The M1T conspiracy!
- 11-30-2004, 05:45 PM
The M1T conspiracy!
Could of used the "I love M1T" thread for this but I feel it deserves another.
I frequent all the boards and have noticed a growing hatred of M1T and have been waiting to post
on this. I don't doubt many have had bad experiences with it and am also very aware of the side effects but I've never seen a compound beaten up so much before. Bottom line. Low low freakin low price, moderate to high risk (some of which can be managed by supplemental protectants, proper minium dosage, short cycle length) and high reward. Period. There just seems to be a growing hatred for it bordering on hysteria. "Makes arsenic look like vitamin C", "Just looking at a bottle will turn off test production for a decade", "Worse than the ebola virus"..... While I made those up they are not far off if you frequent these parts. Alot of my issues have to due with the upcoming ban and those of us on a budget, which I feel is the majority. I've been a bit jaded about our friendly vendors leading up to the ban not making certain powders available for us cost minded homebrewers. Not every one can stock up for a decent period(3-5 years) buying tableted products. Maybe I'm a skeptic but I hope folks don't rush to empty their bank accounts to obtain the last greatest "new" product to be released before the ban without first researching cheaper time tested options(ie, 1test/4ad homebrew). Lots of money can and has been made by many these past few months. Hell Im guilty as well...anyone want ripped fuel or some mdien....MDHT looked good...but wait I need how many capsules for effective dose? Back to M1T. Yeah we all know the pitfalls but for me I've had the best gains ever and I use and plan to use it about 4-8 weeks total a given year. For me 5mg twice a day with homebrew 4AD and homebrewed Nolva pct makes sense and cents for me. Cheers and happy holidays! back to lurking...
- 11-30-2004, 05:59 PM
I am one of those aforementioned M1T haters. I hated on it at some length in my pre-ban guide. I also gave better alternatives, and pointed to sources so that people could homebrew and get the same gains as they would from M1T, over a little more time, but a lot more healthy. Most of the M1T hating comes from rational grounds. But if you are using it occasionally at 10mg/day, that is cheap and damned effective. For every one person like you with a moderate approach, there are 30 guys who will do 30mg a day for 6-10 weeks, which is just flat out stupid.
- 11-30-2004, 06:01 PM
11-30-2004, 06:31 PM
I would disagree with what you call "M1t Hating" it's more like m1t fact. I am glad you decided to make your first post so insightful. If you look closer we are trying to be objective and examine all of the aspects of m1t. Like Strateg0s explained there are other alternatives that can give similar if not better results without the bs you get with m1t. Is m1t effective? Yes. Is m1t cost effective?? Yes. Is m1t worth it??? IMO No.
11-30-2004, 06:33 PM
I will probably never use it again. The gains to sides ratio just isnt big enough to me. I did 15mg ed for two weeks and then quit
11-30-2004, 06:34 PM
11-30-2004, 06:36 PM
I wouldnt say moderate risk. Even in low dose, 10mgs per day, it will only take about 14 days to destroy cholesterol levels, and although most people disregard that, its a huge problem. On top of the feeling like ****, needing to use 4 ad just so you can move, long pct because of it being so suppressive, progesterene affinity for gyno, water rentention in the kidneys, high liver toxicity, high bp, headaches etc. Honestly its a terrible drug, how much muscle is actually gained and kept after fully recovering from a 3 week cycle. Full pct, then 2 weeks later what is the avg gaines kept? Its not as much as everyone thinks it is, and the cost isnt low if you need to use other drugs to combat all the side effects.
Like I have said, 10-20mgs per day, 2-3 week cycle no more then 2 times per year and i think you are fine. anymore then that and you are pushing for problems with your health.
11-30-2004, 06:40 PM
Of course, the problem is NO one runs M1T alone. So if you stack M1T with 4ad and ECA, then run a full 4 week pct with nolva, then 2 weeks later check how much overall muscle you have gained, I think you could get the same job done with 6 weeks of M4OHN and 1test. Its MUCH less toxic, wont destroy your cholesterol, you dont need to run anything else with it, you can probably get away with 4 weeks pct.Originally Posted by DemonicPrime
But this is just my opinion.
11-30-2004, 06:49 PM
I agree with Sledge here. No you are not going to find a more potent oral, besides maybe d-bol, but there are other routes you can take that offer the same if not better results. Yes it will cost more money, but in the long run my health is more important than how much money I can spend. Read Strateg0s's article, there are plenty of good ideas in there.
11-30-2004, 07:58 PM
i think the negative m1t is vastly overblown. but then i'm a contrarian. consider that #1 if m1t isn't bashed, then all these new "wonder methyls" lose a lot of their appeal #2 it is beyond cheap, and it is undeniably effective
the sides aren't fun for many, but let's be realistic. the sides of really intense training can suck, too. ever try 20 rep squats. it's phenomenal pain, and i often could barely walk afterwords, for many hours
it's all about cost/benefit ratio
but i think m1t is way overcriticized. it's like "reverse hype"
11-30-2004, 08:03 PM
Please you can't compare possible health issues with pain from squats. I agree that it's effective, but there are real issues here.
