WHERE TO START?!?

[BeRoyal]

Hey guys, so im completely new to both this website and the whole ph scene and would love some professional experianced insight to some of the many questions I have. Now before I start many of these questions might have been already answered here on the forum but as I said before im new so please bare with me . I am a current fitness model and will be competing nationally in physique in a couple months. Now im not just doing this as a hobby but have many connections working with me getting me into the fitness industry and I hope to one day even grab a pro card. Now I used to always be the small kid until I started taking up lifting, doing research, and now certified personal trainer, beginning at the age of 17 120lbs to now 20 165lbs 10% bodyfat. Now im tired of people not doing there research whether its for ph to even proper nutrition, just eager to jump into thing improperly. Me not being one of those people am looking for some of your experienced input of where to start. Being both new to and not a big fan of ph personally I was curious as to what the best safest ph would be to start with to help me put on only about 8-15 more pounds lean muscle. A friend of mine suggested as a start looking into Epistan but im not one for "broscience" so if I should look at other products do let me know. Now of course I know a lot of your might ask what my current nutritional regime and lifting looks like so I thought I would go ahead and list that out for you. Nutritionally I eat about 6 meals non workout days (2970 cal. 260g carbs 260g protein 99g fat) and 8 on workout days (3300 cal. 289g carbs 289g protein 110g fat) Current supplementation includes a 100% whey protien, casien, BCAA, CLA, Creatine Monohydrate, Fish Oils, and Arachnodic Acid) Current lifting experience under my belt is about 4 years, and current regime would be about 5 days a week heavy lifting. Hopefully as you can see I like to not only have everything in tune but know what the hell im doing/taking/ talking about LOL. But with PH I know NOTHING. Where should I start? Again thank you!

NOTE: Attached Is a current picture of my progress thus far.

 

[msrider]

You came to the rite place Bro, lots of guys here with incredible knowledge. I'm not one with a lot of knowledge of ph's. But your on the rite track with epistane and Havoc aren't real bad on your liver. I would check out the ph cycle section and find someone cycling ph's. But I'm sure somebody will chime in and give you good advice better than me. Good luck and looks as if you know what your doing physicaly by your photo.

 

[Lukef2000]

Well man I'm by no means knowledgeable about PHs but I have run a couple cycles so I'll help best I can. Epi is a good starter ph. Run it at doses around 30mg - 50mg daily spread out during the day. I ran it at 40 and had nice results on a calorie deficit. To be on the safe side get some liver protection. Nutraplanet has a sale in aegis shield if the gods. It has TUDCA in it so it's awesome for support. Furthermore you should grab some hawthorn berry for any potential bp issues. Last but not least you need a serm for pct. Nolvadex clomid torem all work. Get dome bulk DAA powder and a decent natty t booster. Run pct for 4 weeks. Good luck bro and enjoy. Oh btw welcome to AM. Lots of knowledgeable guys in this board that are usually more than willing to help

 

[schroedes]

Personally i would go with pmag, run it at 75 mg for 6 weeks, get Aegis for your liver, red yeast rice and coq10 for blood pressure, and torem, Daa , and erase for pct.all that for less than 150 bucks. Some people have had problems with epi.

 

[BeRoyal]

Hey guys again thank you for the input! So should o go with epi or halodrol or however you say it Lol (still learning) what and when should I take a pct? How should I cycle it? Thanks guys

 

[hvactech]

If that is in fact your pic then why use ph's?

 

[schwellington]

If that is in fact your pic then why use ph's?

Lol that's not him

 

[BeRoyal]

That is in fact me and I would be more than happy to post more pictures as well as lead you to my personal fitness page. If you read my entire post you would see diet and everything is far beyond in check. I do my reasearch and personally in my opinion knowledge is power. Hence why im asking for the input of you guys on futher improving my game rather then heading into it blindly.

