Suicide Inhibiter vs Nolva

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    Frank, if that is your experience then your labs you use are ****. I know this stuff happens, but with a good source and a good supplier the deviation from batch to batch should be extremely small. My guy that I use as well as my close friends is always spot on. Our labs come out nearly identical every time with respect to the dose we are using. I know we can't test all the compounds, but if the test is consistent, it is likely his other stuff is too. I have had zero complaints since I started using him. However, I have dealt with quite a few labs that have been very spotty so just keep looking and you'll find a good one.

    Joe, an attitude like you have right now will get you far in this game. This kind of stuff gets really frustrating to guys like Rodja and I (no offense), but if you can sit there and take it like a champ (and you are doing just that) you will learn a lot. We won't spoon feed you everything, but if you do your research and you come back with questions that have showed you're doing your homework, I will have no problem answering questions and I'm sure Rodja feels the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jt339
    Frank, if that is your experience then your labs you use are ****. I know this stuff happens, but with a good source and a good supplier the deviation from batch to batch should be extremely small. My guy that I use as well as my close friends is always spot on. Our labs come out nearly identical every time with respect to the dose we are using. I know we can't test all the compounds, but if the test is consistent, it is likely his other stuff is too. I have had zero complaints since I started using him. However, I have dealt with quite a few labs that have been very spotty so just keep looking and you'll find a good one.

    Joe, an attitude like you have right now will get you far in this game. This kind of stuff gets really frustrating to guys like Rodja and I (no offense), but if you can sit there and take it like a champ (and you are doing just that) you will learn a lot.
    Lol I do just fine

    If you and a friend are using the same gear no **** your "labs" should come out close.

    The fact is that doesn't tell you the concentration. The fact is you have no clue to that.

    Secondly most people are using mass produced garbage. Not small private labs

    Again back before ORD when people could test gear you'd see the large variations in batches. This hasn't changed.

    And I'm not saying it's all underdossd. Sometimes it's overdosed. My point is we have no clue.

    The point was if you're splitting hairs on ester weights you may as well understand that 250mg might be 275, 215,etc . could be anything.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Lol I do just fine

    If you and a friend are using the same gear no **** your "labs" should come out close.


    The fact is that doesn't tell you the concentration. The fact is you have no clue to that.
    I have tested my bloods through various different labs. My current one matches the dose for a given concentration (roughly) every time. Every other lab I have used at the current dose has either tested about the same as this one or lower. The difference is, this one has an extremely small deviation and always comes out to about the same where a lot of the other ones tend to fluctuate more. I normally use 700 a week and that puts my total test around 5200.


    Secondly most people are using mass produced garbage. Not small private labs
    Won't deny that. I can think of a large amount of big labs that are ****, but still make money.

    Again back before ORD when people could test gear you'd see the large variations in batches. This hasn't changed.
    I can't disprove this as I haven't tested anything other than test, but my current guy has produced the best of every kind of gear I have ever tried.

    And I'm not saying it's all underdossd. Sometimes it's overdosed. My point is we have no clue.
    I have never seen over dosed gear, personally. You should have a clue on test as you can still test this.

    The point was if you're splitting hairs on ester weights you may as well understand that 250mg might be 275, 215,etc . could be anything.
    If it is produced properly, about 75% of test enth is actual test and 84% of prop is actual test. I can't speculate on the others as I have not looked into them.

    Gotta go study. Will be back to discuss later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt339

    I have tested my bloods through various different labs. My current one matches the dose for a given concentration (roughly) every time. Every other lab I have used at the current dose has either tested about the same as this one or lower. The difference is, this one has an extremely small deviation and always comes out to about the same where a lot of the other ones tend to fluctuate more. I normally use 700 a week and that puts my total test around 5200.

    Won't deny that. I can think of a large amount of big labs that are ****, but still make money.

    I can't disprove this as I haven't tested anything other than test, but my current guy has produced the best of every kind of gear I have ever tried.
    I'm not talking about blood test. I'm talking about the ability to test the finished product for exact concentration. Before ORD we had the ability to have gear tested.

