what is hcg?

[BradyTP09]

Everyone keeps telling me to run hcg instead of nolva, what is it?

 

[numbaonecf25]

Everyone keeps telling me to run hcg instead of nolva, what is it?

Google the said product, simple... Help yourself out bro

 

[Lukef2000]

Everyone keeps telling me to run hcg instead of nolva, what is it?

Hcg mimics LH so your balls dont quite shrink as bad during a cycle and they still produce testosterone. Makes for an easy recovery. Don't blast it in pct either 250iu twice weekly is the way to go. Nolva, clomid or torem for pct.

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

Some people pin 500IUs per day for the last 10 days of their cycle instead of using it for pct.

 

[artvandalay]

Human chorionic gonadotropin. If the cycle is 8 weeks or less, I would use it the last week of the cycle, any cycle longer, the last two weeks. Never longer tho. Then start pct.

 

[Lukef2000]

Some people pin 500IUs per day for the last 10 days of their cycle instead of using it for pct.

Human chorionic gonadotropin. If the cycle is 8 weeks or less, I would use it the last week of the cycle, any cycle longer, the last two weeks. Never longer tho. Then start pct.

Have you fellas got any literature to back up this method? I have read numerous studies stating that 250iu twice weekly for the duration of a cycle ceasing a week before pct is the most effective way to use hcg. Anymore than this desensitizes your leydig cells.

 

[jamesm11]

There's so much broscience on this subject. I personally do last two weeks of cycle and 2 weeks while esters clear entirely (test e). 250 twice a week. Works well

 

[artvandalay]

Have you fellas got any literature to back up this method? I have read numerous studies stating that 250iu twice weekly for the duration of a cycle ceasing a week before pct is the most effective way to use hcg. Anymore than this desensitizes your leydig cells.

I was under the impression that any more than two weeks would desensitize the leydig cells. Can you cite one of those studies? I would be very interested in reading them because I would like to know more about this drug

 

[Philshred]

I was under the impression that any more than two weeks would desensitize the leydig cells. Can you cite one of those studies? I would be very interested in reading them because I would like to know more about this drug

Also interested

 

[Lukef2000]

I was under the impression that any more than two weeks would desensitize the leydig cells. Can you cite one of those studies? I would be very interested in reading them because I would like to know more about this drug

I'll have to try and dig on up when I get to my computer.

 

[Lukef2000]

I was under the impression that any more than two weeks would desensitize the leydig cells. Can you cite one of those studies? I would be very interested in reading them because I would like to know more about this drug

if you do a bit of research on this site im sure you will find the studies that im referring to. theres countless studies here that backup what im saying. http://jcem.endojournals.org

 

[chocolatemilk]

in for sources that say hCG is best used 250iu on cycle...

nobody f*cking knows how to use this sh*t bro. very little studies on it in terms of recovering full testicular stimulation relative to steroid use. theres a vague study i remember but cant pull up on someone who recovered using hCG after long term steroid use left his testes all retarded. some say on cycle some say pct. ive done both ways but i can't determine what's better since i never got bloods for both. just research it for yourself and make your own decision.

 

[Lukef2000]

in for sources that say hCG is best used 250iu on cycle...

nobody f*cking knows how to use this sh*t bro. very little studies on it in terms of recovering full testicular stimulation relative to steroid use. theres a vague study i remember but cant pull up on someone who recovered using hCG after long term steroid use left his testes all retarded. some say on cycle some say pct. ive done both ways but i can't determine what's better since i never got bloods for both. just research it for yourself and make your own decision.

I've seen that study about steroid induced azoospermia was reversed by mega dosing hCG and HMG. Good to know there's options out there if I abuse them in the future lol.

 

[heavylifter33]

Guys, how do i google?

 

[heavylifter33]

in for sources that say hCG is best used 250iu on cycle...

nobody f*cking knows how to use this sh*t bro. very little studies on it in terms of recovering full testicular stimulation relative to steroid use. theres a vague study i remember but cant pull up on someone who recovered using hCG after long term steroid use left his testes all retarded. some say on cycle some say pct. ive done both ways but i can't determine what's better since i never got bloods for both. just research it for yourself and make your own decision.

