Hair Loss Prevention

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    Is the Finasteride from CEM products or other research chemical companies the real deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rockscar
    Losing hair definately sucks. I've been battling it with anything I can get!!
    you can laugh at me but I swear by it....It's called Do Grow, a sally beauty product...( dont know if you know what that is)....they selll it..I have alot of new baby hair...
    RIP Ryan, :(
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    Do you have a link or info? Never heard of Do Grow.
    •   
       

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    Is the Finasteride from CEM products or other research chemical companies the real deal?
    Yep.

    BV
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    ok BV i have some pictures i took ust now. im on a superdrol cycle(which isnt supposed to have much or any dhtbuildup) i also take azelaic acid twice daily and nizoral once or twice a week. ive noticed when i immeditaly get out of the shower (i just got my hair cut short so i didnt notice this before when my hair was longer) that it looks like a part and i can see some skin. i cannot see this when my hair is dry and i was wondering if you know anything about this

    i attached the pics
    1. hair is wet
    2. hair is wet
    3. hair is wet but i brushed it down
    4. showing off my traps
    5. my quads
    6. my abs (btw i dont mean to get offtrack but im proud to have acheived my bodybuilding goal,,, and btw the quads and abs pics are old, and ive gained some size since then; however the traps pic is today)

    im at 220 lbs now but my main concern is my hair.
    Attached Images Attached Images       
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    Smeton,

    Nice work on the last 3 pics - looking good! As far as the hair thing goes, i dont think you have anything to worry about man. When your hair is wet, its going to look thinner. You just got your hair cut and you're paying attention to it more because youre on a cycle, so you see a little scalp and you get worried. I think its just psychological. If you're MPB was accellerating due to the anabolics, you'd see it thinning at the areas where you would naturally thin/receede.

    Pay attention to your hands while your shampooing your hair in the shower - if you're done scrubbing your head and there are a bunch of hairs in your hand, you can bet there is some shedding going on. Granted a losing a few is normal - in fact I its normal to lose like 50-100 hairs a day as part of the normal growth process when you're in a shedding phase. If you grab about 100 hairs and give them a good tug, its normal to loose about 1-7 strands. (I think that's correct)

    Check out this link for a more detailed explaination:

    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/hair_los...r_shedding.cfm

    From your pics, your hair looks fine. If you're really concerned, pick up some 2% spiro and dab it on the areas that appear to be thinning 1x per day while your on cycle. But seriously bro I dont think its necessary.

    BV
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    Thanks so much BV.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    Smeton,

    Nice work on the last 3 pics - looking good! As far as the hair thing goes, i dont think you have anything to worry about man. When your hair is wet, its going to look thinner. You just got your hair cut and you're paying attention to it more because youre on a cycle, so you see a little scalp and you get worried. I think its just psychological. If you're MPB was accellerating due to the anabolics, you'd see it thinning at the areas where you would naturally thin/receede.

    Pay attention to your hands while your shampooing your hair in the shower - if you're done scrubbing your head and there are a bunch of hairs in your hand, you can bet there is some shedding going on. Granted a losing a few is normal - in fact I its normal to lose like 50-100 hairs a day as part of the normal growth process when you're in a shedding phase. If you grab about 100 hairs and give them a good tug, its normal to loose about 1-7 strands. (I think that's correct)

    Check out this link for a more detailed explaination:

    http://www.hairlosshelp.com/hair_los...r_shedding.cfm

    From your pics, your hair looks fine. If you're really concerned, pick up some 2% spiro and dab it on the areas that appear to be thinning 1x per day while your on cycle. But seriously bro I dont think its necessary.