    Blood tests are good for consistency and rough approximations but not going to give you specifics.

    There are some very good, consistent small labs. But even with them you'll see variations. It's not exact. If they're good it might be off an amount that is insignificant.

    To reiterate.... we don't know. And that was the point.

    I have seen pharmaceutical gear off 10-20mg.

    If you've ever used icn's each amp is over filled to 1.2-1.3ml. So either the concentration is off or the total amount of gear is off.
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    Thank you jt, i just started with this two cycles ago. Before that i tried PH and had a horrible experience. I dont know how old you guys are but i am 43 and before 3 years ago i body builded for years and never used anything. I only turned to test and aas now because as you know as you get older your test levels are less and you cant build the way you did when you were younger. By the same token, at natural levels of only 500 test which is mormal at my age, any shut down can cause serious libido problems and at my age i need all the help with libido i can get.
    I am not in the medical field so all this is Greek to me. I am an accountant and im good with numbers and stats and taxes but this area i have alot to learn so bare with my ignorance.
    On another note, being that we are now accepting gay marriage, marajuana im still baffled by our societys aversion for test and aas. Why not let us take it? Body builders should for a PAC.
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    Just got my blood work back. My test levels are 630 and prolactin is 14.
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    Steroids only became illegal after athletes were using it to get an advantage in sports. If I recall correctly, that legislation was passed very quickly and no new research had come out about the "dangers" of use. So basically, they were made illegal not because of their effects on the body (well known for 30-40 years), but because it gave athletes an advantage. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that is pretty close to accurate if it isn't completely.

    Prolactin is a little higher than what I would want. I'd definitely shoot for single digits, low single digits would be even better.
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    Isnt the point of sports to be the best? Tiger Woods had eye surgery to make his eye sight better than 20/20, should they ban that? Besides, if the sports orgs want to ban it for the sports, thats their business, 85% of people who use are not pro athletes.
    I didnt check for estrogen because i didnt know that low estrogen was bad. But i had another blood test and they will now test for estrogen and cholseterol.
    For the prolactin reading of 14, i have Caber on hand to use.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Running nolva with a 19-nor is fine. When will people stop regurgitating the same old nonsense.
    Yeah its fine allright but it doesnt do u any favors if u r experiencing sides from prolactin/progestrone.

    I dont understand why the hell should people eat nolva with 19nors just for the reason "its fine". Control your estros and keep Caber in hand when doing 19nors
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post
    Isnt the point of sports to be the best? Tiger Woods had eye surgery to make his eye sight better than 20/20, should they ban that? Besides, if the sports orgs want to ban it for the sports, thats their business, 85% of people who use are not pro athletes.
    I didnt check for estrogen because i didnt know that low estrogen was bad. But i had another blood test and they will now test for estrogen and cholseterol.
    For the prolactin reading of 14, i have Caber on hand to use.
    I believe it was the Olympics in 1988 when the guy who won tested positive for winstrol (i think). If it happened in golf, I doubt anyone would have cared, but the whole world was watching so they figured they had to do something.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    **** we can take it a step further and say if you are using UG aas than the concentration should be looked at as an arbitrary number. You don't know if that 300mg/ml is 150 or 350(for example). It's only a reflection of what's in that specific batch/bottle.

    You think you are taking 600mg a week. Maybe you are taking 400,maybe 700.

    Who knows.

    I think this is where experience comes in.
    So true, I see this all the time and half to laugh. Unless your using RX grade, absolutely no testing has ben done to verify actual dose. In luwellans book, he conducted actual lab test on UG products, and the actual dosage is all over the map. As far as using Nolva is concerned, you can certainly use it to prevent Gyno during times of high E2(while on cycle). There are benifits to this, as Nolva does not play hell on your colesterol. You need to weigh the risk reward of ANY substance you put in your body.


    Joe, Do yourself a favor, buy Luwellan's book and read, it will make things much clearer for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwarrior View Post
    Yeah its fine allright but it doesnt do u any favors if u r experiencing sides from prolactin/progestrone.

