19-Nor = zombie?

[ToadStool]

I am three weeks into an eight week cycle of 19-Nor Diol and 4AD. This is my first 19-Nor Diol cycle. My doses are oraly 19-Nor 300mg X 2, 4AD 600mg 45 min before workout or 300mg at lunch on off days. I am 5’11� 196lbs. When I get up in the morning I feel like a zombie. I have never been so tired in my life. It doesn’t seem to matter if I get a good 8 hours sleep, I still drag a$$. Should I adjust the doses, or is this just a natural side? Any tips on a good way to kick myself in the butt with out adding caffeine or other junk?

Thanks.

 

[sweet-physique]

I am three weeks into an eight week cycle of 19-Nor Diol and 4AD. This is my first 19-Nor Diol cycle. My doses are oraly 19-Nor 300mg X 2, 4AD 600mg 45 min before workout or 300mg at lunch on off days. I am 5’11� 196lbs. When I get up in the morning I feel like a zombie. I have never been so tired in my life. It doesn’t seem to matter if I get a good 8 hours sleep, I still drag a$$. Should I adjust the doses, or is this just a natural side? Any tips on a good way to kick myself in the butt with out adding caffeine or other junk?

Thanks.

Sounds like you are taking both these via the oral route. Both these compounds are better suited for Transdermal delivery. oral 4ad has about a 5% conversion and 19 nor is about 15%.

 

[sweet-physique]

Oh yea at those doses orally I wouldn't expect excessive side effects or gains for that matter. You can either up the dose for both by a factor of 2 or 3 split throughout the day (same for all days even on rest days on cycle),or you can keep the dosage you have but put it in a transdermal. For the boost your looking for you could add a DHT precurser like M5aa or such prework out. Just somethings to consider.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

If your taking them orally you are not taking enough to do anything.

 

[wastedwhiteboy2]

I heard the conversion rate of 4ad is closer to 15% but either way its low. your doses are pretty low. I dont think the ph are making you tired. they give me energy. also just wanted to make sure you have 6oxo or nolva or something similar for pct. your could raise the dose to 900 easily.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I heard the conversion rate of 4ad is closer to 15% but either way its low.

It might be but I believe oral bioavailability of it is piss poor. If I am remembering correctly it's about 5 to 10 % range........ meaning your wasting about 90 to 95 % of it. If you go with transdermal it could be bumped up to 20 to 30%. You also need to take decent amount of it . With 4 ad I need about 800 mg to 1000 mg a day.

 

[Brodus]

"With 4 ad I need about 800 mg to 1000 mg a day."

Vanilla, do you get that much transdermally per day? Thats a lot of gel.

 

[ToadStool]

I got the dosage from a sticky article written by Big Cat. He stated that 500mg 19-Nor and 500mg 4AD would be a good beginner stack. Today I started 900mg 19-Nor and 900mg 4AD, orally. I would have chosen the transdermal route because the cost is much less but I am currently stationed in Iraq and would have sweated it off in half an hour so I choose to go the oral route. Plus, I feel this is a better way to achieve precise doses so I can see exactly what works for me.

 

[IdahoSpud]

I'm no expert, but this has been my experience with PHs. Yes I get tired whenever I'm on, regardless of which one I'm using.

I suspect this is because of increased tissue growth. It takes energy, it takes food, and it makes you tired. That's why kids, and especially teens need a lot of food and sleep.

I'm guessing this is what happens when you take AAS or PH. You are bringing your hormone levels up to where they were when you were 16 (probably higher yet) and your body is responding by growing.

Some folks might disagree here, but that's been my experience. Then again, I haven't been a teenager/twenty-something for *quite* a while, so maybe I notice the tiredness more

 

[Indigo6]

4AD and 19- nor?

Don't they compete for the same enzyme?

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Vanilla, do you get that much transdermally per day? Thats a lot of gel.

I used mainly sprays rather than gels in the past. I did try omega 4 ad gel this last time and I liked it allot.

 

[Brodus]

Do you always run 4AD and 19nor? Sounds like you have a lot of experience there.

I was always planning on running this combo, but people dissed it when the methyls came out...now we've come full circle.

 

[farmer]

Brodus. I ran the 4ad-19nor combo in a trans a couple of times. It's been a while but I think it was a 50/50 mix in a gel and I got a decent boost to help break a plateau that I had been fighting for a couple of months. Maybe one reason it worked is that it was my first attempt at hormones ever. I had never done any kind of PH or gear at all at that point. I haven't tried it since, but I'm wondering if I could still see some effectiveness after all the other stuff I've taken.

Might be a nice little experiment to run this winter when it's cold outside and there's nothing to do.

 

[ToadStool]

Sounds like you are taking both these via the oral route. Both these compounds are better suited for Transdermal delivery. oral 4ad has about a 5% conversion and 19 nor is about 15%.

I am marking this one down as an expencive "learning experience." I wish I would have waited and opted for a transdermal cycle because I just found a deal where I could get enough powder for 8 cycles for the price I paid for one with caps. Wow..... that almost hurts.