Hair Loss Prevention - AnabolicMinds.com

Hair Loss Prevention

Page 1 of 56 1236 ... Last
  1. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    Hair Loss Prevention


    Hair Loss Prevention

    About 50% of the human male population are genetically susceptible to Alopecia Androgenetica, also known as Male Pattern Baldness. Although the exact causes of male baldness are still unknown, most knowledgeable in this area would agree that strong androgenic substances like DHT and testosterone play a large part. If you are prone to MPB and are concerned about keeping your hair, then read on. There are some products that when used alone or especially in combination, can be very effective in halting or even reversing male hair loss.

    First, let's take a look at what is known about the causes of MPB. Testosterone is converted to DHT by the 5AR enzyme, which in turn finds its way to your hair follicles and causes them to fall out. The are a few theories on how this occurs. One suggests that DHT causes a progressive miniturization of the affected hair follicles. Another says that DHT causes an autoimmune response, causing the body to actually attack the hair follicles as if they were a foreign body. This in turn causes an inflammatory response that causes the hair follicles to shed.

    Either way, its a frustrating problem. A problem that can become greatly accelerated by the use of androgenic drugs, especially those with a high conversion rate to DHT. Testosterone, Anadrol, D-Bol...all of these end up increasing the amounts of DHT in your system. Some, like test, convert through the 5AR enzyme. Anadrol, on the other hand, is not converted to DHT through the 5AR method at all. 1-testosterone can also convert 'back' to DHT though the infamous 'unknown pathway'...in any event higher levels of DHT end up at the scalp when you're using these substances. And, if you're prone, this could spell rapid accelleration of genetic hair loss.

    Any androgenic hormone molecule binding to the receptors in your scalp could advance hair-loss in someone prone to MPB. When using steroids, especially those with strong receptor binding characteristics like 1-test or Trenbalone, the actual steroid itself could be a contributing factor to your hair loss, in addition to any elevated levels of DHT in your system.

    So now we know that we need to prevent high amounts of androgen molecules from affecting hair follicles at the scalp. This could be done by using oral medication, like:

    Finasteride
    Dose: 1-2mg /day
    Mean terminal half-life is approximately 5-6 hours in men 18-60 years of age and 8 hours in men more than 70 years of age.

    There are two types of 5 alpha-reductase (AR), type I and type II, that act as a catalyst in converting testosterone into DHT. Propecia is a 5AR inhibitor, but only effectively inhibits Type II. It has no known effect on type I. Finasteride works by inhibiting the Type II 5alpha-reductase enzyme that is responsible for converting testosterone to DHT. It is not clear as to whether only Type II 5AR is responsible for damage to hair follicles or if Type I is also to blame. It is estimated that Propecia inhibits 70% serum DHT and 38% scalp DHT at the standard, recommended dosage of 1 mg per day. For people suffering from natural hair loss or hair loss brought on by testosterone supplementation, oral 5AR inhibitors could work very well. 1

    Initially I was apprehensive about using finasteride to combat hairloss. However, not being satisfied with the rate of regrowth from topical-only solutions, I decided to start implementing oral Finasteride at ~1 mg/day. Since Ive started using it (along with LLLT therapy, see below), my hair really started to thicken - even on the areas of my scalp that seemed to respond more slowly to the topicals. I have no negative side effects at all.

    Read more about Finasteride pharmacology here:
    http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/propecia_cp.htm

    Dutasteride
    Dose: .5mg /day
    invivo half life is approximately 5 WEEKS.

    Dutasteride ('Duta', 'Duagen'), also known as Avodart, is another oral 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor. It is known to be more potent than Finasteride in that it inhibits both type-I and type-II 5AR enzymes in the body. Dutasteride also has a much longer half-life than Finasteride so any side effects that occur from use will be sustained for a much longer period of time.

    Some interesting facts about Dutasteride:

    The medication causes a significant drop in both scalp and blood levels of DHT. Its effectiveness is felt to be related to both of these factors. In patients taking finasteride 1-mg/day, serum DHT levels decreased by 68.4% and serum testosterone levels actually increased by 9.1% but remained within the normal range. In patients taking dutasteride 0.5 mg/day serum DHT levels decreased by 85% in one week and 90% by two weeks. After one year of taking dutasteride 0.5mg/day serum DHT levels decreased by 94% and and testosterone levels increased by 19%, but the testosterone levels remained within physiologic limits. Thyroid Stimulating Hormone (TSH) levels increased 12.4% at 52 weeks and luteinizing hormone (LH) increased by 12% at 6 months and 19% at 12 months. We do not know what the long term consequences will be of the increase in testosterone, TSH, or LH.
    2

    However, a strong word of caution for those considering Dutasteride:

    The half life of dutasteride is 5 weeks at steady state. The average steady state concentration is 40ng/ml following 0.5 mg/day for one year. Following daily dosing, dutasteride serum concentrations achieve 65% of steady-state concentration after 1 month and approximately 90% after 3 months. Due to the long half-life dutasteride serum concentrations remain detectable (greater than 0.1ng/ml) for up to 4 to 6 months after discontinuation of treatment.