    BV
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    i have an opportunity to overcome this now before i get older. im 25. Recently i did a superdrol cycle and completed post cycle therapy for 5 weeks...im just using up the last of Gaspari's novadex xt up. well recently fr the last few weeks i apply the azelaic acid when i get up and beore i go to bed. well i run my hands though my hair making sure and the AA gets on my hair about 10-15 times and every time about 10 hairs are on my hands. I do this for about 5 times....so about 50 hairs are coming out just on my hands in one session. two sessions a day thats 100 hairs, and i dont know how many fall out in between. Has anyone encountered this challange?

    do i need to bump it up to the next level? if so any suggestions please
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    i have an opportunity to overcome this now before i get older. im 25. Recently i did a superdrol cycle and completed post cycle therapy for 5 weeks...im just using up the last of Gaspari's novadex xt up. well recently fr the last few weeks i apply the azelaic acid when i get up and beore i go to bed. well i run my hands though my hair making sure and the AA gets on my hair about 10-15 times and every time about 10 hairs are on my hands. I do this for about 5 times....so about 50 hairs are coming out just on my hands in one session. two sessions a day thats 100 hairs, and i dont know how many fall out in between. Has anyone encountered this challange?

    do i need to bump it up to the next level? if so any suggestions please
    That could be shedding due to the anabolics, and your HPTA coming back online during PCT. Your natural test will spike at times during recovery, resulting in an increaase in DHT.

    Are you taking Finasteride or another oral DHT blocker? You may want to try moderately high doses of saw palmetto extract to start- Ive been reading some reports that claim to see success fighting hairloss with SP.

    Also, give the laser comb a try - so far Ive heard nothing but positive results from it, it also seems to be working very well for me

    BV
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    That could be shedding due to the anabolics, and your HPTA coming back online during post cycle therapy. Your natural test will spike at times during recovery, resulting in an increaase in DHT.

    Are you taking Finasteride or another oral DHT blocker? You may want to try moderately high doses of saw palmetto extract to start- Ive been reading some reports that claim to see success fighting hairloss with SP.

    Also, give the laser comb a try - so far Ive heard nothing but positive results from it, it also seems to be working very well for me

    BV
    No not oral dht blockers. Only topical Nizoral (once or twice weekly) and Azelaic acid(every 12 hours)
    I take about 2 grams of saw palmetto a day and have been doing so for about 2 years. ys ive also heard saw palmetto is a dht blocker but it's not proven to block hair(though the researchers said it may) but its blocking the dht in the prostate. cool ill keep everyone posted
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    Regrow your hair guaranteed www.yourhairback.com/9117

    100% Guaranteed:good:
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    is that your domain Smeton? Looks like its not set up yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    is that your domain Smeton? Looks like its not set up yet.
    No thats not my domian. I got that out of a fashion magazine..i wrote it down on a peice of paper while i was looking at it in wal-mart. Im getting into acting.If anyone can help me with acting just give me a pm or post of whatever. Im a newbie in actign and if i want it bad enough ill have to go though with it,:bb: ill be one of these actors but not just a musclehead actor- i want to actually emotionally move people, like James dean did on screen or like some movies with Brad Pitt. not JUST tough guy roles(although it is cool to be a tough guy =)- anyways keepign your hair is the main point of this thread so lets keep up the good work.

    My hair isnt coming out like it was 2 weeks ago. you might have been right about coming off superdrol , and nolvadex xt. it was about a month , month and a half in noladex xt when that happened. who knows what it was
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    Just wanted to bump this for a quick query. I vaguely remember reading something about topical spiro being absorbed systemically to an extent which can hurt gains or mess with the endocrine system. Is there any basis for this?
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    One of the member some pages back had issues with Spiro being absorbed systemically. Some reports (based on a small number of testers) claim that Spiro is not an issue when applied topically.

    Be on the safe side - Spiro is a *potent* anti androgen and you DONT want this stuff in your system as a male. Keep its use to on-cycle only, if using a hormone that causes hair loss due to an androgenic molecule other than DHT synthesized from 5AR (1-test, tren,etc).

    It may work great for you with no sides, but it seems to be dependant on the individual so you wont know unless you try it and get bloodwork some time after starting use.