    I dont understand why the hell should people eat nolva with 19nors just for the reason "its fine". Control your estros and keep Caber in hand when doing 19nors
    Warwarrior,
    I have caber on hand.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jt339 View Post
    I believe it was the Olympics in 1988 when the guy who won tested positive for winstrol (i think). If it happened in golf, I doubt anyone would have cared, but the whole world was watching so they figured they had to do something.
    But again, who cares if the world is watching. If they want to ban it for athletes, let them. Why take away everyone's rights?
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinecoach View Post
    So true, I see this all the time and half to laugh. Unless your using RX grade, absolutely no testing has ben done to verify actual dose. In luwellans book, he conducted actual lab test on UG products, and the actual dosage is all over the map. As far as using Nolva is concerned, you can certainly use it to prevent Gyno during times of high E2(while on cycle). There are benifits to this, as Nolva does not play hell on your colesterol. You need to weigh the risk reward of ANY substance you put in your body.

    Joe, Do yourself a favor, buy Luwellan's book and read, it will make things much clearer for you.
    I just looked it up. Anabolics 2002?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwarrior View Post
    Yeah its fine allright but it doesnt do u any favors if u r experiencing sides from prolactin/progestrone.

    I dont understand why the hell should people eat nolva with 19nors just for the reason "its fine". Control your estros and keep Caber in hand when doing 19nors
    Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

    I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

    I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

    You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

    I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

    I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

    You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
    Frank, I just got my blood work back and my Prolactin levels are at 14. While my doc says normal for a man is 2-17, someone mentioned in this thread that I should try to get to single digits. If caber is not the way, what is the way to lower prolactin?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post
    Frank, I just got my blood work back and my Prolactin levels are at 14. While my doc says normal for a man is 2-17, someone mentioned in this thread that I should try to get to single digits. If caber is not the way, what is the way to lower prolactin?
    Why are you trying to lower it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

    I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

    I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

    You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
    Not convinced by that post of yours. I can tell u not a doctor or even a bright person so definitely not gonna keep this up with u.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Why are you trying to lower it?
    Because I'm told that I want to be in the single digits. Besides, prolactin is what prevents you from getting an immediate erection after you ejaculate, so the less prolactin the better. Why, do you think 14 is a good number?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warwarrior View Post
    Not convinced by that post of yours. I can tell u not a doctor or even a bright person so definitely not gonna keep this up with u.
    Dude you can't even type in coherent sentences..lol "I can tell u not a doctor" Are you a caveman?

    I really don't care if you are convinced or not. You are faceless moron on the internet. haha

    Read this thread, maybe you will come away with some new knowledge. Pay attention to the posts by Seth Roberts. He wrote a book on Anabolic Pharmacology. Maybe he is qualified.
    Progesterone and Prolactin

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post
    Because I'm told that I want to be in the single digits. Besides, prolactin is what prevents you from getting an immediate erection after you ejaculate, so the less prolactin the better. Why, do you think 14 is a good number?
    Why are you concerned by a number? Are you having issues? Or are you trying to lower a number for the sake of lowering it.
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    I'm not having issues at this moment as I've been off for almost 8 weeks now. When I was 20 I could cum and 2-3 minutes later get another erection and rock n roll. I am now 43, after I cum now, I have to wait 15-20 minutes. So if I can lower Prolactin to help me out on this why not? And again I ask, is 14 a good number?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Dude you can't even type in coherent sentences..lol "I can tell u not a doctor" Are you a caveman?

    I really don't care if you are convinced or not. You are faceless moron on the internet. haha

    Read this thread, maybe you will come away with some new knowledge. Pay attention to the posts by Seth Roberts. He wrote a book on Anabolic Pharmacology. Maybe he is qualified.
    And you are brainless moron on the internet. Which is better...go figure. Haha

    Thanks for the thread boy!
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post
    I'm not having issues at this moment as I've been off for almost 8 weeks now. When I was 20 I could cum and 2-3 minutes later get another erection and rock n roll. I am now 43, after I cum now, I have to wait 15-20 minutes. So if I can lower Prolactin to help me out on this why not? And again I ask, is 14 a good number?
    I don't see the point of running caber if you are not having issues climaxing, or other prolactin induced side effects. Your numbers are not clinically elevated.