    Due to the long half-life side affects may last much longer. Therefore, we recommend you take Propecia for 6 months to one year prior to starting dutasteride. If you tolerate Propecia well, you may consider switching to dutasteride at the end of your Propecia trial period. While higher dosages up to 2.5 mg of dutasteride have been shown to increase hair counts even greater than 0.5mg, this higher dosage has not been submitted to the FDA for their approval and no phase III human clinical trial at this dosage exist.
    2

    Another important thing to keep in mind is that Dutasteride is metabolized by the CYP3A4 enzyme in the liver. So are SERMs. I have no idea whether or not using them both in conjunction could cause undue stress on the liver,as there is plenty of CYP3A4 (its the CYP enzyme that's presnt in the largest amount in the body) but its something to keep in mind until a clear answer can be found.

    In my own opinion, people should be weary of using Dutasteride to treat hair loss. Especially if you've never used an oral 5AR inhibitor before. Glaxo, the company that developed it, halted research on Dutasteride for a hair loss treatment for 'unknown reasons'. It probably isnt health related, because its still used as a BPH treatment. However, know that when you use Dutasteride to treat MPB, you are doing so at your own risk. It uncommonly long half life and lack of human trials would make me think twice about it, for sure.

    More info on Dutasteride pharmacology:
    http://www.forhair.com/dutasterideConsentForm.htm

    A good page that compares Dutasteride vs. Finasteride with the pros and cons of each:
    http://www.anagen.net/glaxo7.htm

    Note: oral 5AR blockers should never be used with Deca-Durabolin. It can actually promote hair loss in this situation. Deca reduces via 5AR to a less androgenic molecule called DHN (dihydronandrolone). If you inhibit 5AR while on a cycle of DecaDuraBolin, the compound could actually negatively impact your existing hair loss issues

    This brings us to the next weapon in the hair loss prevention arsenal:

    The Topicals

    Anti-Androgens

    There are a few chemicals out there which have been shown to inhibit androgen and DHT molecules at the scalp itself, without showing any systemic side effects. These are:

    Spironolactone

    Spironolactone was originally used as a "Potassium Sparing Diuretic", that has been used for many years to treat high blood pressure and fluid retention. Recently, it has also been used orally as an anti-androgen (it blocks the androgen receptor itself).
    For hair loss prevention purposes, it has been found that a solution of Spiro in a 2-5% concentration can effectively block androgens (both DHT and others) from effecting the hair follicles at the scalp when applied topically. You can read more detailed info about some other uses of Spironolactone here:

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/cataldactone.htm

    Keep in mind that although Spironolactone is generally thought to be non-systemic when applied to the scalp, a few users have reported low-androgen related symptoms when using topical Spiro. IMO, it should only be used on cycle ,when a general androgen blocker is needed.

    Azelaic Acid
    Used as an acne medication, azelaic acid also has one important property when applied to the scalp:
    It inhibits DHT up to 100% at the area of application Taking all of the above information into consideration, its obvious why we would want this as part of a hair-loss prevention system.

    Read more about Azelaic Acid here:

    https://www.xandrox.com/azelaic.htm

    Nizoral Shampoo (2% Ketoconazole)
    When used EOD, Nizoral shampoo can help block the formation of DHT in the scalp. A special version of Nizoral shampoo , 'Regrowth Treatment Shampoo', is available that contains 3% salicylic acid . The salicylic acid helps strip dead layers off the epidermis from the scalp, resulting in greater absorption of the 2% Ketoconazole.

    Fluridil (Eucapil)
    I haven't learned much about this one yet. Thanks to LCSCULLA for bringing it to my attention. Supposedly has a longer half-life than Spiro. Cost might be prohibitive to some, but if it works as claimed it would be very valuable to those trying to save their hair. Also a general anti-androgen.

    Read up on Fluridil here:

    http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_tr...l/fluridil.cfm

    Ok, now we've covered treatments that can successfully block androgens and DHT at the scalp. For some, using these products alone might be enought to reverse MPB, prevent it during a cycle, etc.