    BV
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    update- My hair is still coming out when i put Azelaic Acid though my hair twice daily. like if i run my hand thouhg my hair 10 times, applying the azelaic acid, about 10 - 15 hairs are in my hand the first time and then the numbers go down. all together if i do it about 50 hairs come out each time. its actually getting scarey. does anyone else have this challange and is it normal? or am i losing my hair? is this a beginning stage or what...ill keep paying attention and keep you posted.
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    Yeah Smeton keep paying attention but dont keep tugging on your hair and freaking about it - just makes things worse.

    What treatments are you using right now? Are you noticing any visible thinning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigVrunga
    Yeah Smeton keep paying attention but dont keep tugging on your hair and freaking about it - just makes things worse.

    What treatments are you using right now? Are you noticing any visible thinning?
    Azelaic Acid twice daily(every 12 hours) and nizoral 2 % twice weekly. No im not noticing any thinning. now when i get out of the shower i see a part but when my hair is combed down i dont notice it- my parnets and brother say its normal to have that. other than that i dont see any visable thinning...and im keeping paying attention.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smeton_yea
    Azelaic Acid twice daily(every 12 hours) and nizoral 2 % twice weekly. No im not noticing any thinning. now when i get out of the shower i see a part but when my hair is combed down i dont notice it- my parnets and brother say its normal to have that. other than that i dont see any visable thinning...and im keeping paying attention.
    Yes its normal to have a part in your hair, and hair does look thinner when its wet. You could just be going through a normal telogen phase - everone does every 1-2 years or so. You'll shed hair for 4-6 weeks while new hair is growing in to replace it. Plus, these shedding phases often happen in the springtime - it really could be just that.

    If you want to add a nother treatment to your regimen,Id recommend the Laser brush at 10min EOD.

    BV
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    What exactly is the purpose of the laser comb..ie. how does it stimulate hair growth?
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    I have a few quick questions.

    First Concern:

    Regarding minoxidil. My hair fortunately is somewhat thick. What is the best way to apply it so that it is all absorbed? My only solution so far is to use triple the amount (generic 5%) in the hopes that enough will be absorbed. As it stands now I get my hair quite wet and think much of it gets wasted.

    Other Stuff:

    I like the idea of using Spiro to prevent Tren hairloss sides. I however don't want to be the guinea pig. Last time I ran the acetate ester I thought all my hair just might fall out. Do we have experiential feedback on it yet? Anyone here using it effectively with tren?

    As it stands I plan to use the following and stick with test prop and superdrol.

    Finasteride ED - on cycle only. I am going to risk the libido loss side effects for the duration of my cycle and use this. I don't think topicals alone will do it.
    Minoxidil - 2x ED always
    AA - 2x ED indefinitely
    Nizoral Indefinitely

    I am on my third month on minoxidil and will probably start the finasteride two weeks or so before my next cylce of test/superdrol. I have been off of all androgens since mid January or thereabouts.

    TIA for any feedback.

    -Cardinal
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    ok im not noticing any thinning visually. today i applied the Azelaic acid on my hair , ran it tough about 15 times on the spots i want to apply it too and no joke i had 30-50 hairs(not exgaarating either) on my right hand-thats the hand i apllied the AA with. they were all clumped together . I did fo roughly though my hair but still 50 hairs on my hand but ive got to find out the most information i can, My hair has never done this before(that ive noticed) is the Azleiac Acid causing this or is the ETHLY rubibng alochol 70 % causing this.(thats the formula the website selling the AA recommended-use 10 cc's of AA with 1/2 a cup of ETHLY rubbing alcholol)..any sugestions..knowledge on this particular thing
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    Smeton,

    Can you see the bulbs at the end of each hair shaft?

    Cardinal,

    I have a few quick questions.

    First Concern:

    Regarding minoxidil. My hair fortunately is somewhat thick. What is the best way to apply it so that it is all absorbed? My only solution so far is to use triple the amount (generic 5%) in the hopes that enough will be absorbed. As it stands now I get my hair quite wet and think much of it gets wasted.
    Best solution is to part your hair in 6-8 different spots, and apply the minoxidil solution with an eyedropper directly to the scalp and message in. Or keep your hair really short.