Why would you use hcg during PCT? It's suppressive...
Testosterone inhibits GnRH at the hypothalamus. Estrogen inhibits gonadotropin secretion at the pituitary.
Hcg will increase T and E2. Granted though, there is VERY little research done on hcg and most of the stuff is purely anecdotal.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Why would you use hcg during PCT? It's suppressive...
Testosterone inhibits GnRH at the hypothalamus. Estrogen inhibits gonadotropin secretion at the pituitary.
Hcg will increase T and E2. Granted though, there is VERY little research done on hcg and most of the stuff is purely anecdotal.

because all the cool kids are doing it bro

it's recommended by Dr. Michael Scally to use hCG in pct while using clomid/Nolva and continuing the serm use after the hCG for a few weeks

 

[JoeBrooklyn]

because all the cool kids are doing it bro

it's recommended by Dr. Michael Scally to use hCG in pct while using clomid/Nolva and continuing the serm use after the hCG for a few weeks

Was that a joke?

 

[alpinecoach]

My personal experience with HCG is is shot my E2 through the roof. This is a no go for me.

 

[Matthersby]

You know that the hcg is what elevated your E2?

 

[heavylifter33]

because all the cool kids are doing it bro

it's recommended by Dr. Michael Scally to use hCG in pct while using clomid/Nolva and continuing the serm use after the hCG for a few weeks

For your sake i hope you're joking haha.

 

[chocolatemilk]

For your sake i hope you're joking haha.

i'm not

last i was foruming he was reputable.. what am i missing

 

[heavylifter33]

Have you not read my posts in the thread? hcg is suppressive and will elevate E2, not something we want during PCT. hcg is beneficial on cycle.

 

[artvandalay]

Have you not read my posts in the thread? hcg is suppressive and will elevate E2, not something we want during PCT. hcg is beneficial on cycle.

So at what point in a cycle would you begin use?

 

[alpinecoach]

You know that the hcg is what elevated your E2?

Best guess is yes. I introduced the HCG mid cycle, was not having any E2 problems until introduction, sides went away when I discontinued use. So yes, I feel I can safely say it was the HCG.

 

[heavylifter33]

So at what point in a cycle would you begin use?

Lots of factors there bud: compounds being used, length of cycle, your endocrine system...

 

[Husker89]

ya i agree, thats called anecdotal evidence, which isnt good at all in the science world just saying

Lots of factors there bud: compounds being used, length of cycle, your endocrine system...

 

[heavylifter33]

ya i agree, thats called anecdotal evidence, which isnt good at all in the science world just saying

I don't follow your post...What is anecdotal about my posts? Not to mention hcg is not the most studied thing around.

 

[Husker89]

not you the post you responded too I was AGREEING WITH YOU LOL

 

[heavylifter33]

not you the post you responded too I was AGREEING WITH YOU LOL

Ya sorry haha sometimes the quoting around here goes askew.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Have you not read my posts in the thread? hcg is suppressive and will elevate E2, not something we want during PCT. hcg is beneficial on cycle.

oh I thought you had something better...

you do realize there is more studies done on hCG restoring testes post cycle and hCG curing hypogonadism than there is any piece of literature which shows that hCG on cycle makes you recover faster right?

 

[chocolatemilk]

see red below

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20188494

Men may be reluctant to disclose both prior AAS use and current sexual impairment if not carefully and non-judgmentally asked (Brower, 2002), and they may be unaware that they are hypogonadal unless tested (Kanayamaet al., 2007a). If hypogonadism is discovered, it may require evaluation and treatment by an endocrinologist, who might use HCG to accelerate the testicular production of testosterone (Medrasand Tworowska, 2001; Menon, 2003; Repcekova and Mikulaj,1977; Turek et al., 1995), perhaps supplemented with clomiphene to stimulate pituitary function (Guay et al., 2003; Santen, 1981;Tan et al., 2009; Tan and Vasudevan, 2003; Winters et al., 1979;Winters and Troen, 1985). One group experienced in treating AAS-induced hypogonadism (Tan and Scally, 2009) has used HCG, clomiphene, and tamoxifen collectively for varying time courses to treat AAS-induced hypogonadism.