    For those of you who are definitely prone to genetic MPB, you will need something to assist the stimulation of new hair growth:

    Hair Growth Stimulants

    After blocking androgens from affecting hair follicles, the next step is to attempt to promote hair regrowth.

    Minoxidil

    That's right, good ol' Rogaine. Well, the active ingredient in Rogaine, anyway. It was originally used as a high-blood pressure medication and vaso-dialator. Someone discovered that it increased hair growth on various parts of the body when taken in high enough concentrations orally. I guess from there they tried applying it to the scalp. Id love to be able to tell you exactly how Minoxidil works to regrow hair, but no one knows. Knowing that it works and has no systemic side effects is enough for now.

    A Note On Minoxidil Use
    Of course, there is a drawback with using Minoxidil to regrow your hair. You'll have to use it daily, forever. Its been shown that a few months after Minoxidil use has ceased, any hair regrown with it will start to shed. If your going to lose your hair anyway to genetic MPB, its a small trade off. 5 minutes 2x a day and there's a good chance youll keep your hair, or at the very minimum slow down the inevitable.

    In addition, in a small number of users, Minoxidil can cause some slight hair shedding when it is first applied. This is usually very minor and is actually a good indicator that Minoxidil is working for you. The hair that is shed eventually will grow back thicker, having been stimulated by the Minoxidil.

    Retin-A

    Retin-A, or Retonic Acid, can be used in combination with Minoxidil for a synergistic effect. Studies have shown that combined with minoxidil treatments it will regrow more hair faster than with minoxidil alone. It may increase the absorption of Minoxidil through the skin, it also may have some hair regenerative properties. Again, not much is known about its method of action, only that it has positive results.

    Low Level Laser Therapy (LLLT)

    Initially, the notion of firing lasers at your scalp might seem like something out of StarTrek, not a real-world hair loss treatment. However, studies are showing the biocell stimulation via laser light in a particular range can actually encourage the follicular cells to grow new hair. I wouldnt have believed it, unless I'd experienced it for myself!

    'Hair Loss Clinics' have been using 'Laser Hoods':

    http://hlcconline.com/buy-clinic-laser.shtml

    to treat hair loss for years, swearing up and down that it had a positive effect on regrowth. Im sure most people wrote them off as quack-jobs, until a company called HairMax developed a personal version and started marketing it for $700. I didnt hear about it until this DateLineNBC episode ran a segment called 'The Follicle Five', that documented 5 guys trying to save their hair via various methods:

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6590766/

    Oddly enough, the guy using the Laser Comb had some of the best results! After seeing that, I set off on some research and found that several people were actually building their own 'Laser Brushes' and reported similar results. After reading through a bunch of threads, I came to the conclusion I could build a LLLT unit myself and I did, for $50. With 6 650nm 5mw Laser Diodes mounted in a nice boar's bristle brush, Ive been using it for the recommend 10minutes 2x per week and honestly, my hair has never looked better.

    Keep in mind that I also started using Finasteride around the same time, but Finasteride isnt supposed to kick in for a couple months, and I noticed an improvement within 4 weeks using the laser brush.

    The 'Hair Loss Prevention Stack'

    So if you're truly worried about losing your hair, you have to take action as soon as possible. In this case especially, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. If you're got some very mild thinning or if you're not that suseptable to androgenic hair loss, then Nizoral Shampoo EOD might be enough to stave off hair loss.

    For others that are sure they're going to lose their hair, its best to attack the problem from all feasible angles as soon as possible. For this, there is what I like to call the 'Hair Loss Prevention Stack'

    My opinion is that your implementation of the various methods for combating hair loss should follow a level-based approach. Start small and work up. Keep in mind that once you start using a treatment, you have to keep using it. Forever. Studies show that with nearly any hair loss prevention treatment, discontinuing use will result in the person returning to his previous state of MPB within a few months.

    With this in mind, start with a solution that isnt too intrusive, and easy to maintain.

    Ive come up with a couple 'stacks' that could be implemented in a progessive manner. IE, if level 1 doesnt work, add level 2, etc.

    Check it out:

    Level 1:
    Regrowth Treatment Shampoo & LLLT
    Shampoo 3x per week
    LLLT 10 minutes per session 2x per week


    Squeeze a quarter sized amount into your hand, and shampoo your hair. Message it thourougly into your scalp, and leave in for about 5 minutes before rinsing. This shampoo dries your hair out, so its best to follow application with a good conditioner.

    With the Laser Brush, hold it in place on your scalp for about 4 seconds at a time. Move it all around your head, trying to cover all the scalp evenly.