    I guess I am of the school of thought "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I try and run the least amount of **** possible.

    Again, this is just my opinion. You need to figure out what makes the most sense to you, and apply it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    I don't see the point of running caber if you are not having issues climaxing, or other prolactin induced side effects. Your numbers are not clinically elevated.

    I guess I am of the school of thought "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". I try and run the least amount of **** possible.

    Again, this is just my opinion. You need to figure out what makes the most sense to you, and apply it.
    My philosophy is why be average? I'm an ex Infantryman, my motto is be all you can be. How old are you if you dont mind me asking?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post
    My philosophy is why be average? I'm an ex Infantryman, my motto is be all you can be. How old are you if you dont mind me asking?
    30.

    As I said you need to do what you feel comfortable with. If you feel running additional compounds is going to help you, then do so.

    I mean with that mentality, why not run 2g of test a week, and a gram of tren? Why be average?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    30.

    As I said you need to do what you feel comfortable with. If you feel running additional compounds is going to help you, then do so.

    I mean with that mentality, why not run 2g of test a week, and a gram of tren? Why be average?
    30 was a great age. I was jerking off 3 or 4 times a day and I could have sex 5 or 6 times. Today, I can last longer and control my ejaculations better but 2 or 3 times is more than enough in one sex session now. The days of 5 times in one session are over. And as we get older it only gets worse. Talk to me when you are 40 and let me know how you're proforming. If you're like me, you will be ok; but I dont want to be ok.

    As for running 2g of test a week and a gram of tren, in that case more is not better. But if I'm wrong, please correct me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post

    As for running 2g of test a week and a gram of tren, in that case more is not better. But if I'm wrong, please correct me.
    If you don't wanna be average, than run what the freaks run..haha My point is you need to draw the line somewhere, with all of this stuff.

    Let me ask this. If this is something you need to run indefinitely to get, and keep this desired effect, is it worth the potential cardiac risks to be able to "recover" a few min quicker? If you take it, and still don't recover faster, then what?

    But to reiterate, if YOU feel it is worth it, then do it. I am just saying for ME, I like to run the least amount of **** as I can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    If you don't wanna be average, than run what the freaks run..haha My point is you need to draw the line somewhere, with all of this stuff.

    Let me ask this. If this is something you need to run indefinitely to get, and keep this desired effect, is it worth the potential cardiac risks to be able to "recover" a few min quicker? If you take it, and still don't recover faster, then what?

    But to reiterate, if YOU feel it is worth it, then do it. I am just saying for ME, I like to run the least amount of **** as I can.
    What do the freaks run? I'm not being sarcastic, I'm really just asking. As for the cardiac issue. They show up with extreme abuse. I'm talking about a normal dosage which is a half a pill (50mg i think I have to check) every four days for 4 weeks. If it doesnt work, well, next...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Because it will also wipe out gyno when on those compounds. I thought my point was clear. You stop estrogen from binding to the receptor you stop gyno, even if you are running 19-nors.

    I would rather run 10mg of Nolva and a very low dose AI to manage estrogen than introduce a dopamine agonist such as caber.

    I can tell you I am speaking from experience, while you are just parroting misinformation. I have used this protocol with numerous people, with success. Believe what you want.

    You can run caber if you like, I am not trying to stop you..lol
    This is exactly what I do 10mg Nolva/day & 25mg Adex 2x/week, best of both world in my opinion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post
    As for the cardiac issue. They show up with extreme abuse. I'm talking about a normal dosage which is a half a pill (50mg i think I have to check) every four days for 4 weeks. If it doesnt work, well, next...
    With caber it isn't extreme abuse, read the statistics.