    Other Stuff:

    I like the idea of using Spiro to prevent Tren hairloss sides. I however don't want to be the guinea pig. Last time I ran the acetate ester I thought all my hair just might fall out. Do we have experiential feedback on it yet? Anyone here using it effectively with tren?
    I used spiro to keep hair loss at by with 1test/4AD - I didnt lose any.

    As it stands I plan to use the following and stick with test prop and superdrol.

    Finasteride ED - on cycle only. I am going to risk the libido loss side effects for the duration of my cycle and use this. I don't think topicals alone will do it.
    Minoxidil - 2x ED always
    AA - 2x ED indefinitely
    Nizoral Indefinitely
    That sounds like a good plan!


    BV
    Last edited by BigVrunga; 06-13-2006 at 12:51 AM.
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    I recently came up with a 'homebrew' hair loss formula. It contains ingredients that have been shown to block the actions of DHT on the hair follicles, as well as stimulate blood circulation. If anyone would like to try it, the ingredients include aloe vera gel, 20% azelaic acid cream, saw palmetto pulp, polysorbate 80, nizoral 2% or ketoconazole powder (dissolved), l-arginine, phlojel ultra, green tea and emu oil.
    I haven't yet figured out the best ratio of ingredients to use, so someone might like to experiment a little. I just mixed together a small amount of each ingredient, then applied it to the thinning areas of my scalp. I plan to this every night for several months.
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    Hi!
    First of all great thread! Iam new havent read the whole thread.
    Anyways, Iam thinking of running a cycle of either deca or testo ena. The question is wich would be the safest consider my hair? Perhaps obvious answer here though u have to consider that i will use finastride 1mg along with nizoral and spiro in case of picking testo ena. With both i will use hcg for post cycle therapy and to keep the nuts alive espacily during deca wich will boost testo levels and aswell dht right?! (btw I already suffer from MPB and use minox)
    Give me your opinons on this please!


    Btw I have read that there was a women who suffered from hairloss and she was treated with small doses of deca and this was sucessfull. Her endogen testo levels must have been shut down and thereby DHT I think. Not a good way to treat hairloss perhaps. Anybody heard about that?


    Every knows how much DHT finastride blocks. BUT the big question is how much DHT is in ones body or convert?
    The general amount of testo produced in a normal man in his 20 I think is between 7-11mg each day. How much convert to DHT?
    If I run a cycle 250mg testo ena, how much convert to DHT?

    Not knowing the amount of DHT in normal cases and during cycles its hard to evaluate how effektive its going to be without running the cycle of course but would be nice too have a hinch before I think
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    Bv what are bulbs?

    also yes ive heard saw palmetto(but not in oral form) blocks dht.
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    Smeton: When you are looking at the hair, check the end and see if you see a little white or colored piece that looks kind of like dandruff? I think that is what he is talkling about when referring to the bulb.

    BV: I will definitely try the multiple parting trick. That is an excellent idea I haven't thought of yet. I may try cutting it shorter next time. Might be easier to see the visible results of thickening. Thanks for the input!

    Nomen: The question of how effective finasteride will be is what I want to know too. One way to find out is just to try it. There may be too many individual differences wrt finasteride to tell if it will work for you or not. I would actually run Test Prop before Test Enanthate and use finasteride along with it at whatever you think a safe maximal dose is. That way you can vary the dosing of testosterone and can stop if the problem isn't kept under control by your plan.

    There is also a short ester deca out there Nandrolone Phenylprop I think it is called. I don't know how deca is on the hairline since I have never used it, but starting shorter ester is always a possibility.
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    I started going bald at around 20 and now just bic my head a couple times a week.

    It is a truly liberating feeling to not have to worry about hair loss like most of you guys do; mine is already gone, and was gone well before I did my first PH cycle back in '04.
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    I started going bald at around 20 and now just bic my head a couple times a week.

    It is a truly liberating feeling to not have to worry about hair loss like most of you guys do; mine is already gone, and was gone well before I did my first PH cycle back in '04.
    I can feel you bro, I know what you're talking about. Im not really too concerned with it as I once was. The treatments described in this thread have been working pretty well and there's really no noticable thinning or receeding...and I started losing it at 22.