 

[hvactech]

That is in fact me and I would be more than happy to post more pictures as well as lead you to my personal fitness page. If you read my entire post you would see diet and everything is far beyond in check. I do my reasearch and personally in my opinion knowledge is power. Hence why im asking for the input of you guys on futher improving my game rather then heading into it blindly.

Right but again, if that is you then you obviously are doing something right.

 

[BeRoyal]

Right but again, if that is you then you obviously are doing something right.

Lol ive studied the science behind this for a long time because in a sense yiur body is a science! Lol to be honest inwardly im a nerd at heart spending every waking second learning how I can improve my body. Ph arnt a perscription for of your doing everything wrong to get you in shape but exactly quite the opposite. Lol as a matter of fact I know a lot of people on ph without proper everything else therefore resulting in a less impressive physique. I told myself I would first dial everything in tune with diet, lifting, reasearch for years before I decide to do a cycle of ph and now am at the point looking for the expert advice of you guys so I too can go about it with the proper knowledge.

 

[hvactech]

Well at 20 yrs old i wouldnt cycle and again, if that is you, at your age then obviously the natural way is working so why manipulate your hormones

 

[BeRoyal]

Well at 20 yrs old i wouldnt cycle and again, if that is you, at your age then obviously the natural way is working so why manipulate your hormones

I most likely wouldnt be cycling again. Only onr light ph to put on a couple more pounds before competition. And really appreciate the imput

 

[Rodja]

I most likely wouldnt be cycling again. Only onr light ph to put on a couple more pounds before competition. And really appreciate the imput

Trust me, you will not stop at one if you plan on competing regularly. Although the doses are smaller, the drug prevalence in physique is no different than BB'ing.

 

[BeRoyal]

Trust me, you will not stop at one if you plan on competing regularly. Although the doses are smaller, the drug prevalence in physique is no different than BB'ing.

Hey Rodja, hmm I see. Can you better explain that last statement of the drug prevelence being the same as BB'ing?

 

[Rodja]

Hey Rodja, hmm I see. Can you better explain that last statement of the drug prevelence being the same as BB'ing?

Most, if not all, of the competitors will be on something. Whether it be clen, GH, AAS, etc., the field is using.

 

[BeRoyal]

Most, if not all, of the competitors will be on something. Whether it be clen, GH, AAS, etc., the field is using.

So ive noticed. Dont get me wrong I would say I have a pretty competitive physique now. But some that I met are obviously on something. The whole point is of not only this website or this thread is to get some insightful information on how to start rather than send me elsewhere to figure it out on my own you know? As I understand its exactly the ph that are extremely harmful but the misuse due to a lack of knowledge

 

[BeRoyal]

Most, if not all, of the competitors will be on something. Whether it be clen, GH, AAS, etc., the field is using.

So ive noticed. Dont get me wrong I would say I have a pretty competitive physique now. But some that I met are obviously on something. The whole point is of not only this website or this thread is to get some insightful information on how to start rather than send me elsewhere to figure it out on my own you know? As I understand its not exactly the ph that are extremely harmful but the misuse due to a lack of knowledge

 

[Rodja]

So ive noticed. Dont get me wrong I would say I have a pretty competitive physique now. But some that I met are obviously on something. The whole point is of not only this website or this thread is to get some insightful information on how to start rather than send me elsewhere to figure it out on my own you know? As I understand its not exactly the ph that are extremely harmful but the misuse due to a lack of knowledge

Orals by nature are going to be more stressful compared to something like a simple testosterone cycle.

 

[BeRoyal]

Orals by nature are going to be more stressful compared to something like a simple testosterone cycle.

And why is that? So you wouldnt suggest a lighter ph such as epistan?

 

[Rodja]

And why is that? So you wouldnt suggest a lighter ph such as epistan?

Most injectables do not have significant hepatotoxicity, but orals will to varying degrees depending on the compound.

 

[Lukef2000]

Wait a second did I somehow miss that your only 20?? Man your natural test levels will be quite high at the moment why jot take advantage of that while you can? And then turn to ph/ds or injects in a few years!

