping like flies from them. Plus 1-test is far from a mild steroid and is much stronger than many of the illegal steroids(I know because I've used most of them and can compare). The only reason it seems week is because people are always pissing around with transdermals instead of injecting it.
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i mentioned 1-test as a base just for that reason - it's not liver toxic. if your base was, say, M1T or (god forbid) dbol - you'll have more concerns. but most sensible people obviously use test as the base, for PH and AAS, and it stands as relatively safe as well as strong.

BUT the liver concerns become apparent when you introduce the methylated (PH and AAS) substances - and MANY do. PLUS your PCT substances are generally liver toxic, as are many of your cutting compounds.

regarding pinning 1-test: i'd be curious to see an honest poll of retained weight/strength gains of those who pinned versus those who applied transdermally. the stuff's so active on the skin, you gotta wonder if there is really that much added value. mental masturbation for me cuz like i said i dont rub PH on my skin.
 
I've used trasdermal 1-test and I've used 1-test cyp from designer supps and the injectable defiantley made me stronger. It did take awhile for the gains to really start because of the cyp ester though. I do see your concerns about so many using methyls. I'll admit its hard not to becuase so many came out in such a short time plus the ban closing in I think everybody wants to try them all.lol I know I'm slightly guilty but have restrained myself to only trying m-1t, m5aa, and m-dht. I would of tried superdrol but I missed the boat on that one.
 
In short, I guess you can say if you don't cycle properly the short term side effects could become permanent (to some degree, different with side effects, i.e. Test shutdown). Those are the long term side effects for the most part. They just become long term through, mostly, reckless cycling...

Plz, correct me if I'm wrong ...
 
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