    Still, I never know when it just might stop working - Im prepared for a chrome dome if need be

    BV
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    Cardinal: short esters is a great ide. Testo prop i think its going to be! How fast will i notice if its working with finastride during a cycle will the results be shown afterwords or will I shed hours after injecktion?
    Btw is there perhaps som expert that we could mail too find out the general conversion rate to dht on testo ena? Cant find any info out there. Iam starting to think that there might not be any study of dht conversion rate, too bad!

    Bigvrunga: read your shedding has stoped. Its because u have stopped cycled on roids or do u still cycle?
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    Bigvrunga: read your shedding has stoped. Its because u have stopped cycled on roids or do u still cycle?
    Ive only done 2 cycles of hormones bro, 1test/4AD transdermals and the last one was over 2 years ago. Oddly - never had any shedding from the 1-test, its all genetic MPB.

    BV
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    Yes bigvrunga mpb is geneticly inherited that I know. And if you are prone to mpb cycle on roids or in your case prohormones could/will speed the shedding up if not taking finastride etc!?

    some article:


    Production Rates of Dihydrotestosterone in Healthy Men and Women and in Men with Male Pattern Baldness: Determination by Stable Isotope/Dilution and Mass Spectrometry -- Vierhapper et al. 86 (12): 5762 -- Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism

    "In the majority of men with male pattern baldness endogenous production of DHT is markedly increased, providing a rationale for therapeutic 5{alpha}-reductase inhibition in this disorder."

    conversion rates with prohormonesyour prohormoner 4-Androstenedione has a conversion rate of 5%)
    http://www.developed.net/resrces.htm

    Btw why do u think dht makes u shed? Is dht blocking nutrient supply to the hairbulb or does the body immune system repel the hairbuld once dht has connected too the bulb?
    Since laser treatmeant is suppose to increase blodflow and thereby nutrient to the hair, it should be a realy succesfull method if dht is blocking nutrient right?
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    Btw why do u think dht makes u shed? Is dht blocking nutrient supply to the hairbulb or does the body immune system repel the hairbuld once dht has connected too the bulb?
    Since laser treatmeant is suppose to increase blodflow and thereby nutrient to the hair, it should be a realy succesfull method if dht is blocking nutrient right?
    Ideally, you'll be using both DHT inhibitors like azelaic acid, nizoral and finasteride in combination with hair growth stimulants like the laser brush and minoxidil for best results.

    BV
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    ok this has been going on wayyy too long for me. for about a month now ive been shreddign when i get in the shower 50 hairs 2 xs a day oare on my hands. i combed my hair back strait back today and it seems to have receded, and my brother when i asked his opinion on my hair, he said it looks like it has receded. Now ive been reading on hairloss forums that the ethly alochol (ive been using 1/2 cup of elthy alochol for every 10 cc's of Azelaic acid) i use it twice daily, some guys were complaining that when they started using Azleiac acid they started thinning. well ive been using it since November, and have found out ive been using too much every application. I hope its not the ethly alcohol that doing this, or i hope the azelaic acid isnt doing this. ok here are some pics taking about 15 minutes ago.

    im not going to go bald and ill pay for a hair transplant if i have too . should i try like saw palmetto cream..anyone know how effective this is?

    i dont want to do oral dht blockers. Spiro is an opinion but i dont want my head smelling like spiro smells. im 25 years old.

    http://www.ihostphotos.com/- heres a link where you can upload your pictures frotn shot close-up, , front shot, and side shot, btw side side doesnt looklike i have it.








    comments, questions, suggestions, solutions bring it on
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    smeton,

    Your hair is definitely receeding. I dont know how you are mixing your Azelaic acid, but a concentration higher than 5% would be ill-advised. Azelaic acid is, after all, a low-PH compound and too much can cause skin irritation. Skin irritation can lead to inflammation, and inflammation of the scalp and lead to shedding. Some even theorize that this may be another mechanism for DHT's method of action.