11-30-2004, 08:40 PM
11-30-2004, 08:45 PM
I don't necessarily have a problem with it if it is used in moderation like sledge said. I don't mind using it myself. (and anything over 10mg is just ridiculous) BUT I would MUCH MUCH rather see posts of, as you say, "M1T hating" than all the posts you see "I take M1T like candy and I'm 18". It would probably save alot more people's health if it wasn't made out to be the miracle PH that alot of people think it is, thanks to some boards
....*cough* BB.com *cough*...
11-30-2004, 08:46 PM
well its not much reversed hype, i would be willing to bet everyone has some in their stockpile. almost everyone has used it, even 18 year old newbies with no exp with anything other then creatine have used it for multiple cycles.
mg to mg i would be willing to bet its more toxic to the body then halotestin but NO ONE would even think about using that as an 18 year old.
Also hardly anyone gets blood work, let alone regular bloodwork, they think they just add some NAC in there and they are fine. That is the real problem I have with it. Its so common to be used that people think, yeah its toxic but ill use it 3 weeks at a time. Its probably the third most toxic compound ever made and it should be treated like that.
No bashing, its toxic to everything in the body and because of it everytime you use it you should get blood work post cycle to see how your body is. It should be taken that seriously.
11-30-2004, 09:01 PM
that's not a very intelligent statement. there is a difference between lactic acid build up and your cholesterol levels bottoming out, blood pressure way above hypertension levels, headaches, limp dick, and the other host of sides associated with M1T. can you prevent/hide some side effects with other drugs? sure you can, but that doesn't prevent your body from the abuse of the drug itself. as strateg0s said, there are better options for the educated buyer.Originally Posted by jjjd
11-30-2004, 09:06 PM
11-30-2004, 09:25 PM
Let me put it this way. My last cycle was 11 weeks long with Test Cyp throughout, D-bol for the first 4 weeks, M4OHN and 5aafor the last 4 weeks. I decided to try out my stash of M1T during week 5 and 6 at 20mg. After 4 days I dropped that to 10mgs and then dropped it all together after 8 days. I was feeling great bordering on awesome until week 5. Took me till middle of week 7 to feel right again. That said, gains went up 6 lbs during the 8 days, strength continued on an upward arc. It comes down to what you are prepared to deal with for the gains. I felt I was on enough other things to just put the M1T back in storage, due to how it made me feel, but it definately has an effect. I think in the future, my future, any use will be put at the front of cycle.
11-30-2004, 10:00 PM
Question for designer. When did you stop selling M1T and why? Thanks.Originally Posted by Designer Supps
11-30-2004, 10:22 PM
It comes down to the personal decision of reward versus risk, for me personally I know I can do just a well long term with the bread and butter 1T and 4Ad dermal without racking my body on M1T. The older you are, IMO, the less this substances' R/R ratio appears worthwhile.
All I can do is shake my head when I see the "experts" on nonanabolic boards recommending 6 to 8 weeks runs of 30 and 40 mgs, Trib and ZMA as PCT. Damn, just damn.
11-30-2004, 10:46 PM
I agree with Sledge. It's the sides you don't feel that are bad. Cholesterol levels in the single digits for any amount of time would cause a cardiologist to red flag a patient. Coupled with strenuous excercise there's a real possibility of serious, permanent cardiovascular damage.
People "bash" M1T because many of them feel like they're being poisoned on it..in fact they pretty much are.
Let's not let familiarity breed either contempt or complacency with M1T. It is a drug that needs to be kept in perspective as there is little room for error while using it.
11-30-2004, 10:51 PM
I hope we don't find M1,4add to be just as deadly...
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12-01-2004, 12:47 AM
m1t isn't deadly, per se. it's just a dangerous chemical that many people use without educating themselves on the risks and effects of abuse. oh, and m1,4ad is much gentler on you. it still isn't "good for you" but it seems to be tolerated much better with the worst side effect being bloat.
12-01-2004, 02:24 AM
Theres pros and cons, the gains come quik and easy, but its also easy to lose them.
As far as sides, i feel like ****, can't eat, always lethargic(no matter how much 4ad), barley any motivation to train, and my lowerback would be so sore i could barely train anyway.
other then that its great
12-01-2004, 09:23 AM
Bingo ! You have to treat not just M1T, but any external anabolic/androgenic with caution and respect because such products are not meant to be used as "magic substances" and they are not substitutes for years of discipline. This is where most fail, because they want quick gains/results - hey everyone wants them, right? Not bashing, I want quick gains too - they're good for for the ego...Originally Posted by Designer Supps
I've used M1T three times in the past, and I'm glad my cholesterol did not suffer. Reading all the horror stories of people that have used/abused M1T has made me aware of how dangerous it can be, but it has also made me realize that when used with caution and discipline it can give me the best gains I can get. And yes, I kept all my gains after M1T and proper PCT.