    Level 2:
    (Level 1 + ...)
    Nighttime application:
    Minoxidil 5%/Azelaic Acid 5%/Retin-A 2% Solution
    Applied ED, at night before bed. Sunlight breaks down Retin-A and can cause it to irritate the scalp, so its really only to be used at night time. Apply 1ml to the affected areas of the scalp and message into the skin. If your hair loss in generalized, part your hair in several areas and apply the solution directly to the skin. Message into the skin.

    Daytime Application:
    Minoxidil 5%/Azelaic Acid 5% Solution
    Minoxidil/Azelaic Acid is meant to be applied 2x daily. You should use the Minoxidil w/Retin-A at night, and a solution containing Minoxidil and Azelaic Acid during the day. Try to keep the applications close to 12hrs apart if you can. Apply to the scalp following the same method as outlined above.

    The nighttime application of the Minoxidil solution that includes Retin-A is optional, and Ive found that it can irritate the scalp if used too often. If you choose not to go with the Retin-A, just use standard Minox/AA solution 2x per day.

    Level 3:

    (Level 1 + Level 2 + ...)

    Oral Finasteride @ 1 - 2mg/day

    You can get a script from your doc for the Finasteride, but it is also available from online vendors as a 'research chemical'. I prefer to keep the orals for last, as I'd rather not put another chemical in my body if I didnt have to.

    I suppose you could keep going further here, and implement Dutasteride if the Finasteride wasnt working for you, but you get the idea.

    The above products, when used in combination in a consistent daily regimen, have restored my thinning head of hair to a decently thick mane in the past 24 months. In fact, even on 200mg/1-test a day Ive had no shedding whatsoever.

    There are stronger concentrations of Minoxidil and Spiro solutions for those that arent responding to the 2% and 5% stuff. Always start with the lower dose, however. I have used Dr.Lee's 15% Minoxidil solution and I found it to be quite effective. As always, YMMV.

    A Final Note on Application
    Some complain that these products can make the hair look greasy. I find that if I lightly towel-dry my hair, (not the scalp), my hair looks completely dry as if nothing were applied.

    Where Do I Get This Stuff?

    There are few places to get there products on the web, at decent prices. Ive had very good experience with www.minoxidil.com. In order to order from the site, you have to have an email consultation with Dr.Lee (the Dr. who runs the site and has developed the treatment methods). Its really a no-hassle deal and you'll be able to order within a week or so. They have the biggest selection and its the only place to get the Regrowth Treatment Shampoo. However, their Xandrox products, while excellent quality, are a bit on the expensive side.

    www.wholesalehairproducts.com
    Ive ordered from this site many times, but Ive noticed at times their customer service can be shaky at times. I got a bottle of Finasteride from them that I found to have a concentration of 20mg/mL!! (supposed to have been 2mg/mL).
    Here's that thread:

    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/suppl...nasteride+wwhp

    A big bonus for me - but pretty alarming for obvious reasons, and after contacting them they had no idea that their product (which they get from another distributor) had such a high concentration.
    These things aside, they ship very quickly and the minoxidil products cost about 50% less than those at Dr.Lee's site, and they do work well. Fast shipping and quick response to emails too.

    Currently, Im using the 'Level 3' solution and experiencing excellent results. It took ~2 years to work my way into using oral finasteride, however. After you start a treatment, you really need to give it 2-3 months before you know if its working or not, sometimes longer. Some people have inhibitions about using topical treatments, but honestly, its not a big deal at all.

    Also, one thing I didnt mention here is actual hair replacement surgery. This is a permanent solution and might be the only option for a non-responder to any of the above treatments. There's tons of info about this out there on the web, I suggest you read up on it if you're interested.

    Hope that helped!
    BigVrunga

    1 - http://www.hairlosslearningcenter.or....asp?CopyID=22

    2 - http://www.forhair.com/dutasterideConsentForm.htm
    Last edited by BigVrunga; 02-16-2006 at 03:03 PM.