 

[BeRoyal]

Wait a second did I somehow miss that your only 20?? Man your natural test levels will be quite high at the moment why jot take advantage of that while you can? And then turn to ph/ds or injects in a few years!

Hey Luke, I know I know, and as I said before the only reason I have contemplated it is not only for competition but immediately after with some of the conections I have, will be having some photoshoots and opportunities for sponsership with a couple supp and magazine companies. I personally am making phenomenal progress on my own as you can see from my picture but ive seen much better in my competitor who are obviously on something.

 

[msrider]

My bad!

 

[BeRoyal]

So just got the epistan and should be starting the cycle sometime next week. Now when it comes to PCT what should I be looking at with this PH. The guy at the store said due to its mild nature a simple natural test booster will do. Also would any of you suggest taking this along my current sup. Stack?

 

[Lukef2000]

Hey Luke, I know I know, and as I said before the only reason I have contemplated it is not only for competition but immediately after with some of the conections I have, will be having some photoshoots and opportunities for sponsership with a couple supp and magazine companies. I personally am making phenomenal progress on my own as you can see from my picture but ive seen much better in my competitor who are obviously on something.

So just got the epistan and should be starting the cycle sometime next week. Now when it comes to PCT what should I be looking at with this PH. The guy at the store said due to its mild nature a simple natural test booster will do. Also would any of you suggest taking this along my current sup. Stack?

Yeah unfortunately the natty physique takes a lot linger to build to that level so I know why we all cheat lol. With any ph you will need a seem. Clomid Nolva or torem. You should go back to the guy who told u that a natty t booster will suffice and punch him lol. Serm and DAA should be all you need.

 

[BeRoyal]

Yeah unfortunately the natty physique takes a lot linger to build to that level so I know why we all cheat lol. With any ph you will need a seem. Clomid Nolva or torem. You should go back to the guy who told u that a natty t booster will suffice and punch him lol. Serm and DAA should be all you need.

Thanks. Yeah Im not one to just settle for "broscience" but yeah it is a very competative field. But thanks for your input! Sadly I am a complete NOOB to ph so dont really have a strong knowledge of what your suggesting. If you dont mind could you describe what you suggest and why? THANKS AGAIN!

 

[Lukef2000]

Thanks. Yeah Im not one to just settle for "broscience" but yeah it is a very competative field. But thanks for your input! Sadly I am a complete NOOB to ph so dont really have a strong knowledge of what your suggesting. If you dont mind could you describe what you suggest and why? THANKS AGAIN!

Its all good man! Keep it simple. Nolva 40/20/20/20 mg per day/week and DAA 3g daily. Could throw in dpol or t blast as well if you wanted.

 

[BeRoyal]

Yeah unfortunately the natty physique takes a lot linger to build to that level so I know why we all cheat lol. With any ph you will need a seem. Clomid Nolva or torem. You should go back to the guy who told u that a natty t booster will suffice and punch him lol. Serm and DAA should be all you need.

What is a serm?

 

[iparatroop]

Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator.

 

[msrider]

Like luke said, def need a serm and tblast is an awesome natty test booster

 

[Lukef2000]

What is a serm?

A serm is what you should base your pct around. Never pct without one.

 

[00S4Boy]

What is a serm?

Since no one really explained it to you. SERM's are not gray area compounds like PH's they are prescription medication, used to control estrogen in your body.

When you start using prohormone compound's what happens is they replace the testosterone in your body, when your body see's an abundance of testosterone not being used productively it will slow down or stop natural testosterone production which is fine for on cycle because most of the things testosterone would have done is now being done by the compound you are running.

Your body to operate normally also needs a balance of testosterone to estrogen, males unlike female's do not produce estrogen rather they convert testosterone into estrogen through an enzyme called aromatase. So while there is all this extra testosterone floating around your body it is susceptible to aromatase in which it will be converted to estrogen. This doesn't usually present a problem as your testosterone replacement PH will compete with the estrogen for what parts of your body it will bind to and effect.