    What makes you think 4 weeks will do the trick? Your prolactin might come right back up to where it is now, upon stopping. It could be something you always need to run to mange it.

    This could be YOUR normal range. That is my point. You are treating a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

    Do you have a history of prolactin test results?

    I was just giving you my opinion on the subject. Caber on my friend!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    With caber it isn't extreme abuse, read the statistics.

    What makes you think 4 weeks will do the trick? Your prolactin might come right back up to where it is now, upon stopping. It could be something you always need to run to mange it.

    This could be YOUR normal range. That is my point. You are treating a problem that doesn't seem to exist.

    Do you have a history of prolactin test results?

    I was just giving you my opinion on the subject. Caber on my friend!
    Frank, I have read the stats and although I admit that I have not done a whole lot of research what I have read is that only those who take large amounts have developed this and those would be people that suffer from Parkenson's Disease which is what Caber is used for. I dont believe there are studies on short small uses. But I may be wrong.
    4 weeks is the amount prescribed. I don't know that it will do the trick I can only rely on people who are much smarter than me like Dan Duchane and others who have used it. I'm sure it doesnt work the same for everyone. I have heard of a person who took it and it had a negligable affect. But it's worth a try.
    I'm under no illusions that once I stop taking it my prolactin levels will not go back up; but you can say the same thing about testosterone and aas.
    As for a problem that doesnt exist, it may not now; but when you're on Deca I can tell you from experience it does exist. After 3 weeks of test and deca my levels of prolactin were 17.
    Yes, I do have a person history of prolactin test results. 3 weeks into my test and deca cycle my levels went to 17.
    I appreciate your opinion very much and please don't stop because I may very well be all wet, I'm still learning and have no problem being challenged as long as it's done respectfully.
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    Frank Reynolds's Avatar
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    How is Dan Duchane doing these days? haha

    But seriously, best of luck.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    How is Dan Duchane doing these days? haha

    But seriously, best of luck.
    LOL!! Very funny, you know he died of a congenital problem; but thank you for the good wishes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinecoach View Post
    This is exactly what I do 10mg Nolva/day & 25mg Adex 2x/week, best of both world in my opinion.
    I wouldn't call that a very low dose of AI...
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    That should have read .25mg.
    "Pain is weakness leaving the body"
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    You're attributing too much on the class of AI instead of the dose and you were running so much that it is impossible to pinpoint the cause of anything.



    Did you get blood work to prove this or were you going off of "feel." Also, you're making the mistake of thinking estrogen is the devil without realizing there are benefits to estrogen and the aromatization amounts vary from person to person.
    I got my new blood work and asked for Estrogen test and the doctor says that the lab said the blood needs to be drawn at the lab, so I need to be refered to them. So I still dont know what my Estrogen levels are, what I do know at this point is:
    Total Test: 630
    Prolacton: 14
    Arteries clear
    Bad Choesterol: 213
    Good Cholseterol:30
    The blood work for cholseteral was done without fasting.
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    I got my estrogen tests back. They are 2959 pg/ml. WTF??? What do I do?
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    Yup... I'd reduce my prolactin to single digits - caber or prami. I'd bring the estrogen down with Anastrazole and/or Aromasin. Take those down.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThyBroker View Post
    Yup... I'd reduce my prolactin to single digits - caber or prami. I'd bring the estrogen down with Anastrazole and/or Aromasin. Take those down.
    I'm using Letro right now and Caber for 7 days. My libido is still very low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeBrooklyn View Post
    I'm using Letro right now and Caber for 7 days. My libido is still very low.
    Ok, I think you might be pushing estrogen to low and the problem with letro when you stop will be rebound estrogen then too high. I'd stop the letro only for 4 days or so and watch my libido, if it comes up and then drops you know you just need to bring the estrogen down a little with a suicide inhibitor like aromasin - not too much or you go too low again and then stuck low for couple weeks while your body makes more aromatase enzyme, but if you do just a little at a time and then stop when the libido shows up promptly = you threaded the needle and mission accomplished. Let me know how it goes, I
  

  
 

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