  2. Registered User
    Iron Warrior's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  265 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    5,328
    Rep Power
    13067

    Reputation

    This is sticky material huge props to you
  3. Anabolic Innovations Owner
    CROWLER's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Posts
    6,545
    Rep Power
    4828

    Reputation

    Finasteride 5mgs a day. Keep the hair on your head, less on your body and protects your prostate
    Sleep Supplement 3Z BCAA: Red Raspberry and Lemon flavors
    HGH/sleep enhancer: HGHpro
    Test Booster: TestoPRO and STOKED!
    Preworkout: MANIAC Fruit Punch and Pink Lemonade
    •   
       

  4. New Member
    sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    60
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    147

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CROWLER
    Finasteride 5mgs a day. Keep the hair on your head, less on your body and protects your prostate
    bump that,i use it every day.
  5. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    For some of us old guys *ahm*, who have been using Propecia aka Proscar from day one (I actually got my doctor to give me samples of proscar before it hit the market, so this give you an idea how long I have used it). After a few years (usually around three years finasteride loses some of it's strength) a person needs to move on to something a little stronger....Avodart. Fiasteride blocks only type 2 isomer of the 5Alpha-reductase and it's only around 75%. While Avodart blocks a large degree of both 1 and 2 of the 5Alpha-reductase enzyme, which results in a blockage of around 90-95% of DHT. But be warned some people have had horrible shedding on Avodart, while some (like myself) have had only positives.
  6. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    Do you guys notice any systemic side effects from the oral 5AR blockers? Any loss in strength at all? The topicals have worked so well for me that I recommend them. ...of course a combination of the two would be ideal for someone who has already lost a lot of hair.

    BV
  7. New Member
    sarge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    60
    Posts
    55
    Rep Power
    147

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    Do you guys notice any systemic side effects from the oral 5AR blockers? Any loss in strength at all? The topicals have worked so well for me that I recommend them. ...of course a combination of the two would be ideal for someone who has already lost a lot of hair.

    BV
    no i haven`t noticed any side effects from it.i take 1/4 ml of liquid proscar ed.now when i am on a cycle and using anywhere from 750mg to a gram of test a wk i will increase the proscar to 3/4 of a ml.it is 5mg per ml.this has worked for me.
  8. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    Do you guys notice any systemic side effects from the oral 5AR blockers? Any loss in strength at all? The topicals have worked so well for me that I recommend them. ...of course a combination of the two would be ideal for someone who has already lost a lot of hair.
    Sorry I havn't gotten to this BV. I have used oral 5Alpha-blockers for the last say 9 years, give or take a few months here or there, and I have not noticed a loss in strength. When Proscar came out a few Dr.'s thought that it would help the budding BBer because the test that was normally converted by the 5Alpha enzyme was left in it's pre coverted state: test. This caused test levels to go up. With Avodart I have heard average about 125%, but don't quote me.
  9. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    Really? Now that is something I didnt even consider. Did you notice any increase in strength or recovery when you started using Finasteride?

    BV
  10. New Member
    Renton405's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    130
    Rep Power
    186

    Reputation

    finisteride will halt muscle gains because of its strong inhibiting factors...I had this happen and when I stopped the propecia the gains came back again...its too strong of an antiandrogen

    Nizoral and spiro helps better for me without sacraficing the gains that the finisteride halted...
  11. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    [QUOTE]finisteride will halt muscle gains because of its strong inhibiting factors...I had this happen and when I stopped the propecia the gains came back again...its too strong of an antiandrogen[/QUOTE

    It may be individual, because I have never noticed anything like this. Plus I think that as many people use proscar in the BB community there would be more on it and I haven't seen it.
  12. New Member
    mtruther's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    214
    Rep Power
    235

    Reputation

    Over the past year, I've added 60 pounds to my benchpress and about 22 pounds of LBM (I'm now at 6' 195 lb, 26 years old). I did this completely naturally, just by altering my diet and changing my routine a bit. I had been working out for years, but I took things more seriously beginning a year ago. I've been on finasteride for about 6.5 years now.

    So no, I don't think finasteride has hurt my gains. And I've kept a full head of hair with no signs of failing effectiveness (also used minox during this time).

    I'm going to add some nizoral, AA, and spiro on my first PH stack. We'll see.
  13. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    Finasteride may work for some people and not others.

    Perhaps it has something to do with how much 5AR you have in your system. If someone who is sensitive to DHT, but dosent have an abundance of 5AR in his system goes on 5mg Finasteride/day - I suppose it could lower the amount of DHT in his system to levels that would effect strength.

    But, if the hair loss is caused by too much DHT caused by an abundance of the 5AR enzyme, then the same dose of finasteride could drop DHT production to within the normal range.

    Just a theory, but it kind of makes sense.

    BV
  14. Registered User
    shootmeagain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    476
    Rep Power
    361

    Reputation

    Finasteride - Side Effects



    Along with its needed effects this medicine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.

    Check with your doctor as soon as possible if any of the following side effects occur:


    • Less common
      • Breast enlargement and tenderness; skin rash; swelling of lips

      Breast enlargement and tenderness, skin rash and swelling of lips are more likely to occur with the 5-mg dose.