recognize the name Scally? he's the person i first mentioned... Dr. Michael Scally who succesfully treats people who are hypogonadic from steroids or other causes with hCG and serms... so yeah i think i'll go with the Dr.'s advice and since there is more research on using it post-cycle which i have at home.

now sir, please find me one peice of literature to support your view that using hCG is benefical on cycle... that men have high T levels (not using test as the roid obv) or elevated testicular volume due to using hCG, doses, and quicker recovery than non-hCG users. people are running 250-500iu on cycle like its bible and it works... show me some literature on that rhadam since you believe in it

 

[DelaRone]

see red below

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20188494



recognize the name Scally? he's the person i first mentioned... Dr. Michael Scally who succesfully treats people who are hypogonadic from steroids or other causes with hCG and serms... so yeah i think i'll go with the Dr.'s advice and since there is more research on using it post-cycle which i have at home.

now sir, please find me one peice of literature to support your view that using hCG is benefical on cycle... that men have high T levels (not using test as the roid obv) or elevated testicular volume due to using hCG, doses, and quicker recovery than non-hCG users. people are running 250-500iu on cycle like its bible and it works... show me some literature on that rhadam since you believe in it

OWNAGE! lol

 

[jamesm11]

OWNAGE! lol

Not really. Just because a study proves what he says is true doesn't make the other method bunk. It disproves nothing, only proves another method.

The method most use on cycle isn't studied because it offers no benefit to most, that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Bloods and anecdotal evidence prove otherwise in most cases.

 

[Husker89]

what bloods and what anecdotal evidence???

Not really. Just because a study proves what he says is true doesn't make the other method bunk. It disproves nothing, only proves another method.

The method most use on cycle isn't studied because it offers no benefit to most, that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Bloods and anecdotal evidence prove otherwise in most cases.

 

[jamesm11]

what bloods and what anecdotal evidence???

Ive done bloods with and without hcg. I've also felt the effects. Many other logs have as well.

Again, lack of evidence doesn't disprove anything. Not sure why people continue to use that argument

 

[Husker89]

there is no evidence that keebler elves dont exist so THATS WHY I USE EVIDENCE TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS BASED ON EVIDENCE, NOT THE LACK OF ME DISPROVING YOUR THEORY

Ive done bloods with and without hcg. I've also felt the effects. Many other logs have as well.

Again, lack of evidence doesn't disprove anything. Not sure why people continue to use that argument

 

[jamesm11]

there is no evidence that keebler elves dont exist so THATS WHY I USE EVIDENCE TO MAKE INFORMED DECISIONS BASED ON EVIDENCE, NOT THE LACK OF ME DISPROVING YOUR THEORY

Jesus you're dumb. One is based on blood work I had done and numerous others' blood work. Also there's scientific theory that supports the hypothesis.

Your analogy is incorrect and stupid, but what can I expect from someone like you who regularly is wrong and rude.

Call whatever school you went to and ask for your money back, they obviously failed in teaching you.

 

[chocolatemilk]

Not really. Just because a study proves what he says is true doesn't make the other method bunk. It disproves nothing, only proves another method.

The method most use on cycle isn't studied because it offers no benefit to most, that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Bloods and anecdotal evidence prove otherwise in most cases.

read my first post... i said nobody knows how to use it because there is such little research although there is more research on it used post cycle for recovery. i didn't disprove using it on cycle that's why i asked for literature on why anyone thinks its beneficial on cycle... there isn't

250-500 iu is such a low dose. people fear of desensitizing when Dr's and researchers are giving out 10,000 ius daily for some males. i think the whole 250-500 iu on cycle needs to be re thought. there is no literature to support that it does anything at all

anyone who takes a side on this debate as if they are right is an idiot

 

[chocolatemilk]

james11 I'd be interested to see all this blood work you've done and seen on the forums which indicate positive effects from hCG on cycle... srs

 

[jamesm11]

read my first post... i said nobody knows how to use it because there is such little research although there is more research on it used post cycle for recovery. i didn't disprove using it on cycle that's why i asked for literature on why anyone thinks its beneficial on cycle... there isn't

250-500 iu is such a low dose. people fear of desensitizing when Dr's and researchers are giving out 10,000 ius daily for some males. i think the whole 250-500 iu on cycle needs to be re thought. there is no literature to support that it does anything at all

anyone who takes a side on this debate as if they are right is an idiot

I agree with your study. I know it's proven and used with clomiphene by doctors.