Just my 2c, sorry for the rant
12-01-2004, 10:27 AM
well I hope so, people are reporting single digit cholestrol levels from m1,4add. If the worst side is the bloat - then i'd say it's fairly safe.Originally Posted by chasec
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12-01-2004, 10:52 AM
I used M1T for 12 days to kick start my 1test cyp, Sledge Test cycle. I felt fine while I was on it, no noticeable sides other than some awesome pumps that were becoming annoying towards the end of the 12 days. I was well aware of the possible sides and the whole time I was on it and even still to this day worried about the effects it has on cholesterol. I have a few more weeks left of this cycle but I plan on getting blood work done after it is over. This may be the only time I use M1T, maybe not. But the cholesterol thing is what worries me the most about it.
12-01-2004, 10:58 AM
huh, never seen bloodwork on m1,4ad that shows single digit cholesterol levels. i'd compare it to dbol (duh, it converts to it ). dbol has been run safely and effectively for decades now; just look at ah-nuld!Originally Posted by Deoudes59
12-01-2004, 12:11 PM
For me, M1T is cheap, effective, readily available, and without question one of the more dangerous steroids available and can be easily abused or overused due to the three former reasons stated. I have committed to use it for no more than 2 time per year for no more than three weeks at a time at a dosage no more greater than 20mgs as part of the beginning of a longer cycle of other nonmethylated compounds. I always run it with 4ad and ancillaries and I do get blood work done 4 times a year every 3 months (this is done by my oncologist as I am a cancer survivor). My blood work has never demonstrated any long term problems with the liver panel or cholestrol levels after PCT was over following any cycle (thank God). I have never experienced any negative sides from M1T. For me it is one small weapon used sparingly and stategically within a much broader anabolic offensive.
This is my opinion and experience, yours may certaily be different.
12-01-2004, 01:18 PM
Good thread. The general concensus from experienced people I trust is that nothing beats a low dose M1T cycle (bang-for-the-buck). If you can get a cycle of d-bol for $9.95 I'd love to know where.
Thanks to SuperSoldier, we know how important the bloodwork is.
12-01-2004, 01:30 PM
12-01-2004, 01:34 PM
Not much, depending what you are getting done. $45 will cover all the liver stuff, another $30 for lipid profile. Check my article, linked below - search for blood tests if you already know everything else.
12-01-2004, 01:45 PM
at what point, how many weeks after a cycle, should you get your blood tests done?Originally Posted by Strateg0s
edit - and besides lipid and liver tests do you recommend anything else?
12-01-2004, 01:49 PM
12-01-2004, 02:21 PM
Questest.com is good too, in cities where Healthtestsdirect.com isn't located...
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12-01-2004, 02:33 PM
GGT is the most important liver test, so don't forget that -- and it only costs $7. Don't bother getting your testosterone level checked. "You are suppressed" "Really?" "Yes, that will be $50." "Damn!"Originally Posted by gsteclipse97
There are all kinds of tests you can get done, but what is most important is GGT, lipids, and to a lesser extent AST and ALT.
12-01-2004, 02:34 PM
His question was about post cycle bloodwork.Originally Posted by Strateg0s
Getting your test levels checked after PCT is complete and comparing the levels with baseline would be a wise choice.
12-01-2004, 02:42 PM
This thread has just brought up another major point. Seems the biggest boogey man is cholesterol. Well exactly how many people have had tests done and if you know anything about it you know how whacked those test results can be. My point is there have not been enough regular testing by enough people done to make such definitive alarming claims imho and if it's so toxic why would any reputable company sell it. I know all prohormones and prosteroids carry risk and don't think it wrong to sell them but if it's as bad as some say then you have to wonder. I guess I also have a problem with such blind loyalty to some of our "friendly vendors". Not trying to start sh*t here folks just giving an unpopular not often heard opinion.
12-01-2004, 02:57 PM
I have had tests after and before m1t cycles. as I always get tests done. The fact for me is that it dose lower hdl levels, and raises ldl levels while on, and it took the better part of 5 months for my numbers to get back to the optimal area I had them at before the cycle. SS has also ran bloodwork and has experienced the same low levels of hdl, Jayhawk is another who has had the same cholesterol sides. I am sure there are others, but this is enough to cause attention to the matter. The fact that m1t is a new compound, and there are not any pharma companies out there running tests on it as far as I know, then we are the ones finding out the sides. Most AAS has been extensively studied by health industries, such new compounds like M1t have not. That is why these supplement companies are selling it, and also for the bottom line of profits made.
12-01-2004, 03:45 PM
I would be scared if I was the one selling m1t....i can only imagine the copious amounts of lawsuits bb.com and others like legal gear will be facing when all these 18 year olds who abused m1t are having issues 2-3 yrs down the road.....
12-01-2004, 03:59 PM
Sure, that is a good point for those getting blood drawn a month or two after their cycle. Not many people are going to spend the extra money, well they might do it once just before they start their next cycle. For those testing mid- to late-cycle, they will see just how well they are tolerating it by checking liver and lipid values.Originally Posted by pu12en12g
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