    Other side effects may occur that usually do not need medical attention. The following side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. However, check with your doctor if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome:


    • Less common or rare
      • Abdominal pain; back pain; decreased libido (decreased interest in sex); decreased volume of ejaculate (decreased amount of semen); diarrhea; dizziness; headache ; impotence (inability to have or keep an erection)

      A decrease in the amount of semen during ejaculation should not affect your sexual performance and is not a sign of any change in fertility.


    • Incidence Unknown
      • Testicular pain

    Other side effects not listed above may also occur in some patients. If you notice any other effects, check with your doctor.



    {Note: I do not post this as anti-finasteride, but simply in the interest of putting out ALL the facts about a substance. Personally, I choose to stay topical when defending against hair loss.}
  15. Board Supporter
    Y2Jversion1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    238
    Rep Power
    249

    Reputation

    A decrease in the amount of semen during ejaculation
    Yup..always happens when I'm on propecia...

    Shootmeagain - your post states 'smaller loads' as a rare or less common side - I think on the datasheet that came with my prop (legit prescribed) it says that this is a common side.. I'll verify again though..
  16. Board Supporter
    Y2Jversion1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    238
    Rep Power
    249

    Reputation

    Never mind..

    Adverse Effects

    PROPECIA is generally well tolerated. Adverse effects, which usually have been mild, generally have not required discontinuation of therapy.

    Finasteride for male pattern hair loss has been evaluated for safety in clinical studies involving more than 3,200 men. In three 12-month, placebo-controlled, double-blind, multicenter studies of comparable design, the overall safety profiles of PROPECIA and placebo were similar. Discontinuation of therapy due to any clinical adverse experience occurred in 1.7% of 945 men treated with PROPECIA and 2.1% of 934 men treated with placebo.

    In these studies, the following medicine-related adverse experiences were reported in ≥1% of men treated with PROPECIA: decreased libido (PROPECIA, 1.8% vs. placebo, 1.3%) and erectile dysfunction (1.3%, 0.7%). In addition, decreased volume of ejaculate was reported in 0.8% of men treated with PROPECIA and 0.4% of men treated with placebo. Resolution of these adverse effects occurred in men who discontinued therapy with PROPECIA and in many who continued therapy. In a separate study, the effect of PROPECIA on ejaculate volume was measured and was not different from that seen with placebo.

    The incidence of each of the above adverse effects decreased to ≤ 0.3% by the fifth year of treatment with PROPECIA.

    The following adverse experiences have been reported in postmarketing use: ejaculation disorder; breast tenderness and enlargement; hypersensitivity reactions including rash, pruritus, urticaria, and swelling of the lips and face; testicular pain.
  17. Board Supporter
    WannaGro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    246
    Rep Power
    247

    Reputation

    Lexi-Comp makes a desk refernce book for pharmacists which my girlfriend has (PhD in pharmacy) and I was reading about finasteride because I recently started taking it and it says that at 5mg/day circulating DHT will reach castration levels after 3 to 6 months of use. As far as I can figure if your castrated you have no DHT because you have no test. So I would think that its a bit more than 75% effective at 5mg/day, it seems like close to 100% going by this. This book is extremly accurate information since it is what is used in most pharmacy schools as well as hospitals and drug stores.

    -WannaGro
  18. New Member
    General_Jah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Age
    35
    Posts
    18
    Rep Power
    137

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    Nizoral Shampoo (2% Ketoconazole)
    When used EOD, Nizoral shampoo can help block the formation of DHT in the scalp. A special version of Nizoral shampoo , 'Regrowth Treatment Shampoo', is available that contains 3% salicylic acid . The salicylic acid helps strip dead layers off the epidermis from the scalp, resulting in greater absorption of the 2% Ketoconazole.

    BigVrunga
    You say it can help block the formation of DHT in the scalp. Do you have any articles explaining the why and/or how? The other topicals seems to have some actual evidence supporting their claims, can you point me towards a site that explains why Nizoral Shampoo actually helps blocking DHT? Not saying you are wrong, I'm just about to start a PH cycle and want to have a little piece of mind I won't lose anymore hair than I did when I took acutane when I was younger.

    Thanks
  19. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    Sure!

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14729013

    http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_tr...e_receptor.cfm

    Good page here:
    http://www.regrowth.com/hair_loss_tr...toconazole.cfm

    Not saying you are wrong, I'm just about to start a PH cycle and want to have a little piece of mind I won't lose anymore hair than I did when I took acutane when I was younger.
    Im not wrong bro. Not saying this 'hair loss combo' will work for everyone as well as it did for me, but a year ago I was noticeably thinning. Ive got a nice, full head of hair now and It continues to look better every month.