I usually blast 1000iu a day for a week or so, seems to work for me. But with DAA, Nolva/Clomid, sustain alpha, erase, toco 8, and lean extreme I cover everything during PCT

 

[chocolatemilk]

I agree with your study. I know it's proven and used with clomiphene by doctors.

I usually blast 1000iu a day for a week or so, seems to work for me. But with DAA, Nolva/Clomid, sustain alpha, erase, toco 8, and lean extreme I cover everything during PCT

fair enough.. I blast alongside clomid for a couple weeks as well

 

[Thomasxavier]

...So since no one can decide whether it's best used for 2 weeks at the end of the cycle, or two weeks after the cycle, the solution is clear!

1 week at end of cycle, and 1 week after cycle!

 

[chocolatemilk]

...So since no one can decide whether it's best used for 2 weeks at the end of the cycle, or two weeks after the cycle, the solution is clear!

1 week at end of cycle, and 1 week after cycle!

that's not the issue

it's whether to use it on cycle for the duration of the cycle or in the beginning of pct

 

[chocolatemilk]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2360778/

Anabolic steroid induced hypogonadism treated with human chorionic gonadotropin

"Hypogonadism returned, but was successfully treated with weekly injections of human chorionic gonadotropin for three months. Testicular function remained normal thereafter on no treatment. The use of human chorionic gonadotropin should be considered in prolonged hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism due to anabolic steroid abuse."

 

[Thomasxavier]

that's not the issue

it's whether to use it on cycle for the duration of the cycle or in the beginning of pct

Actually it was lol you use it one week at the end of the cycle and one week at the beginning of PCT !

I agree with you though that HCG is used for recovery. I know an endocrinologist in my town, they have explicitly stated that they use HCG to increase sperm count for people who have discontinued Testosterone replacement therapy to help them have a child

 

[Husker89]

but you still havent proven keenler elves dont exist. See how that argument gets old fast?

Jesus you're dumb. One is based on blood work I had done and numerous others' blood work. Also there's scientific theory that supports the hypothesis.

Your analogy is incorrect and stupid, but what can I expect from someone like you who regularly is wrong and rude.

Call whatever school you went to and ask for your money back, they obviously failed in teaching you.

 

[jamesm11]

but you still havent proven keenler elves dont exist. See how that argument gets old fast?

Why are you so stupid? The hcg argument is based Ina scientific hypothesis and has real science to back up why it has been hypothesized.

You argument is without ANY merit. That's very different.

 

[DelaRone]

Why are you so stupid? The hcg argument is based Ina scientific hypothesis and has real science to back up why it has been hypothesized.

You argument is without ANY merit. That's very different.

and yet all you have to offer is your personal opinion, bloods & other logs you have yet to prove even exist......hmmm....

 

[jamesm11]

and yet all you have to offer is your personal opinion, bloods & other logs you have yet to prove even exist......hmmm....

Use the search function, some of us have careers.

There's dozens of logs on many forums with blood posted regularly. Takes less than a minute to search.

But I thank your for 0 contribution

 

[DelaRone]

Use the search function, some of us have careers.

There's dozens of logs on many forums with blood posted regularly. Takes less than a minute to search.

But I thank your for 0 contribution

I have 2, lol. You're saying all the right things but your words have no substance. You were asked to prove your point, you can't, end of story. Which brings me back to my original statement....OWNAGE. lol. Stick to your career instead of making proclamtions you can't even be bothered to back up, it makes you look like a douche bag.