    Anyway, your problem now is twofold because:

    a.)You are losing most of your hair from the front of the scalp, and
    b.)You don not want to use finasteride, which has been proven effective for frontal hair regrowth.

    Finasteride has been used for hair loss for quite some time now, so I think low doses of it are safe. Of course, you should see your doc first (Im a hypocrite, as I didnt). If I were you, I would immediately:

    1.)Start Finasteride at 1.25mg/day
    2.)Purchase a proven Minoxidil/Azelaic acid solution from either Dr.Lee (the best , but expensive) or wholesalehairproducts.com and apply to the effected area of your scalp 2x per day.
    3.)Shampoo with Nizoral EOD
    4.)Purchase or build a laser brush and use on the effected areas of the scalp EOD for 10minutes each session
    5.)Ensure that you are eating with the proper amount of healthy fats and high in anti-oxidants (this is good for you anyway, but proper nutrition is essential for healthy hair)

    I know you are on the fence about finasteride. I was too for the longest time but eventually went with it, and with good results. Ive actually stopped using it about 3 weeks ago just to see what would happen, and as of this point Ive experienced no shedding, and my hair looks better than ever.

    I HIGHLY recommend you try LLLT, its shaping up to be a very effective weapon in the fight against MPB. Looking at your pics, you are definitely effected by Androgenic Alopecia and should follow the advice above for optimal results. This is the regimen I follow, and I still have a full head of hair.

    BV
  36. Gold Member
    Beowulf's Avatar
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    Big V,
    Any thoughts on something like this Balding Product for Hair Loss Cures - Natural Balding Solution

    Mi mujer wants me to try it b/c it is "natural"...

    EDIT: I just looked at it again. $40 for 2-3 weeks is a bleepin' ripoff
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    what is LLT?

    also you said You are losing most of your hair from the front of the scalp....actually i have had a widows peajk since i was young. The pics i showed above are me getting out of the shower with my hair wet and combed back. its dry now and combed back and doesnt look like that now it looks full. when i comb my hair down it also looks full like i have a full head of hair. regardless my hair has been failing out in the shower and im analyzing and paying attention to the cause. whether it be the AA or just mpb.

    I host is not letting me host any pictures right now
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    Just a thought--LLLT is delivered via a brushing action; 10-20 minutes a day. Rarely if ever do many men spend even 1/4 of this time brushing their hair. Is i possible that the brushing action itself improves hair quality and scalp health? Maybe the lasers are only slightly significant? Ideas?
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    Also, I have some Fini, as well as the arsenal of Nizoral 2% and AA, primarily with the goal of stopping the slight recession and slight thinning I've experienced (I'm 30), and eliminating possibility of acceleration of these symptoms on upcoming cycle. Is Fini overkill? I don't have any real shedding. Last time I shed like mad was on ATD during PCT (never again), and Ergomax, of all things.
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    yep i started shredding on nolvadex xt. but i didnt on superdrol - strange anyways JUST IN THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT NEWS on azelaic acid.In my quest to find out the cause of my shredding the website i think i posted on here a while back(i still have the website but i dont know the rules on posting websites) The guy who owns that website has been studying hairloss for 7 years. Just in October 05 or Nov 05 he recommended, on the site, to mix 10 cc's or 6 grams of Azelaic Acid with 4 ounces of Ethly Alcohol.

    Now he changed his view, after 7 years of research saying that that much is overkill(this is how much is in Dr. Lees X-solution) now he says do 3 grams or 5cc's mix it with 2 oz of elthy alcohol 70% let it disolve for 15-30 mins than add 2 oz distilled water. Ill be observing my hair coming up. i poured all my old solution down the toliet and am making a new batch. This is Good news to anyone that uses 5 % Azelaic Acid. He saYS 5 % IS OVERKILL and 2.5 is better. Id had to share the love with you guys . This hair loss prevention thread and this whole board is awesome. Im happy lol

    could it have been too much Ethly Alcohol or to much Azelaic acid?

    i think so

    cheers btw i have the website )that he changed directions for making the AA solution) if im allowed to post it. I think i posted it a while back in this thread.
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