    So I can quote study after study, but I can also tell you from personal experience that it worked for me, and I have a strong genetic tendency for mpb.

    BV
  20. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    For all you non-belivers:)


    This is me, Dec2003
    Attached Images Attached Images   
  21. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    And today:
    Attached Images Attached Images    
  22. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    I wet my hair down for that third pic. Note my hair is now combed straight and foward as well. Rather than the combover I was attempting a year before Lighting is also directly above my head.

    Still not a luxuriously thick mop, but maybe in a year or two Ill get there

    BV
  23. New Member
    Meerschaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Age
    30
    Posts
    90
    Rep Power
    172

    Reputation

    Question


    what I wanna know is, whats the best thing to use when running tren?
  24. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    I would think Spironolactone.

    When on a cycle, personally I would run the whole stack. Azelaic,Minoxidil,and Spiro 2x a day. Nizoral 1x/day.

    BV
  25. Registered User
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2150

    Reputation

    Make this a Sticky


    This thread contains a ton of information that I spent months researching. Definite Sticky.

    I got Custom's AA and Spiro along w/ some Nizoral 2% about a week ago. I plan to use this combo for at least 6 months, at which point I might drop the spiro :Phew: I'll let you all know how it progresses. I plan to do a low dose 2 week M1T cycle in a couple of months, so I'll report on the effectiveness with a notorious PS.
  26. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    I would think Spironolactone.

    When on a cycle, personally I would run the whole stack. Azelaic,Minoxidil,and Spiro 2x a day. Nizoral 1x/day.

    BV
    I agree with the kitchen sink aproach. But my only gripe is that spiro only stays active in the scalp for a few hours.
  27. Advanced Member
    Odessa14's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    566
    Rep Power
    409

    Reputation

    Bump....seriously great thread...

    Anyone use AA solo for prevention? Seems like it would work for even a heavy cycle...
    Spiro sounds good, but application twice a day is something I would rather avoid, if possible....

    O14
  28. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Odessa14
    Bump....seriously great thread...

    Anyone use AA solo for prevention? Seems like it would work for even a heavy cycle...
    Spiro sounds good, but application twice a day is something I would rather avoid, if possible....

    O14
    BV might have a differnt take on this but here's mine. AA (combined with minox 12.5 % and 5%) did nothing more then regular minox. I know this does not exactly answer your question. But for me it would not be a mainstay of my hairloss prevention program.
  29. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    Bump....seriously great thread...

    Anyone use AA solo for prevention? Seems like it would work for even a heavy cycle...
    Spiro sounds good, but application twice a day is something I would rather avoid, if possible....
    Well, the thing you have to consider here is that Azelaic Acid is only working to block DHT. IMO, if you're NOT on a cycle, it *may* be sufficient because generally DHT is the prime factor in MPB when a male's hormonal balance is 'normal'. This is not to say that other androgens, or any other factors may be contributing to hair loss. It's just that, according to the most current studies, DHT is the molecule that is primarily responsible for most cases of MPB.

    While ON, however, you have to consider that you have an elevated amount of androgenic hormones flowing through your system. I believe that this may also contribute to shedding, especially in cases where the androgen in question dosent necessarily convert to DHT, but puts you at an increased risk of losing your hair. 1test comes to mind here, although it is known to have some DHT conversion it dosent convert through the 5AR pathway, like test(so its anyone's guess as to how much actually converts to DHT). Trenbolone is another highly androgenic hormone, which is known to aggrevate MPB, and I dont *think* it converts to DHT.

    So, when on a cycle I would think it would almost be necessary to apply 2% Spiro solution 2x per day. Even 3x per day if you can manage. Its a general anti-androgen and should block other androgenic molecules in the scalp, in addition to DHT. Keep an eye on Fluridil, its supposed to be more effective than Spiro, with a longer half-life. I dont think its available yet, however.

    BV might have a differnt take on this but here's mine. AA (combined with minox 12.5 % and 5%) did nothing more then regular minox. I know this does not exactly answer your question. But for me it would not be a mainstay of my hairloss prevention program.
    That's another point to consider - these hairloss treatments work to varying degrees of efficacy with those who try them. The AA/Minox combo seems to be working wonders for me, and yet LCSULLA didnt find AA all that helpful. Another reason to try the 'kitchen sink' approach. One product might work better for you than others, they may have varying degrees of synergy when working together, etc.