But once you stop supplementing with PH and your body's natural testosterone production is very limited there is nothing to compete with the estrogen in your body, as well as when test production is restarted the abundance of aromatase will want to rapidly convert that test into estrogen. It will start to interact with things that testosterone would normally react with and cause adverse effects, most notoriously gyno (growth of female breast tissue in a male). What a SERM is as said is a Selective Estrogen Reception Modulator, it competes with estrogen and can help in rebooting testosterone production.

A lot of people who do personal biochemistry for their own personal hormonal research on rodent specimen's will get SERM's from research chemical companies but they are not intended for human comsumption, and since this is a bodybuilding forum and these such compounds can also be used illegally by humans we are not allowed to discuss locations for purchasing these SERM's.

Because of frequent discussion of SERM's and how people use them to combat estrogen after performing hormonal cycles on them. The ad company anabolic mind's sells space to on their forum to help generate revenue to keep the site free to use will some time's show these research companies because they have paid these ad companies to be shown when keywords relating to the products they sell for research are found commonly on message boards. But these companies are not sponsors of anabolic minds, they are not endorsed by anabolic minds, and because of the nature of their compounds and how they are used in correlation to hormone replacement they are not to be discussed on this site, they only show up due to keyword based target advertisement.

When using SERMs for post cycle therapy, dosage is usually started high and tapered to a low dose by the end of the post cycle therapy. To try and help return you to homeostasis instead of a sudden drop.

That covered most of the basics behind it, before you start taking that epi I would highly suggest reading through more information. This can be a confusing game and one wrong move could create a devastating effect.

Feel free to shoot away and we will help you as much as possible.

 

[Killler]

That pic is gay,pull your pants back up.

 

[BeRoyal]

That pic is gay,pull your pants back up.

LMAO you mad bro?! Thanks for taking the time out of your day just to compliment on a 20year olds pictures of the better gains hes made than you through nutrition and training alone.. as you continue to bitch on others threads rather give legitimate thought out insightful advice ill be training bettering myself. By the way thanks so far from everyine for the input so far!

 

[Killler]

LMAO you mad bro?! Thanks for taking the time out of your day just to compliment on a 20year olds pictures of the better gains hes made than you through nutrition and training alone.. as you continue to bitch on others threads rather give legitimate thought out insightful advice ill be training bettering myself. By the way thanks so far from everyine for the input so far!

Nice job!

Have you been gayning a lot lately?

 

[BeRoyal]

Nice job!

Have you been gayning a lot lately?

Haha not quite sure if that was supposed to be clever or even what that means but hey I guess every thread needs its troll. But march on keyboard warrior! Slaying those "gaying" on the forum! Your popularity ceases to amaze me. Please tell me more of how your rep power translates into the real world!

 

[00S4Boy]

Haha not quite sure if that was supposed to be clever or even what that means but hey I guess every thread needs its troll. But march on keyboard warrior! Slaying those "gaying" on the forum! Your popularity ceases to amaze me. Please tell me more of how your rep power translates into the real world!

Royal he might be giving you a hard time but killler is a straight up dude. He's eastern European speaks better English then a fair amount of Americans on here and knows what he is talking about.

 

[BeRoyal]

Royal he might be giving you a hard time but killler is a straight up dude. He's eastern European speaks better English then a fair amount of Americans on here and knows what he is talking about.

I get that. And thats great. But with anything in life to get repect you treat others with respect. Especially when it comes to the touch subject of correct prohormone use. I myself would rather give a kid the proper knowledge on how to safely us a prohormon then falsly insult him and have him potentially search the answers himself from the wrong sources and ruin his life. The purpose of bodybuilding is to not only better ourselves but others throught knowledge motivation and inspiration. People like us is what makes us different than the skinny **** curling in the squat rack taking only "muscle milk"

 

[BeRoyal]

And excuse my spelling im on my phone