    If your losing your hair, and you want to save it, or if you're going on a cycle and you're worrying about losing it, dont cut corners. After you've seen some regrowth, you can always drop a product here or there and see if the positive effects slow down, etc. At the very least, I would always continue using minoxidil if you are currently losing hair.
  30. New Member
    IntResearch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Age
    35
    Posts
    5
    Rep Power
    124

    Reputation

    The new kid on the block is Duasteride. I am yet to try it though in place of finasteride. Good post!!!
  31. Diamond Member
    John Smeton's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Age
    33
    Posts
    10,014
    Rep Power
    33557

    Reputation

    there was a thread a while back that nizoral 1 % is as good as 2%.

    i would like to be safe,anyone know a website where i can buy 2 %/

    also is spiro taken orally or is it rubbed on hair?
  32. New Member
    SpecialK117's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Age
    32
    Posts
    126
    Rep Power
    189

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea
    there was a thread a while back that nizoral 1 % was as good as 2%.

    i would like to be safe,anyone know a website where i can buy 2 %/

    also is spiro taken orally or is it rubbed on hair?
    www.nizoral2percent.com

    Spiro is applied topically.
  33. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    [QUOTE=BigVrunga]
    Keep an eye on Fluridil, its supposed to be more effective than Spiro, with a longer half-life. I dont think its available yet, however.
    You can get it from overseas. And it should be no problem importing because it is considered a "cosmetic" in the EU. I know a couple site that sell it. I'll post the links if people want me to?

    That's another point to consider - these hairloss treatments work to varying degrees of efficacy with those who try them. The AA/Minox combo seems to be working wonders for me, and yet LCSULLA didnt find AA all that helpful. Another reason to try the 'kitchen sink' approach. One product might work better for you than others, they may have varying degrees of synergy when working together, etc.

    If your losing your hair, and you want to save it, or if you're going on a cycle and you're worrying about losing it, dont cut corners. After you've seen some regrowth, you can always drop a product here or there and see if the positive effects slow down, etc. At the very least, I would always continue using minoxidil if you are currently losing hair.
    I agree with BV on this approach while on gear. Normally I use Avodart x 1 and 5% minox x2 and this works well. But if I was using, let's say Tren, test and dbol, then I would be using Avodart, 5% Xondax (sp?), Fluridil, and 2% Nizoral. Also keep in mind that if you jump up minox % then there will be a shedding phase. So if you use 5% on a everyday basis, then jump to 12.5 (or even 15%) while using gear, there will be a 3-6 month period where you shed. Thsi is just something I think people should keep in mind.
  34. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    You can get it from overseas. And it should be no problem importing because it is considered a "cosmetic" in the EU. I know a couple site that sell it. I'll post the links if people want me to?
    Please do!
  35. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    Please do!
    www.menspharma.com
    www.vitaminox.com

    I know these two sell it. I have heard that menspharma is pretty reliable. The second, Viaminox is a German site. But I think it delivers to the US and the page is in english
  36. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    I wonder how effective it is compared to spiro - its nearly 3x as much. Great info though, Ill definately keep up on it. Thanks bro.

    BV
  37. Senior Member
    LCSULLA's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Age
    43
    Posts
    1,759
    Rep Power
    1022

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    I wonder how effective it is compared to spiro - its nearly 3x as much. Great info though, Ill definately keep up on it. Thanks bro.

    BV
    I am going to run it with a cycle in the next few months, so I will keep you updated.
  38. Registered User
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2150

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    I wonder how effective it is compared to spiro - its nearly 3x as much. Great info though, Ill definately keep up on it. Thanks bro.

    BV
    Don't forget, those prices were in pounds, not $$$$. The $ is extremely weak right now, to the point that people fly from Paris and London just to go shopping.
  39. Elite Member
    BigVrunga's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Age
    38
    Posts
    5,063
    Rep Power
    2682

    Reputation

    I think its Euros, thought it was pounds too but when you click the Paypal like the currency is in Euros.
  40. Registered User
    Beowulf's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,430
    Rep Power
    2150

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    I think its Euros, thought it was pounds too but when you click the Paypal like the currency is in Euros.
    Even still, the $ is weak-as-hell compared to the Euro. The Euro was initially tied to the $, but it has gotten stronger as the $ has gotten weaker.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. hair loss prevention
    By BOVEY in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 50
    Last Post: 09-14-2007, 10:46 PM
  2. Hair Loss Prevention?
    By BigVrunga in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 04-12-2006, 06:45 PM
  3. hair loss prevention while on test enth?
    By gator0090 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-23-2005, 02:54 PM
  4. MDHT and hair loss prevention?
    By z28man in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 11-11-2004, 11:52 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in